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hurtloam
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01 Jun 2019, 5:30 pm

I've just been reading some posts on Twitter about masking and how people don't realise this woman is autistic and how exhausting it is to mask.

I don't know whether I mask or not.

My friends kid is a lot like I was at her age. Is hypermedia, verbose, opinionated, dresses how she wants not how girls her age do. And I realised that I've learned to fit in better... I think.

I don't think that's masking. I think I've just added bits to myself and become who I want to be. I'm more tactful and I dress less out there, but I'm still headstrong and have strong opinions. Being around people still stresses me put, but I can make conversation without over thinking it now. I just practiced talking to people and it got easier as I got older.

I never pretend to like things that I don't like just to fit in. Would that be masking? I don't know.

I don't feel like I'm a different person at home to who I am out and about.



hurtloam
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01 Jun 2019, 5:41 pm

One of my friends actually suggested that I try to mask to fit in, though she didn't call it that.

Her suggestion came after someone she knows explained how they put on a front so that they can get along with others.

I was appalled that my friend suggested this. I like being me. I.like what I like. I'm not going to put on a face to please people I'm not really interested in pleasing so that I can make some fake friends. I'd rather be alone thank you.



dyadiccounterpoint
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01 Jun 2019, 5:50 pm

I do it.

It's doing things like smiling at the appropriate moment even though you don't innately feel that expression, or laughing at humor you don't feel. It's learning how to answer a comment towards you successfully to appear normal after realizing your impulsive, innate responses cause social issues and eventually alienation.

It feels like a job to do this, like you're managing everyone around you and regulating yourself. There's a certain anxiety when you are put on the spot in a fluid, social situation and know you are expected to follow an acceptable pattern of expression, especially anything that has to do with emotional reciprocity.

These strategies will help in navigating school and work, but they break down at friendship. You can't fake yourself to your "friends" for too long.


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TwilightPrincess
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01 Jun 2019, 5:52 pm

I mask whenever I’m around people. It’s not really that tiring anymore because I’m used to it. It’s almost second nature.

Part of the reason why I do it is because I really don’t enjoy confrontation and conflict. Many of my opinions are and have always been drastically different from everyone I know, so I tend to just keep them to myself. It’s easier that way.

I got tired of always being told I was wrong all the time, so since from around the time I was 15, I haven’t talked a whole lot. I’m fairly good at keeping up appearances. Most people think I’m shy, sweet, and quiet.

If only they knew. :twisted:


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TwilightPrincess
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01 Jun 2019, 5:56 pm

dyadiccounterpoint wrote:
I do it.

It's doing things like smiling at the appropriate moment even though you don't innately feel that expression, or laughing at humor you don't feel. It's learning how to answer a comment towards you successfully to appear normal after realizing your impulsive, innate responses cause social issues and eventually alienation.

It feels like a job to do this, like you're managing everyone around you and regulating yourself. There's a certain anxiety when you are put on the spot in a fluid, social situation and know you are expected to follow an acceptable pattern of expression, especially anything that has to do with emotional reciprocity.

These strategies will help in navigating school and work, but they break down at friendship. You can't fake yourself to your "friends" for too long.


I’m really good at smiling at the right moments, asking people the right questions to draw them out so I don’t have to talk, and following the social script that’s expected of me.

It does help one deal with social situations one has to face, but it’s extremely difficult to form friendships this way.

I don’t know how much or how little to say. It’s just awkward and very difficult for me.


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dyadiccounterpoint
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01 Jun 2019, 6:09 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
dyadiccounterpoint wrote:
I do it.

It's doing things like smiling at the appropriate moment even though you don't innately feel that expression, or laughing at humor you don't feel. It's learning how to answer a comment towards you successfully to appear normal after realizing your impulsive, innate responses cause social issues and eventually alienation.

It feels like a job to do this, like you're managing everyone around you and regulating yourself. There's a certain anxiety when you are put on the spot in a fluid, social situation and know you are expected to follow an acceptable pattern of expression, especially anything that has to do with emotional reciprocity.

These strategies will help in navigating school and work, but they break down at friendship. You can't fake yourself to your "friends" for too long.


I’m really good at smiling at the right moments, asking people the right questions to draw them out so I don’t have to talk, and following the social script that’s expected of me.

It does help one deal with social situations one has to face, but it’s extremely difficult to form friendships this way.

I don’t know how much or how little to say. It’s just awkward and very difficult for me.


Yeah...active listening and follow-up questioning is a great strategy to speak as little as possible while making the other person feel at ease with you. They'll even start liking you because you make them feel good by allowing them to be selfish in the conversation. It just breaks down when they make empathic gestures that are not quite as superficial. It's harder to fake an intimate bond than a laugh here and there.

I got better with knowing how much/little to say with time. When I'm doing this kind of thing, my mind is constantly saying to itself "Be concise. Shorten your attention span. Let them drive the conversation. Understand the current expectations. Use sarcasm to lighten mood or to deflect uncomfortable questions."


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TwilightPrincess
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01 Jun 2019, 6:18 pm

dyadiccounterpoint wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
dyadiccounterpoint wrote:
I do it.

It's doing things like smiling at the appropriate moment even though you don't innately feel that expression, or laughing at humor you don't feel. It's learning how to answer a comment towards you successfully to appear normal after realizing your impulsive, innate responses cause social issues and eventually alienation.

It feels like a job to do this, like you're managing everyone around you and regulating yourself. There's a certain anxiety when you are put on the spot in a fluid, social situation and know you are expected to follow an acceptable pattern of expression, especially anything that has to do with emotional reciprocity.

