Unwritten rules that NT's don't follow

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Jayo
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25 Oct 2020, 12:22 pm

Yes, you read that right - some unwritten rules I've noticed that NTs don't follow 8O

In fact, pre-diagnosis or even shortly after diagnosis, I reflected on these actual experiences and thought "well, everyone fudges unwritten rules from time to time, so why am I singled out..." and then I realized, well, I guess I just do it more often that it's noticeable - as if there's an, ahem, unspoken "passing mark" to be NT, and I fell short of that e.g. it was 80%, and I was at 67%. But I digress, here we go:

1. Don't ask questions to people or ask how the food is (in a restaurant, or social gathering) if they've got their mouth full -wait till they've finished eating.

2. When entering the public transit bus or train, wait for others to exit first.

3. In the supermarket, if the person in front of you just has a couple of items that they put on the conveyor belt, don't just dump your items next and close to them...use the friggin' separator bar, that's what it's there for :x

4. If you're in some counter service place, and someone is looking at the menu board, ASK THEM FIRST if they're waiting to be served before assuming that they're just observing the menu choices.

5. If you're a customer service phone rep and there's an obvious problem due to your company's foul-ups, and it's caused inconvenience to the customer calling, please, PLEASE don't say "no problem" as filler - nor should you say at the end "thank you for choosing such-and-such company, and have a nice day" if the problem's still pending a resolution :evil:
You sound like a bloody automaton!! !!

6. If you cancel on somebody, at least have the decency to [propose a] reschedule, don't just leave it hanging.

7. If you borrow something from somebody, don't lend it out to somebody else without asking the owner first (I had this happen more than once in high school, and it was "shame on me" the second time...never did THAT again!)

8. Treat others with respect and as though they matter, regardless of their status or station in life.

9. Don't take a flippant attitude towards parking slightly outside the yellow lines. The rest of us don't give a s**t if you drive a fancy German luxury car, we just want to park without the "sardine" feeling.

10. If you need to retrieve a forgotten object of yours from an office room with the door open, and two (or more) people are having a discussion, at least knock lightly on the door and say "excuse me - I forgot something, I'll be out of your way in just a second" - don't just barge in and retrieve your object. I remember one time, around my diagnosis, I was having a (positive!) performance discussion with my boss in my CS/IT job (where else, ha ha) and this woman barged in to retrieve her lunch bag, then out, w/o saying a word - my boss and I just looked at each other, like, WTF??? And it was then that he realized that I wasn't totally "out to lunch", pun intended, on unspoken norms...
:lol:



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25 Oct 2020, 1:17 pm

11. If you don't like a certain animal that someone else has as a pet, don't spew out insensitive things about the animal that make you sound like a heartless jerk. Giving your opinion about said animal is fine, as not everyone can like the same things, but making yourself sound like you'd kill the animal if you had the chance is just not acceptable if the other person happens to love the animal.

12. Treat others how you'd want to be treated. If more people did this then this world would be a better place to live in. (I go by this motto).

13. If you're home most days or most/all of the day, don't go and get your vacuum out at 1am unless you don't live in an apartment building, as it is not fair on the people underneath you and there is no reason to start vacuuming at that time of the night.

14. If you have little kids, don't assume that all strangers will love your kids running around them, invading their personal space and making shrieking noises. Control your young, teach them from an early age that there's a time and a place for play, and respect other people's space (especially during the COVID era).

15. If you have your phone on silent and it starts vibrating in your hand or pocket and someone else is right in the middle of talking to you, kindly say "oh, hold on a moment, my phone is ringing" or "excuse me a moment" and answer it, instead of just answering it.


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KittyMomma
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25 Oct 2020, 7:22 pm

Don't hog a conversation.

Don't interrupt other people or talk over them.



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26 Oct 2020, 12:02 pm

If those ARE the NT unwritten rules...

Then the first thing I'd ask is "Where do you live?"


