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Mountain Goat
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24 Aug 2019, 4:41 pm

I can't really describe it. Somehow I often feel that I don't fit in.

I feel that I am on the fringes of society. I don't even want to fit in. I don't want to be normal. I don't like to be normal. I just want to be me. I am me. But me is lonely. Me is the only one.

But here is something I find wierd. Even on a site full of "Me's" I feel different. I feel when I am assessed, they will have to invent a new catagory for me as to classify me as asperges or autistic will group me in with other "Me's" where I am too different to fit the catagory?

Or is this the point? Is this what the autistic spectrum really is? It may not neccessarily be all about shutdowns, meltdowns and features like this, but more about the being very different so one can't find a slot to fit into where the real problems start?
It is why I really hate these modern forms. I can't fill them in. Years ago, every question had a written description to fill in below the question. Today there is just "Yes/No" boxes. I can never truthfully answer yes or no. I am often stumped at the first few questions as I don't fit either answer. Why I can't fill in forms that well. I stare at the form for hours unable to make the correct decision which will allow me to have peace about my answer. These days even if I was to get a trillion pounds to fill in the form, if I hit such a question I'd be stumped and never send the form off to claim the winnings!

Oh, how I long for this life to be simple again. Why do we try to fit everyone into a box? Why can't my box have a hole for my head to stick out and holes for my arms and legs to stick out so I am not claustrophobic? Boxes are claustrophobic.


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ToughDiamond
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24 Aug 2019, 5:19 pm

Well yes, being on the spectrum means you're likely to be more unique than the average NT, and we do live in a society that mass-produces a lot of things and very often assumes that one size fits all. Naturally, having an unusual set of interests is going to make it hard to relate to most people and vice versa. When I spend time with mainstream society I usually feel I'm at best just treading water, keeping my discomfort down to a minimum and barely getting any fun out of it at all.

I get what you're saying about forms with their rigid insistence on yes / no answers. I can't fill them in honestly because for me the truth is much more nuanced than the allowed answers can ever be. I can't understand how anybody can answer those reductionist questionnaires with a straight face. But I don't know that every Aspie here has the same trouble.

Feeling different even on a site full of "Me's," I guess that's common simply because it's a spectrum disorder. For example I would think it's rare that any two people around here would have the exact same special interests. Maybe it's also common that individuals feel that everybody else in a group is relating really well and that they're the only odd one out.



Mona Pereth
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24 Aug 2019, 5:35 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
I can't really describe it. Somehow I often feel that I don't fit in.

I feel that I am on the fringes of society. I don't even want to fit in. I don't want to be normal. I don't like to be normal. I just want to be me. I am me. But me is lonely. Me is the only one.

But here is something I find wierd. Even on a site full of "Me's" I feel different. I feel when I am assessed, they will have to invent a new catagory for me as to classify me as asperges or autistic will group me in with other "Me's" where I am too different to fit the catagory?

Or is this the point? Is this what the autistic spectrum really is? It may not neccessarily be all about shutdowns, meltdowns and features like this, but more about the being very different so one can't find a slot to fit into where the real problems start?

Yep. Autistic people are as different from each other as we are from NT's.

As far as I can tell, autism is all about being a neurological freak -- and there is no end of different ways we can be freaky. For example, some of us have sensory sensitivities, while others have sensory under-sensitivities, and still others have both w.r.t. different senses. Some of us are oblivious to others' feelings unless they are very obvious, while others are hyper-aware of, and overwhelmed by, others' feelings. Some of us have a strong tendency to hypefocus and have difficulty shifting our attention, while others have extreme difficulty shutting out sensory distractions. And so on.

NTs are fundamentally alike in ways that we (and other neurodivergent people) are not.

Mountain Goat wrote:
It is why I really hate these modern forms. I can't fill them in. Years ago, every question had a written description to fill in below the question. Today there is just "Yes/No" boxes. I can never truthfully answer yes or no. I am often stumped at the first few questions as I don't fit either answer. Why I can't fill in forms that well. I stare at the form for hours unable to make the correct decision which will allow me to have peace about my answer. These days even if I was to get a trillion pounds to fill in the form, if I hit such a question I'd be stumped and never send the form off to claim the winnings!

