Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) & ASD

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I over heard someone say their cousin has Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD).

Does this ever occur with autism, Aspergers or both? I know it occurs with ADHD, then again ADHD is a co-morbid of autism

It can.

It can even happen outside ADHD -- those with mood disorders is even more likely, than simply any label that made anyone suck at executing tasks.

The latter just makes ODD worse and more notable.

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Is there anyone here with ODD or know anyone with it.

Do they meet the stereotype of the person with a problem with authority?

I had problems with authority at the age of 9, but I think that was just rebelliousness.

Given that people with this ADD thing are supposedly "not aggressive towards people or animals, do not destroy property, and do not show a pattern of theft or deceit," I would question whether it's a true disorder, or just something they made up as a sop to authority.

The criteria seem to be either about irritability (which could be down to any number of causes, including the way the subject is being treated by their family and society) or:

"Often argues with authority figures or for children and adolescents, with adults" - but authority figures are frequently narcissistic, and adults aren't always right by any means. Why wouldn't a healthy person often be arguing with them?

"Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules" - ditto. Where is the proviso that the rule or "request" (by which I guess they mean "command") has to be reasonable?

"Often deliberately annoys others" - I thought ODD people weren't aggressive?

"Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior" - ditto.

"Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months" - ditto

So I'm not really sold on ODD as a concept. As for diagnosing ASDers with it, I think it has to be also remembered that pathological honesty, perfectionism and rigid thinking would tend to make us want to argue the toss about anything we don't see as reasonable. We're often good at error-checking, and would seek to help people by pointing out their mistakes, while it's a NT thing to allow for ego and so let a lot of things go. It's hardly the Aspie's fault if a lot of people let their foolish pride get in the way of learning something that could lead to improvement.

If anybody told me I had ODD and tried to offer me therapy for it, I'd want to know what it was about my behaviour that they saw as in need of correction. I'd want a convincing explanation that my ways were leading to harm. I just wish more people would stand up to being pushed around, then maybe there wouldn't be so much of it.

"Oppositional Defiant Disorder" sounds suspiciously like a label control-freak psychiatrists slap on patients who are being difficult.

^^ Various professionals have tried to combat the "madness" of resenting being a slave. In the USSR, opposition to the government was often a ticket to the nuthouse - a special kind of jail.

Strange how its a mo-morbid, since certain ODD behaviours possibly require a strong theory of mind, which is not a strong point of autism, Aspergers less so in some people.

After all if your going to be nasty to someone you have to know what will hurt them emotionally maybe?

I understand aggression & violence exists with autism sometimes but there is a certain emotional intent with ODD. Then again i may be wrong & just not understand ODD.

I can indeed confirm that this is the case. I have Autism, Aspergers, ADHD and ODD among other things and problems with people with authority does occur.
Not only that anger and annoyance towards people are an issue, for instance I get annoyed very easily and I have levels of anger, level 9 being I won’t budge, I will refuse to follow you and the rules, fists start forming if you really trigger me and say something I really don’t like, I will argue back if I’m not allowed to do something or purchase something I like with my own money and I will just do my own thing and refuse to do anything you say because I get that angry. Luckily I have never reached level 10. I can be very stubborn. I can’t help any of it, I wish I could but unfortunately it’s the traits of my conditions. I promise I am really lovely! this will only happen if you cross me the wrong way.

Frankly I'm surprised and disappointed that there isn't more on the Web that questions the validity of this ODD thing and the motives of those who tout it. I tried doing a few searches for "ODD," "ODD is a crock," etc. and found a couple of blogs that voiced dissent, but all the other hits - and there were many of them - were simply echoing the idea that ODD is a real mental disorder. Even the Wikipedia article on ODD contains nothing on criticisms and objections.

ODD is common co morbid with ADHD I have read. I read somewhere that only around 20% of those with ASD actually have it.

ODD is a behavior disorder and if not treated, it can lead to the kid having Conduct disorder followed by meeting the criteria for ASPD by age 18. There has also been a link between ADHD and ASPD. But of course every person I have known with ADHD did not have ODD or ASPD nor any signs of Conduct.