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KT67
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26 Oct 2020, 12:36 pm

Joe90 wrote:
11. If you don't like a certain animal that someone else has as a pet, don't spew out insensitive things about the animal that make you sound like a heartless jerk. Giving your opinion about said animal is fine, as not everyone can like the same things, but making yourself sound like you'd kill the animal if you had the chance is just not acceptable if the other person happens to love the animal.



My cousin is a hypocrite on this one.

I'm terrified of dogs cos of bad experiences as a child. And cos of reading on the news about dogs killing kids etc. And being dyspraxic, I'm pretty sure that big dogs have the ability to knock me over.

I believe anyone scared of cats is either highly superstitious or a rabbit/mouse etc not human. Even if a cat scratches you - if you're up to date on your jabs then it can't actually hurt you that bad, it's just a little cat. (Provided you're human - when she kept a hamster for eg I wouldn't let my cat near the hamster cos it could do real damage)

My cat scratches her once and she demonises the poor thing all its life.

Her dog leaps on me, almost pushes me over. I push it off me. She goes into a rant about 'she's just a puppy don't be mean'... :roll:

Everyone in my family knows I'm terrified of dogs.

I'm gonna ban her from letting that dog near me next Christmas unless she can guarantee it keeps 4 paws on the ground.



Udinaas
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26 Oct 2020, 1:13 pm

Quote:
1. Don't ask questions to people or ask how the food is (in a restaurant, or social gathering) if they've got their mouth full -wait till they've finished eating.


This happens to me a ridiculous amount. It makes me wonder if NT's instinctively know when not to eat based on the rhythm of conversation.



KT67
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26 Oct 2020, 1:22 pm

NT adults tend not to say please and thank you unless they think someone is above them.

So I learnt to copy this.

You can get away with it if you do tone of voice right to imply it instead. And just say 'thanks'.

If you don't copy it they think you are young or inferior somehow.



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26 Oct 2020, 1:30 pm

KT67 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
11. If you don't like a certain animal that someone else has as a pet, don't spew out insensitive things about the animal that make you sound like a heartless jerk. Giving your opinion about said animal is fine, as not everyone can like the same things, but making yourself sound like you'd kill the animal if you had the chance is just not acceptable if the other person happens to love the animal.



My cousin is a hypocrite on this one.

I'm terrified of dogs cos of bad experiences as a child. And cos of reading on the news about dogs killing kids etc. And being dyspraxic, I'm pretty sure that big dogs have the ability to knock me over.

I believe anyone scared of cats is either highly superstitious or a rabbit/mouse etc not human. Even if a cat scratches you - if you're up to date on your jabs then it can't actually hurt you that bad, it's just a little cat. (Provided you're human - when she kept a hamster for eg I wouldn't let my cat near the hamster cos it could do real damage)

My cat scratches her once and she demonises the poor thing all its life.

Her dog leaps on me, almost pushes me over. I push it off me. She goes into a rant about 'she's just a puppy don't be mean'... :roll:

Everyone in my family knows I'm terrified of dogs.

I'm gonna ban her from letting that dog near me next Christmas unless she can guarantee it keeps 4 paws on the ground.


I'm not really a dog person but I still would never want to see a dog hurt or killed (NOT implying that you were saying that, I'm just saying). I love rats and I have rats as pets, and I do respect the fact that some people shudder at the thought of having rats as pets, and I understand that, but I know one person who said horrid things to me about my pets like "they should be shot" and stuff like that, and there was no need to say that.
Also I know a person who hates cats to the point where they laugh if one got run over, and I find that very mean indeed. She loves dogs though. I call people that love dogs but hate cats "extreme dog lovers".


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26 Oct 2020, 2:01 pm

Yep...sometimes NT's don't follow these rules. It doesn't mean you have to go down to the level of those people.



KT67
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26 Oct 2020, 5:28 pm

Joe90 wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
11. If you don't like a certain animal that someone else has as a pet, don't spew out insensitive things about the animal that make you sound like a heartless jerk. Giving your opinion about said animal is fine, as not everyone can like the same things, but making yourself sound like you'd kill the animal if you had the chance is just not acceptable if the other person happens to love the animal.