Oh, how I long for this life to be simple again. Why do we try to fit everyone into a box?

So the bureaucracies can save money in an obvious way. Because database tables with fields containing simple enumerated values take up much less room on disk than database tables with fields containing free-form strings of text. Also, database fields containing simple enumerated values are much easier for any algorithm to process. And, of course, saving a penny in such obvious costs is worth thousands of dollars/pounds/whatever in more hidden costs....

Mountain Goat wrote:
Why can't my box have a hole for my head to stick out and holes for my arms and legs to stick out so I am not claustrophobic? Boxes are claustrophobic.

This is yet another of the many, many reasons why we need a much bigger and better-organized autistic community (subculture) than now exists. The autistic community, once sufficiently organized with a wide variety of overlapping small subgroups, would be the kind of oddball subculture that would be exceedingly aware of our individuality.


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Mountain Goat
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24 Aug 2019, 5:46 pm

Uhmmm. So I probably am no where near being an NT then. I assumed I maybe sitting on the fence inbetween both aspects.

I almost am not sure what an NT is anymore. Except they may go to work, come home, go to the pub, get drunk, go to sleep, have a hangover when they get up... Then go back to work and say "Never again will I get drunk"... Then they repeat the whole process again and again and again... Is that typical NT life? Or are NT's also on their own spectrum!

Oh dear. I have complicated things further haven't I? Haha!


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madbutnotmad
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24 Aug 2019, 6:01 pm

Having ASD does make it harder to "fit in" with NT's and perhaps fitting in period
i think that fitting in and feeling connected can be two different things

as the fitting in relies on others acceptance of us
where as feeling connected relies on our perception or state of mind

so we can not fit in but still be connected regardless, as the NTs that reject us have no control over the universe

I think that feeling connected is a state of mind that needs to be cultivated though
as being alienated is also, or happens because we accidentally cultivate being alienated (the more we dwell on our dislocation from others, the more we become aware, the more we isolate).

As for fitting in, i recon some people simply dont fit in due to looks and behaviours, and moral values
there are people in society who are less judging, who hold moral values, who are more kind.

And then there are others, who have the same ailments as ourselves or people who work with people who have these problems who are more understanding.

From personal experience, i seldom feel like i fit in, or worse still fool myself for short periods only to find out yet again that the person who i thought was really honest, objective and not a douche bag, turns out to be a douche bag.
Usually after one of the other douche bags turns up and influences that individual to start acting like a douche too
peer pressure, gang bullying, covert sadism, i cant say. i just know that's what happens.

But there ya go. we aspergers often become like rolling stones, rolling from one bad circumstance to another.
but nevermind.

as for feeling connected. sure, when it comes to intimate relationships, there are moments of connectedness
but which can dissipate shortly after. as the mind of partners do not sit still, and the connection is lost
if the connection was ever there. i guess it is something that is elusive that we will never be able to tell if it really exists or not. but there ya go. I guess we will have to wait to ask God about that...



BDavro
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24 Aug 2019, 6:06 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
I can't really describe it. Somehow I often feel that I don't fit in.

I feel that I am on the fringes of society. I don't even want to fit in. I don't want to be normal. I don't like to be normal. I just want to be me. I am me. But me is lonely. Me is the only one.

But here is something I find wierd. Even on a site full of "Me's" I feel different. I feel when I am assessed, they will have to invent a new catagory for me as to classify me as asperges or autistic will group me in with other "Me's" where I am too different to fit the catagory?

Or is this the point? Is this what the autistic spectrum really is? It may not neccessarily be all about shutdowns, meltdowns and features like this, but more about the being very different so one can't find a slot to fit into where the real problems start?
It is why I really hate these modern forms. I can't fill them in. Years ago, every question had a written description to fill in below the question. Today there is just "Yes/No" boxes. I can never truthfully answer yes or no. I am often stumped at the first few questions as I don't fit either answer. Why I can't fill in forms that well. I stare at the form for hours unable to make the correct decision which will allow me to have peace about my answer. These days even if I was to get a trillion pounds to fill in the form, if I hit such a question I'd be stumped and never send the form off to claim the winnings!

