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Bravo5150
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12 Nov 2019, 9:00 am

I am surprised, especially since you work for the court. I would think that having knowledge of how the system works would have been held against you.



kraftiekortie
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12 Nov 2019, 9:02 am

I work in the criminal court. Civil court is very different.



Fnord
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12 Nov 2019, 9:04 am

The_Walrus wrote:
...
Antrax wrote:
Jurors get dismissed for all kinds of reasons, as both legal teams try to get the jury they think is most favorable to their case.  Do you happen to have a high-level of education.  Most who do get dismissed.
Surely that's an affront to justice?
It sure seems that way, doesn't it?  Both sides seem to want jurors who can be swayed by emotional content, even when the empirical evidence may not support the argument of one side or the other.

Just like an on-line community sharing a common background, prosecutors and defense attorneys seem reluctant to have anyone on the jury who can cut through all the drama and emotional bushlit to consider the evidence and reach their own conclusions.  This is why even former law-enforcement officers are automatically dismissed from the jury pool -- neither side wants people trained in police procedures and/or forensic studies who can tear apart a legal argument with just a few "expert" opinions.  Psychologists and medical professionals are also usually dismissed.

The organized mind of an independent thinker is anathema to courtroom theatrics.


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episode "The Mark of Gideon" (ep. 3.16, 1969)


kraftiekortie
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12 Nov 2019, 9:06 am

They would really love people who don’t read the news.



SharonB
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12 Nov 2019, 9:28 am

Bravo5150 wrote:
In orientation, before going to our respective courtrooms, I asked "Will I be allowed to ask any questions to the witnesses if a point pops into my head that neither the prosecutor or defense attorney brings up?" Instead of a direct yes or no answer, she briefly left the room then came back about five minutes later to announce "there are no jurors needed today, everyone plead out."

@Bravo5150, wow, you were on it like a …. like a …. oh, you know that expression. I am totally like that... let's get to work here, and get to the bottom of this! It seems most people don't want to. Intense thoughts and feelings here...



Fnord
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12 Nov 2019, 9:42 am

Bravo5150 wrote:
In orientation, before going to our respective courtrooms, I asked "Will I be allowed to ask any questions to the witnesses if a point pops into my head that neither the prosecutor or defense attorney brings up?" Instead of a direct yes or no answer, she briefly left the room then came back about five minutes later to announce "there are no jurors needed today, everyone plead out."
Here's another one: "Will the jury be allowed to find that the legal statute cited in this case is itself illegal?"  I once saw just that one question result in the dismissal of the entire jury pool in a similar way.


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purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.”

— Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock, in the Star Trek
episode "The Mark of Gideon" (ep. 3.16, 1969)


kraftiekortie
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12 Nov 2019, 9:46 am

They don't usually want juries to "think" all that abstractly or expansively.

All they want them to do is assess the particular case they are assigned to.

Imagine if every jury was like the one in "12 Angry Men?" (obviously, there were women on juries even back in 1957, when the movie was made--so it's sort of absurd that the jury was composed solely of men).



SharonB
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12 Nov 2019, 6:49 pm

Fnord wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
In orientation, before going to our respective courtrooms, I asked "Will I be allowed to ask any questions to the witnesses if a point pops into my head that neither the prosecutor or defense attorney brings up?" Instead of a direct yes or no answer, she briefly left the room then came back about five minutes later to announce "there are no jurors needed today, everyone plead out."
Here's another one: "Will the jury be allowed to find that the legal statute cited in this case is itself illegal?"  I once saw just that one question result in the dismissal of the entire jury pool in a similar way.

Love these, and that's exactly how I think.

In fact, the latter has led to a couple disagreements I have had with armed officers and guards (in my teens and 20s). I couldn't understand why they were unwilling to, or nervous about, discussing the nuances of the trespassing rules. TOM: They're busy. It's not their job.

As I asked in broken Spanish of a young guard with an assault rifle in a third-world country: if I'm not supposed to sit here, why is there a bench? (which reminds me that I await the report from my ASD assessment)

On a Jury one might see where there is systematic flaws regarding evidence, testimony... etc. or not...



Bravo5150
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12 Nov 2019, 8:04 pm

SharonB wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
In orientation, before going to our respective courtrooms, I asked "Will I be allowed to ask any questions to the witnesses if a point pops into my head that neither the prosecutor or defense attorney brings up?" Instead of a direct yes or no answer, she briefly left the room then came back about five minutes later to announce "there are no jurors needed today, everyone plead out."

@Bravo5150, wow, you were on it like a …. like a …. oh, you know that expression. I am totally like that... let's get to work here, and get to the bottom of this! It seems most people don't want to. Intense thoughts and feelings here...


Want to know how to make friends with someone real quick? Most NTs, who end up being selected have tried to find a way out and couldn't. Let them pick your brain on how to answer different questions that might come up. I was a bit disappointed that the pool I was in got dismissed, but everyone else in the room was celebrating.