My cousin is a hypocrite on this one.

I'm terrified of dogs cos of bad experiences as a child. And cos of reading on the news about dogs killing kids etc. And being dyspraxic, I'm pretty sure that big dogs have the ability to knock me over.

I believe anyone scared of cats is either highly superstitious or a rabbit/mouse etc not human. Even if a cat scratches you - if you're up to date on your jabs then it can't actually hurt you that bad, it's just a little cat. (Provided you're human - when she kept a hamster for eg I wouldn't let my cat near the hamster cos it could do real damage)

My cat scratches her once and she demonises the poor thing all its life.

Her dog leaps on me, almost pushes me over. I push it off me. She goes into a rant about 'she's just a puppy don't be mean'... :roll:

Everyone in my family knows I'm terrified of dogs.

I'm gonna ban her from letting that dog near me next Christmas unless she can guarantee it keeps 4 paws on the ground.


I'm not really a dog person but I still would never want to see a dog hurt or killed (NOT implying that you were saying that, I'm just saying). I love rats and I have rats as pets, and I do respect the fact that some people shudder at the thought of having rats as pets, and I understand that, but I know one person who said horrid things to me about my pets like "they should be shot" and stuff like that, and there was no need to say that.
Also I know a person who hates cats to the point where they laugh if one got run over, and I find that very mean indeed. She loves dogs though. I call people that love dogs but hate cats "extreme dog lovers".


Dogs only need to be shot or killed if they have killed or bitten a human.

Dog bites are more serious than cat bites and can land a human in hospital. I mean that kind of bite, not just a nip.

Even then - I hope there are consequences for the owners/breeders like jail time for breeding an animal like that and not keeping it under control. And if the dog can be safely rehomed away from vulnerable people/children then do it... Human life comes first though & if cats were closer to lions in terms of how dangerous they were, I'd say the same about cats.

Just, it ought to be accepted that if a dog leaps on an aspie, the dog will be pushed off. Train dogs to keep 4 feet on the floor.

I hate how people say 'dogs are all about body language, be good at body language and they won't bother you'. I'm not good at body language. And they seem obsessed with copying NT humans. I'm good at blinking like my cat likes.

Rats are only dangerous to humans if they have something like the plague. Even then, it's the fleas that carry the plague.

I would keep my cat away from your rats. Same as the hamsters. Cats are horrible lethal animals sure, but not to humans above the age of babies. Only to a host of other animals...



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26 Oct 2020, 6:14 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...sometimes NT's don't follow these rules. It doesn't mean you have to go down to the level of those people.


Sometimes though they don't respect you if you don't.

If you abide by all the etiquette rules learnt in childhood they think you're either insecure or very young or somehow inferior to them.

Show that they don't intimidate you by learning to act like they do. Including doing things which might be seen as 'rude' like swearing (maybe not if it goes against personal ethics around kids or against god etc - and context matters so not in a professional setting) and implying please/thank you rather than saying it.

When I was a kid I was taught to say:

"Please may I"
"Thank you very much"

Even as a kid, my childminder's kid said:
"Please can I?"
"Thanks"

I would have been told that was rude if I did that.

My stepdad does it the rude way though. He doesn't use tone properly. If you don't use tone properly, as a lot of aspies fall into the trap of by default, do the 'please can' and 'thanks'. So for eg... now for me it's
"While you're up, do you mind getting me?"
Then I say "thanks"

While he says (to mum so there's no hierarchy - does it to me too but that might be put down to a hierarchy thing)
"Get me"
And he doesn't say "thanks".
And his tone of voice isn't soft or asking, it's assertive and loud. If you use that tone of voice, you have to say 'please' and 'thanks'. Or the other person will resent you.

He expects me to use the "get me" mode. When I don't, when I couch it in softer language, he thinks I'm not telling him/asking him, merely stating a preference... Like if I say "I would like" in the context of him making a hot drink, he doesn't make me one... If I say "Get me a cup of tea" he makes me one. Then I thank him afterwards cos no way am I going to demand like that and then not say thanks.