Oh, how I long for this life to be simple again. Why do we try to fit everyone into a box? Why can't my box have a hole for my head to stick out and holes for my arms and legs to stick out so I am not claustrophobic? Boxes are claustrophobic.


I don't know you, I've only read a few of your posts but you are someone I'd love to have a drink with so you can't be that bad.

I've never fitted anywhere, I don't want to, most people just f*****g disgust me.



Mona Pereth
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24 Aug 2019, 6:40 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Uhmmm. So I probably am no where near being an NT then. I assumed I maybe sitting on the fence in between both aspects.

It's conceivable that you might be neurodivergent in some way without quite fitting the criteria for ASD. In that case, you wouldn't be NT either.

Mountain Goat wrote:
I almost am not sure what an NT is anymore. Except they may go to work, come home, go to the pub, get drunk, go to sleep, have a hangover when they get up... Then go back to work and say "Never again will I get drunk"... Then they repeat the whole process again and again and again... Is that typical NT life? Or are NT's also on their own spectrum!

Oh dear. I have complicated things further haven't I? Haha!

Certainly, not all (or even most) NTs are alcoholics (although it might seem that way if you happen to live in a culture where everyone drinks all the time anyway).

Alcholism and drug addition are, according to what I've read, more common among HFAs than among NTs. See, for example:

Tuesday, July 3, 2018
Autism and Addiction: A Problem with Deep Roots
Maxfield Sparrow

The Hidden Link Between Autism and Addiction
It’s believed that people on the spectrum don’t get hooked on alcohol or other drugs. New evidence suggests they do.

Maia Szalavitz Mar 2, 2017

Autistic Symptoms Make Higher Risk for Substance Abuse
Autistic symptoms (but not autism diagnosis!) increase substance abuse risk

Posted Jul 01, 2014

As far as I can tell: Name just about any idiosyncrasy, of almost any kind, and it's probably more common among autistic people than among NTs.

To clarify: When I said that NTs are fundamentally alike in ways that we are not, I didn't mean that they are all identical clones of each other. However, they are fundamentally similar to each other, in ways that we are not, in terms of many aspects of their neurology (in contrast to the differences among autistic people that I mentioned in my previous post, among other differences). That's what makes it relatively easy for NTs to socialize with each other.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 24 Aug 2019, 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mountain Goat
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24 Aug 2019, 6:45 pm

Thanks both.
I don't drink myself other then a wine at Christmas or the odd thing like that, but I really appreciate the compliment.

My connecting with people....
I can be part of a work team and I will be respected for my expertize, and I will get along fine usually, but then after work, I would head home. I would be the real unmasked "Me" where I can relax and unwind.
Very few people I know I really connect with in such a way that we would meet outside of work or outside of another official type of group that I have been in (E.g. school). Nearly everyone I do connect to is what I call connecting at arms length.


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BDavro
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24 Aug 2019, 6:46 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Thanks both.
I don't drink myself other then a wine at Christmas or the odd thing like that, but I really appreciate the compliment.

My connecting with people....
I can be part of a work team and I will be respected for my expertize, and I will get along fine usually, but then after work, I would head home. I would be the real unmasked "Me" where I can relax and unwind.
Very few people I know I really connect with in such a way that we would meet outside of work or outside of another official type of group that I have been in (E.g. school). Nearly everyone I do connect to is what I call connecting at arms length.



I am so going to get you drunk.



Mountain Goat
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24 Aug 2019, 6:55 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Uhmmm. So I probably am no where near being an NT then. I assumed I maybe sitting on the fence in between both aspects.

It's conceivable that you might be neurodivergent in some way without quite fitting the criteria for ASD. In that case, you wouldn't be NT either.

Mountain Goat wrote:
I almost am not sure what an NT is anymore. Except they may go to work, come home, go to the pub, get drunk, go to sleep, have a hangover when they get up... Then go back to work and say "Never again will I get drunk"... Then they repeat the whole process again and again and again... Is that typical NT life? Or are NT's also on their own spectrum!

Oh dear. I have complicated things further haven't I? Haha!

