ASD and the dynamics of group conversation

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I was sitting outside a cafe in the sun (before CV of course) with one of my very close and very dear friends. I was watching a group of teenagers at a bigger table in front of me, trying to work out how they knew when to speak and all that ... BTW this has been a lifelong puzzle since I always seem to screw it up no matter how well I think I’m masking! After about half an hour I asked my non AS friend, ( the only one of two too whom I have come out to!), how the heck do NTs manage this process. I mean I thought already that I had a hypothesis from years back, but she was busy reading the newspaper, and I was on my own little planet. I’d be surprised if this question hasn’t occupied many of us in one way or another lol. So my friend said, well, its a kind of dynamic, people watch each other’s body language, tone, etc and try to add to the conversation, watching other’s responses. so I said, well I know this in theory, (that was my strongest hypothesis anyway), but when I watch these guys, I can’t see any sig n of it. I can’t reproducibly do it of course. She just laughed, we’ve been down this path before of course, where she gently signals to me in a kind way to stop talking. My Ex always used to point it out to me too, but almost with a sort of glee or Schadenfreude that had a nasty barbed point to it. I know this is a common Aspie trait of course, but I’d be curious to hear others’ views?

I've never been able to do group conversations. One on one conversations are alright, sometimes I can manage having a converstion with three people if they are considerate and really want to include me in a conversation but more than three is absolutely impossible for me. I just don't get when to talk. I just talk whenever I feel I can contribute and then someone else just talks over me and some look at me as if I were an unruly child. There is no way I'm ever going to get that, so I usually sit and just listen when I'm in the company of others and just talk when someone addresses me personally. Of course that also means that they all think I'm arrogant and uninterested when I do that but I really don't know how else to deal with that kind of situation.

I'm the hypersensitive AS and see it all. I am overwhelmed in a group watching all the expressions and all the movements. Just b/c I see it doesn't mean I know what it means --- were any other those four motions an indicator for the conversation or simply physical discomfort? Recent studies suggest an NT doesn't really "know" either, but they make reasonable assumptions. So my mind is twisting and turning over all the possibilities in the body language, all the possibilities of the social dynamics (that person interrupted that person), all the possibilities of responses. It's overwhelming.

In a group, the topic often moves on before I get a chance to respond. This is partly because I am trying to let others finish, and provide continuity for the listeners.
You will often see people talking over each other, and also using placeholders like "um" to delay interruptions. I think that most people start speaking when the urge strikes, often at the point where the guess the rest of an ongoing sentence. In the process of integrating what they were hearing, they got so much resonance with another memory that they want it to be incorporated into the conversation immediately, and the synapses cascade. Then, they are scrambling to find the words to finish their own sentence, and may have to hem and haw while they think more.
As you speak, large numbers of responses will be occurring to your audience, and it is a major strain to have to remember a series of them while waiting for a break. To be polite, you should not speak longer than the average period. If the subject always changes when you finish, and/or you see signs of boredom, you should do something different. If there have been half a dozen remarks on sports car seats, and the only thing they remind you of are Victorian hip baths, you should probably keep it to yourself, no matter how vividly you see the connection.

LOL. So when my peer asked our top executive about his "hobby" cattle ranch and the executive mentioned how he was separating the calves from the cows, who called plaintively to each other, I should not have jumped up a foot in my seat and enthusiastically mentioned that I was weaning my son that very week and could wholeheartedly relate (to the cows)?

(and he used the word "heifers" but an online search just know says that is female cow who has yet to bear young, so clearly I wasn't tracking something)

until recently have been less inclined to interject my thoughts into others gabfest, occassionally can see a connection to a topic am familiar with . Have had to excuse myself in polite conversation more than once as my topic strays from the ongoing format . Found mostly am usually only able to address facts that might apply . Not quick enough to analyze subjective feelings often. Usually , if asked to substantiate something of my facts, am having a tendency to become verboust and miss social ques. And people leave the conversation often , in one way or another . topic change or whatever. Or if it becomes to difficult to follow speed of convo. excuse myself. And have to accept that convo is not for me. Am okay if am merely a listener . You never know when you might learn something new, that you might apply somewhere else.

One night, I had the misfortune to pitch my tent close to where a herd had been separated from the calves, and they all bawled continuously over the distress. Cows are extremely social animals.

Just too many things going on at once for me.

I'm usually the guy who leans back and lets everyone else in the group express their opinions before I contribute a list of facts. Unfortunately, this usually results in the end of the group conversation as the facts I present often refute the opinions of one or more people in the group.

One time, I was in a bicycling advocacy group that was asked to comment on the design of a bikeway bridge. An engineer made a presentation, but didn't do a good job of chairing the meeting. One highly opinionated member was almost running out the clock on unrelated trivia when I finally cut in. There were two major flaws in the design, which everyone else quickly saw once I had interpreted the numbers for them.

I will guess you made an enemy of that "highly opinionated member" that day.

I didn't notice any new increment there. I let him have plenty of time, didn't contradict him, and didn't show him up more than the other members. I did make a friend of the engineer, though.

Jakki, that's the way of it. I have been struggling with the idea that ASD folks don't see social queues. Sure, that's true for some (half? more?). But as you say, it's more that I can miss them when I'm excited/agitated - or am more likely to misinterpret them. As a HS student under significant stress, I saw the person waving his arm --- I'm not blind!! ! But was it to hurry up or slow down? (My conclusion was wrong. And I either didn't think to ask the person with me, or I disregarded her input.)

I never successfully played the childhood jump rope game "Double Dutch" because I was so uncoordinated; that game takes jumping in at the right time and in the right way. That's what group conversation is like to me. Others seem to be able to jump in at the right time and in the right way.

I was always taught and I still believe that interrupting someone is rude so I try not to do it. It does seem that people do interrupt each other in group conversation to "jump in" at the right time. Like Dear_one said, when I'm ready to add to the conversation, the topic has already changed.

I have tried to "jump in" in group conversations at work by interrupting in the way I perceive others doing it, even though it feels wrong to me; even then people have either ignored me as if they didn't hear me speak or they've looked at me like they're offended that I interrupted.

I don't get the rules.

I had no clue that people do that.

I've never had coping strategies or known any tricks about social etiquette except "be nice to people".

I just talk when and if there is ever a free second, and then someone speaks over me.

I'm pretty surprised that there are apparently rules.

I think I'm fairly good at reading what's going on, sometimes. Whether with a group or an individual. I'm just not good at responding appropriately, I don't really know what to do with the information and it can take quite a bit of time to come up with a functioning part of a script that's relevant to the conversation.
I find myself sitting and watching, ignoring the conversation altogether, adding something ten minutes after the conversation has moved on, or somehow at the center of the whole thing with everyone absolutely riveted to whatever I'm saying/doing.
I tend to think of group interaction like watching a movie, but also being expected to participate in the movie at some point.