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26 Oct 2020, 8:52 pm

Quote:
Dogs only need to be shot or killed if they have killed or bitten a human.

Dog bites are more serious than cat bites and can land a human in hospital. I mean that kind of bite, not just a nip.

Even then - I hope there are consequences for the owners/breeders like jail time for breeding an animal like that and not keeping it under control. And if the dog can be safely rehomed away from vulnerable people/children then do it... Human life comes first though & if cats were closer to lions in terms of how dangerous they were, I'd say the same about cats.

Just, it ought to be accepted that if a dog leaps on an aspie, the dog will be pushed off. Train dogs to keep 4 feet on the floor.

I hate how people say 'dogs are all about body language, be good at body language and they won't bother you'. I'm not good at body language. And they seem obsessed with copying NT humans. I'm good at blinking like my cat likes.

Rats are only dangerous to humans if they have something like the plague. Even then, it's the fleas that carry the plague.

I would keep my cat away from your rats. Same as the hamsters. Cats are horrible lethal animals sure, but not to humans above the age of babies. Only to a host of other animals...


I love rats and I know they are famous prey for cats but I love cats too. I've always been a cat person and not really a dog person but I still wouldn't say insensitive things about a dog, and especially not to someone who loves dogs.
If a cat did somehow manage to kill one of my rats I would be extremely upset but I wouldn't hate cats for it, nor would I wish bad things on the cat that killed the rat.
But I don't like thinking about animals getting hurt or killed, as it starts really upsetting me, so let's get back on topic. :wink:


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26 Oct 2020, 9:03 pm

Jayo wrote:
1. Don't ask questions to people or ask how the food is (in a restaurant, or social gathering) if they've got their mouth full -wait till they've finished eating.

Yes I learned this in primary school, its difficult to pronounce words when you have food in your mouth
Jayo wrote:
2. When entering the public transit bus or train, wait for others to exit first.

I'm always polite and wait for passengers getting out of buses but sometimes I might jump in as public transport (trams, trains) since you cant see exiting passengers
Jayo wrote:
3. In the supermarket, if the person in front of you just has a couple of items that they put on the conveyor belt, don't just dump your items next and close to them...use the friggin' separator bar, that's what it's there for :x

Always use the separator bar
Jayo wrote:
4. If you're in some counter service place, and someone is looking at the menu board, ASK THEM FIRST if they're waiting to be served before assuming that they're just observing the menu choices.

Always do this, act courteously
Jayo wrote:
5. If you're a customer service phone rep and there's an obvious problem due to your company's foul-ups, and it's caused inconvenience to the customer calling, please, PLEASE don't say "no problem" as filler - nor should you say at the end "thank you for choosing such-and-such company, and have a nice day" if the problem's still pending a resolution :evil:
You sound like a bloody automaton!! ! !

Depends who it is. I am rude to cold calls
Jayo wrote:
6. If you cancel on somebody, at least have the decency to [propose a] reschedule, don't just leave it hanging.

I always let the other person know.
Jayo wrote:
7. If you borrow something from somebody, don't lend it out to somebody else without asking the owner first (I had this happen more than once in high school, and it was "shame on me" the second time...never did THAT again!)

This is a no-brainer
Jayo wrote:
8. Treat others with respect and as though they matter, regardless of their status or station in life.

This is me.
Jayo wrote:
9. Don't take a flippant attitude towards parking slightly outside the yellow lines. The rest of us don't give a s**t if you drive a fancy German luxury car, we just want to park without the "sardine" feeling.