Certainly, not all (or even most) NTs are alcoholics (although it might seem that way if you happen to live in a culture where everyone drinks all the time anyway).

Alcholism and drug addition are, according to what I've read, more common among HFAs than among NTs. See, for example:

Tuesday, July 3, 2018
Autism and Addiction: A Problem with Deep Roots
Maxfield Sparrow

The Hidden Link Between Autism and Addiction
It’s believed that people on the spectrum don’t get hooked on alcohol or other drugs. New evidence suggests they do.

Maia Szalavitz Mar 2, 2017

Autistic Symptoms Make Higher Risk for Substance Abuse
Autistic symptoms (but not autism diagnosis!) increase substance abuse risk

Posted Jul 01, 2014

As far as I can tell: Name just about any idiosyncrasy, of almost any kind, and it's probably more common among autistic people than among NTs.

To clarify: When I said that NTs are fundamentally alike in ways that we are not, I didn't mean that they are all identical clones of each other. However, they are fundamentally similar to each other, in ways that we are not, in terms of many aspects of their neurology (in contrast to the differences among autistic people that I mentioned in my previous post, among other differences). That's what makes it relatively easy for NTs to socialize with each other.



Oh. That's one thing I have recognised in my character where I am careful is the potential to become addicted. Is why I don't start to drink alcohol or have never tried drugs etc. I knew from a child when a friend used to give me "Victory V's" and I realized I quickly became addicted and had to break the addiction, how easily addictiveness can take hold of me. I saw my Dad who my Mum would have to steer away from alcohol, as we all knew that my Dad would not stop if he had started to drink. All the home made wines would be drunk before they were even ready. Is why my Mu didn't give my Dad opportunities to drink, as I think deep down even he knew that if he started he would be an alcoholic. It took him most if his life to give up tobacco.

Haha BDavro. The last time I was drunk I was soo annoyed with myself. I was supposed to be helping with haymaking. You think those bales were going anywhere near the barn? All I had was a pint of cider. I actually confused cider with shandy in my mind... I thought "This tastes nice!" They had to drive me home and I had to walk down to collect my Dads car the next day.


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Broekenkakker
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24 Aug 2019, 7:39 pm

I relate to what you're saying, to a certain extent.

I mean, I don't fit in at work nor with my classmates (many of whom openly dislike me, ignore me, talk behind my back, etc.), and even with those colleagues who I sort of like, I can't connect. I can't connect with my relatives either. Only with my partner and with my best friend (who has taken a break from me and I don't know when he'll talk to me again, which makes me extremely anxious and down).

In fact, my partner, and my (two) best friends are my only friends. But I only manage to feel connected to my partner and one of my best friends.


I've worked at the same school since 2015 and I've never went for a cup of coffee with anyone, nor has anyone ever asked me to join them for lunch nor even asked me when's my birthday or texted me just because, to check how I'm doing or whatever. They text me, yes... When they need something. Same with my relatives :(

It's awfully lonely.



BDavro
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24 Aug 2019, 7:42 pm

Why would any of you wish to fit in?

I mean, you've seen them and observed them, why would you want to be them?



Mountain Goat
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24 Aug 2019, 7:46 pm

Aww. I hope things improve for you. I hope your partnet returns etc. I am glad you understand... but not so glad you find the same.
It is lonely. Is wierd having friends but who are more like collegues... Is not that I am not friendly. Is more what I call arms length friends. I love them but somehow I can't really unmask and show the real me.


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BDavro
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24 Aug 2019, 7:48 pm

They are not friends.

I don't mean that in a bad way, just a factual observation.

I have very few friends, because friends f*****g matter and if you have loads then you probably have none.

autism is a great filter of people.



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24 Aug 2019, 7:55 pm

Closer friends. I have two. One I see once a year as he lives in Ireland.. The other I see once every two months as he lives about 12 miles away.


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BDavro
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24 Aug 2019, 7:59 pm

I have a friend I only see 2-3 times a year because he got married and had a nasty crotch fruit with his lady.

my lass is my best friend but she lives in england and we only see each other every 2 months or so, small stolen holidays together.

I hate everyone else.