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cyberdad
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11 Nov 2020, 2:54 am

League_Girl wrote:
I have noticed this in every human. I have seen so much lack of empathy but yet they can care about animals or care about certain other people.


Precisely, I think its a survival strategy evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to socially care for your offspring/family/community who's survival also matters to you. But then they saw outsiders as potential competition for scarce resources so switched off the empathy when they have to slaughter "the enemy"



uncommondenominator
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11 Nov 2020, 4:00 am

As many autistic people as there are in the world, and as diverse as their lives and needs and wants are, it's no surprise that we can't "agree" on what we want or need, especially since we are NOT all the same, by any stretch of the imagination. A nonverbal sensory avoidant person is probably going to need very different help than a highly verbal sensory seeking person.

From there, the nature of the help needed / wanted splits up a bit. Some people want help in the form of assistance that helps them do it for themselves. Some people just want it done for them. Some people don't want to be expected to do it at all. Not every expectation is a reasonable one, when you actually listen to what some people want. Some people just want a little slack. Some people want the world served to them on a platter.

Differing ideas of what autistics want/need is mostly only contradicting if one assumes that all autistics are the same. What I need is not what you need, and vice versa. That doesn't make those needs mutually exclusive, or contradictory - it just makes them *unique* to the individual experiencing those needs. Part of the reason autism is difficult to provide assistance for is *because* the needs and wants are so diverse.

Selective empathy is not a trait unique to NT's. There's more than enough selective empathy on WP alone to go around. "Resources" are not the only reasons used to justify this. "Morality", "entitlement", "bigotry", all of these can be used to justify being selective about whom you empathize with. Whatever the rationalizations / reasons are, if you show empathy in one instance and not another, that's being selective.

Even if you have a reason why, if you treat one person different from another, you're being selective. And it doesn't have to be malicious - if someone punched you in the nose, and then walked into a pole and smacked *their* face into it, not many people would feel empathy for that person. Call it karma, or turnabout, or "fair", but it's still selective empathy. Not many people are willing to show empathy for someone they don't like. That too is selective empathy. Justified, but still selective. Something to think about.



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11 Nov 2020, 10:22 pm

Joe90 wrote:
skibum wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I do find that there are far more contradictions that go on here than just what certain Aspies like to label autism as.

Like the empathy s**t. Loads of Aspies here think NTs have 100% empathy in any given situation and Aspies have 0% empathy for others.
There could be a whole thread discussing agreeably to how most NTs feel empathy for those that have experienced the same as them as not so much for those that haven't, but then another thread pops up with the OP whining about how they only can feel empathy for those that have experienced the same as them and everyone agrees like "oh yes, autistics can only feel empathy for others experiencing the same as us".

Empathy this, empathy that, I wish the blessed word did not exist.
???? What are you talking about? I don't feel those sentiments at all here.


Believe me, it does.
That's a shame


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11 Nov 2020, 10:37 pm

cyberdad wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I have noticed this in every human. I have seen so much lack of empathy but yet they can care about animals or care about certain other people.


Precisely, I think its a survival strategy evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to socially care for your offspring/family/community who's survival also matters to you. But then they saw outsiders as potential competition for scarce resources so switched off the empathy when they have to slaughter "the enemy"


Yup.
Tribalism is encoded into our genetic makeup.
Simples. 8)



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11 Nov 2020, 10:42 pm

Joe90 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
NTs can switch it on and off (empathy).

The Nazi eisengruppen murdered hundreds of people with their bare hands but they were loving husbands to their wives and fathers to their children.


It's because they were nazis. Most NTs cannot go from one end of the empathy scale to the other end drastically like that.

I don't think I could have been a nazi. I'll probably be so painfully empathetic and guilty about the Jews (and anyone else they tortured) that the other nazis would probably shoot me because they'll think I was one of them.


If given the choice of "Do it or you will be shot", I imagine a lot of Amerikans would have "done it" also. 8O



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11 Nov 2020, 10:44 pm

League_Girl wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
[quote="Joe90/]
It's because they were nazis. Most NTs cannot go from one end of the empathy scale to the other end drastically like that.
.[/quote]

Correct on both points.

But these men were first human. They were capable of the worst possible behaviour a human being can commit but all evidence points to them being able to show tremendous love and empathy for the family and community.