I also hate those drivers
Jayo wrote:
10. If you need to retrieve a forgotten object of yours from an office room with the door open, and two (or more) people are having a discussion, at least knock lightly on the door and say "excuse me - I forgot something, I'll be out of your way in just a second" - don't just barge in and retrieve your object. I remember one time, around my diagnosis, I was having a (positive!) performance discussion with my boss in my CS/IT job (where else, ha ha) and this woman barged in to retrieve her lunch bag, then out, w/o saying a word - my boss and I just looked at each other, like, WTF??? And it was then that he realized that I wasn't totally "out to lunch", pun intended, on unspoken norms...
:lol:

I do this.

So at least one NT does follow these rules :wink:



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26 Oct 2020, 11:15 pm

Udinaas wrote:
Quote:
1. Don't ask questions to people or ask how the food is (in a restaurant, or social gathering) if they've got their mouth full -wait till they've finished eating.


This happens to me a ridiculous amount. It makes me wonder if NT's instinctively know when not to eat based on the rhythm of conversation.


I never knew about this rule. 8O

I've been taught not to speak with my mouth full, so if anyone asks me something, that included, when my mouth is full, I just wait for it to be empty before I answer. Most people I know do this and it doesn't seem to be a problem.



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27 Oct 2020, 2:24 am

KT67 wrote:
NT adults tend not to say please and thank you unless they think someone is above them.

So I learnt to copy this.

You can get away with it if you do tone of voice right to imply it instead. And just say 'thanks'.

If you don't copy it they think you are young or inferior somehow.


I have always attempted to set forward an example of how I'd prefer to be treated. Sometimes to this day [yes, even during the pandemic], someone will almost run into me in a store [while I am maintaining a regular walking pace and sometimes even when pausing before pushing a cart beyond a blind turn] and I politely offer "excuse me" as a force of habit. I also say "please" thank you" and "sorry" more often than necessary, out of the hope that I'll be treated politely too, even if I'm calling a company on the phone to log a complaint. I definitely should have been born in Canada for oh so many reasons. I used to hold doors open for most people [it's how I was raised], but after I left New Orleans, nobody in my new area ever seemed to acknowledge or appreciate it. In once case, a stream of five people just walked by me for over 30 seconds without even making eye contact with me as I stood there, so I've since abandoned the habit [save for older folks and parents with young kids in tow], people in this area are just plain rude. To this day, I have no idea where the myth of "Southern hospitality" came from. I've been through every state in the Southeast, lived in three of them, and outside of Louisiana and Texas [where people are genuinely more polite than most Americans in my experience], people act much like they seemed to in New York City and Chicago. Actually, strike that. Strangers in Chicago and New Jersey were usually much nicer to me than those I've met in the Chattanooga metro area.

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...sometimes NT's don't follow these rules. It doesn't mean you have to go down to the level of those people.


I usually don't, but we all have bad days. I had to gently push away a man last week at Wal-Mart, behind me in line, who was literally, intentionally breathing down my neck. He said, "Oh lemme get a tape measure." I replied [without looking at him] "Just wear a mask, it's the law." He said, "It's just the same as the flu." I told him that I just got a flu shot that day because I didn't want the flu either and said sarcastically that I was glad to be talking to a medical doctor about the subject. I told the clerk "Thanks, and have a great day." The man called loudly after me, "Have a nice day, sir!" The kindest reply I could muster was "Kiss my ass, buddy, kiss my ass." We all have bad days [and honestly Chattanooga is the seventh layer of hell].


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27 Oct 2020, 3:15 am

Mmm...
There's being nice and there's being polite.

There's a fine line somewhere, where being polite is thrown out of the window for whatever circumstances -- that includes being nice and being concerned. :lol:

It's not limited to asserting dominance, mind games, hierarchical reminders, immaturity, ignorance or inattention.
But one had to know your context deeply to discern that.


Socializing, especially in groups and several settings, are not as one or two dimensional.
It isn't by any means.



I'm not defending any NTs nor justify rule breaking (while getting away with it) and anyone's inability to follow said rules.

I want others to think big. But that's the thing, it's hard to do so. Harder in real time, real life.
Yet worry not, there is no such thing as a true correct interpretation of behaviors.


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Last edited by Edna3362 on 27 Oct 2020, 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.