These strategies will help in navigating school and work, but they break down at friendship. You can't fake yourself to your "friends" for too long.


I’m really good at smiling at the right moments, asking people the right questions to draw them out so I don’t have to talk, and following the social script that’s expected of me.

It does help one deal with social situations one has to face, but it’s extremely difficult to form friendships this way.

I don’t know how much or how little to say. It’s just awkward and very difficult for me.


Yeah...active listening and follow-up questioning is a great strategy to speak as little as possible while making the other person feel at ease with you. They'll even start liking you because you make them feel good by allowing them to be selfish in the conversation. It just breaks down when they make empathic gestures that are not quite as superficial. It's harder to fake an intimate bond than a laugh here and there.

I got better with knowing how much/little to say with time. When I'm doing this kind of thing, my mind is constantly saying to itself "Be concise. Shorten your attention span. Let them drive the conversation. Understand the current expectations. Use sarcasm to lighten mood or to deflect uncomfortable questions."


People really do love it when you know how to make them comfortable and ask them the right questions so they can happily talk away about things they enjoy or even troubling things they need to get off their chests.

Then I respond in ways that acknowledge or even reflect their own perspectives (even if I think very differently), and they like this even more.

I like that I’m making the other person feel good, and I do enjoy learning about other people, too. Sometimes they tell me the most remarkable things about themselves - things that only someone very close to them would usually know.


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TimS1980
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01 Jun 2019, 6:45 pm

Yes, you mask, from one point of view...

I mask, and I think there are elements of masking in your behaviors / history you described.

I think there is a deeper point, though, which you've alluded to already, and I'll try to explore a bit more:

We start out a certain way, and we accrete new bits of personality over time. This process is driven by the way we think and behave.

I bet you can recall, as can I, childhood instances where you experienced social judgement /consequences that you couldn't predict ahead of time. That feeds into further observations about the origin of anxiety in Autistics, but it also leads to us trying to modify our behaviors and to fit in.

These modified behaviors are masking.

To speak to the point of ambiguity you raised, these behaviors also just became "who we are", because what we do over time tends to accrete on to the sum of who we are.

Thus, I think this is a theory which integrates and explains both the "this is masking" and "this is me" perspectives.



kraftiekortie
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01 Jun 2019, 6:58 pm

I certainly don’t “mask” too much on the subways.....



TwilightPrincess
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01 Jun 2019, 7:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I certainly don’t “mask” too much on the subways.....


You shouldn’t.

I think that masking stems from feeling anxious and uncomfortable in social situations. It’s not always a good thing.


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TwilightPrincess
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01 Jun 2019, 7:46 pm

TimS1980 wrote:
Yes, you mask, from one point of view...

I mask, and I think there are elements of masking in your behaviors / history you described.

I think there is a deeper point, though, which you've alluded to already, and I'll try to explore a bit more:

We start out a certain way, and we accrete new bits of personality over time. This process is driven by the way we think and behave.

I bet you can recall, as can I, childhood instances where you experienced social judgement /consequences that you couldn't predict ahead of time. That feeds into further observations about the origin of anxiety in Autistics, but it also leads to us trying to modify our behaviors and to fit in.

These modified behaviors are masking.

To speak to the point of ambiguity you raised, these behaviors also just became "who we are", because what we do over time tends to accrete on to the sum of who we are.

Thus, I think this is a theory which integrates and explains both the "this is masking" and "this is me" perspectives.


That’s an interesting idea.

I do like some things about who I am when I’m around other people, but on the other hand, sometimes I feel like I’m no one at all. It’s weird.

I think I need to work on allowing myself to state my opinions more, talk more, and just be less shy.


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kraftiekortie
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01 Jun 2019, 7:50 pm

I feel whether one is “masking” or not is a matter of degree.

Every cognitively aware person adapts to some degree to the society at large.

“Masking” is when this is taken to extremes—when one’s true essence is enveloped by seeking to conform.



hurtloam
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01 Jun 2019, 9:58 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel whether one is “masking” or not is a matter of degree.

Every cognitively aware person adapts to some degree to the society at large.

“Masking” is when this is taken to extremes—when one’s true essence is enveloped by seeking to conform.


Yes, I was going to say this too. Everyone adapts otherwise we'd all shout at each other like toddlers.

For those on the spectrum the adaptation to how your peers interact is more difficult to learn.

I feel quite comfortable with who I am now.

Now that I have more life experience I feel like I can genuinely relate to others on some level, whereas when I was younger I was bewildered by people or found them boring.

I used to find office work tasks bewildering because I couldn't quite figure out what was expected of me, but with more experience I understand my tasks better and don't feel like I have to guess so much what people expect of me. I can't remember now why I found work so difficult when I was younger, I just remember feeling overwhelmed and misunderstood. Now it's just obvious to me.

I don't feel less like me. I just have more experience now.



breaks0
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01 Jun 2019, 10:27 pm

Thank you all for sharing. This is very educational for me.



hurtloam
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02 Jun 2019, 4:01 am

I don't know if I'm still obviously autistic.

People commented on it when I was in my late teens. People who knew other autistic people or who had autistic family. But no one has asked me recently.

I wonder if I was just slow to develop socially... oh wait... is that what autism is? I feel like I've changed so much that I'm nothing like the person I used to be.



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02 Jun 2019, 9:05 am

I am fortunate to have activities where I don't have to mask my true self. I can talk about tennis when I'm at the tennis court, I can talk about nearly anything to my true friends and can talk about cats (and pets in general) to fellow pet people. I have found it is actually better to use discretion in certain areas. I value my privacy and don't feel I have to speak my mind all the time.