NTs are capable of switching it on and off. All of them.[/quote][/quote]

I have noticed this in every human. I have seen so much lack of empathy but yet they can care about animals or care about certain other people.[/quote][/quote][/quote]


Animals are better than people.
Skunks, more so.
What can I say? :mrgreen:



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11 Nov 2020, 10:58 pm

About EMPATHY...Please allow me to share my story...About two weeks ago, i was cutting vegetables when I inadvertenly cut my finger with a new chef knife...Suddenly, it began to bleed profousely, and i got really scared...I rushed to my husband for help...He immediately reached for the alcohol, held my hand, and began pouring alcohol on my cut...Then he handed me one of his clean socks and asked me to apply pressure to it...Meanwhile, he asked me where i had placed our emergency kit...He soon found it, and he wrapped my finger with bandages...(All the while, my Mom was watching closely)...

I went back to the kitchen and continued cooking...My beloved (Aspie) husband evidently still concerned about me, kept checking on me to make sure i was fine...

Shortly after, my Mom commented on incident, specifically referring to my husband...She said in Spanish, "Any other man would have cared less!! !"...Her words clearly express her AWE in the tender manner in which my husband treats me...For the record, the above is not an isolated incident...My husband is very respectful, considerate, and patient with me...He is also a great listener...Of course, i try to reciprocate in the same way...

In conclusion, Aspies must be like NTs in that we give our empathy to whoever inspires it...Good night, everyone.... :heart: :heart: :heart:



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13 Nov 2020, 6:05 am

Clueless2017 wrote:
About EMPATHY...Please allow me to share my story...About two weeks ago, i was cutting vegetables when I inadvertenly cut my finger with a new chef knife...Suddenly, it began to bleed profousely, and i got really scared...I rushed to my husband for help...He immediately reached for the alcohol, held my hand, and began pouring alcohol on my cut...Then he handed me one of his clean socks and asked me to apply pressure to it...Meanwhile, he asked me where i had placed our emergency kit...He soon found it, and he wrapped my finger with bandages...(All the while, my Mom was watching closely)...

I went back to the kitchen and continued cooking...My beloved (Aspie) husband evidently still concerned about me, kept checking on me to make sure i was fine...

Shortly after, my Mom commented on incident, specifically referring to my husband...She said in Spanish, "Any other man would have cared less!! !"...Her words clearly express her AWE in the tender manner in which my husband treats me...For the record, the above is not an isolated incident...My husband is very respectful, considerate, and patient with me...He is also a great listener...Of course, i try to reciprocate in the same way...

In conclusion, Aspies must be like NTs in that we give our empathy to whoever inspires it...Good night, everyone.... :heart: :heart: :heart:


Yes. Some (in fact a lot of) Aspies can feel things very deeply and be sensitive to other people's emotional or physical pain.
I used to work with an Aspie man, and he was very thoughtful of others, in fact he was more thoughtful than the average (NT) man. He'd do small favours for you by predicting what would make life easy for you. Like if you're running late and haven't put away your work equipment, he'd automatically come and do it for you. Also he'll let you know things in advance so that you won't be rushing at the last minute. He was one of the easiest people I have ever worked with, and I didn't take advantage of his thoughtfulness either. He'd just do these little favours without me expecting it. He was so sweet as a person.

I actually am very influenced by other people's feelings. In fact, I can't even pull "April fools" jokes on anyone because the few seconds they are fooled I will physically feel their emotion and I'll just get uncomfortable.

But on WP some members will do anything to doubt that any Aspie has the capability to have empathy. Some might try to tell you that your husband has sympathy only, or may try to tell me that I have compassion only. It would be easier if people just admitted that Aspies can have empathy and aren't all completely blind to emotions.

Every Aspie is different, just like Alzheimer's patients. When I worked at a care home for elderly people with dementia, every single one of them was different to each other, and the only thing they had in common was their brain shrinking because they were all somewhere on the "dementia spectrum" (if that is the right term to use). It's the same with everyone on the autism spectrum. The only thing everyone on the autism spectrum has in common is...well, that they have an autism spectrum disorder, a different brain wiring (diagnosed or not). So having autism does not automatically mean that we will all lack empathy with no exceptions.


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13 Nov 2020, 8:04 am

Joe90 wrote:
Clueless2017 wrote:
About EMPATHY...Please allow me to share my story...About two weeks ago, i was cutting vegetables when I inadvertenly cut my finger with a new chef knife...Suddenly, it began to bleed profousely, and i got really scared...I rushed to my husband for help...He immediately reached for the alcohol, held my hand, and began pouring alcohol on my cut...Then he handed me one of his clean socks and asked me to apply pressure to it...Meanwhile, he asked me where i had placed our emergency kit...He soon found it, and he wrapped my finger with bandages...(All the while, my Mom was watching closely)...

I went back to the kitchen and continued cooking...My beloved (Aspie) husband evidently still concerned about me, kept checking on me to make sure i was fine...

Shortly after, my Mom commented on incident, specifically referring to my husband...She said in Spanish, "Any other man would have cared less!! !"...Her words clearly express her AWE in the tender manner in which my husband treats me...For the record, the above is not an isolated incident...My husband is very respectful, considerate, and patient with me...He is also a great listener...Of course, i try to reciprocate in the same way...

In conclusion, Aspies must be like NTs in that we give our empathy to whoever inspires it...Good night, everyone.... :heart: :heart: :heart:


Yes. Some (in fact a lot of) Aspies can feel things very deeply and be sensitive to other people's emotional or physical pain.
I used to work with an Aspie man, and he was very thoughtful of others, in fact he was more thoughtful than the average (NT) man. He'd do small favours for you by predicting what would make life easy for you. Like if you're running late and haven't put away your work equipment, he'd automatically come and do it for you. Also he'll let you know things in advance so that you won't be rushing at the last minute. He was one of the easiest people I have ever worked with, and I didn't take advantage of his thoughtfulness either. He'd just do these little favours without me expecting it. He was so sweet as a person.

I actually am very influenced by other people's feelings. In fact, I can't even pull "April fools" jokes on anyone because the few seconds they are fooled I will physically feel their emotion and I'll just get uncomfortable.

But on WP some members will do anything to doubt that any Aspie has the capability to have empathy. Some might try to tell you that your husband has sympathy only, or may try to tell me that I have compassion only. It would be easier if people just admitted that Aspies can have empathy and aren't all completely blind to emotions.

Every Aspie is different, just like Alzheimer's patients. When I worked at a care home for elderly people with dementia, every single one of them was different to each other, and the only thing they had in common was their brain shrinking because they were all somewhere on the "dementia spectrum" (if that is the right term to use). It's the same with everyone on the autism spectrum. The only thing everyone on the autism spectrum has in common is...well, that they have an autism spectrum disorder, a different brain wiring (diagnosed or not). So having autism does not automatically mean that we will all lack empathy with no exceptions.


Thank you for your response above...And thank you for sharing your experience...If i may add...I hear about NTs, mostly females, who complain on the internet about their Aspie partner, or ex-husband, claiming that Aspies have no sympathy, no empathy, no compassion whatsoever...I think they are clueless--in the same way that i once was or maybe still am to some degree...They are probably 'measuring' their significant-other with the 'yardstick' that one would measure an NT partner...Doing this is unfair to their Aspie partner, and it will surely lead to many misunderstandings and conflict in the relationship...

Please allow me to illustrate with one example...When i was courting he who became my beloved (Aspie) husband, we used to hold hands in public...That soon changed once married...He became uncomfortable or it had been uncomfortable to him all the while...This, i do not know; he won't tell me...Suffice to say, the more i insisted, the more i felt rejected by him...Without any explanation from him, one day i had a "Wow" moment and realized that doing so probably feels unnatural to him...And i finally understood that he had done so throughout our courtship only to please me...Instead of feeling upset, i felt grateful for his effort...From the NT perspective, a partner who makes one feel rejected is NOT loving...However, with a better understanding of autistic traits, the NT in the relationship learns to 'read' her partner's love language...Doing this saves the relationship...

As for my beloved (Aspie) husband, he has carried me in his arms twice in the course of this pandemic, because i was too weak and fragile (due to some health afflictions--NOT Covid 19)... Each time, i did NOT ask him to carry me in his arms; he intuitively saw the need...Very few NT husbands would do this even if they clearly saw the need...So, to those who say that Aspies are NOT loving, i would simply say: You are not understanding their love language... :wink:

Post Script: One more thing: If, in fact, what my husband does for me is only sympathy, why won't he do this for others???! !!...Simple, all these small acts of kindness towards me are his way of showing his love for ME... :heart: :heart: :heart: