Pathological Demand Avoidance

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After starting a thread recently, I was told about this series of traits and characteristics in some people with autism called "Pathological demand avoidance". Basically "Demand" appears to be an essential life requirements (transporting yourself, washing, doing paperwork) "Pathological" obviously means constant and you're not particularly bright if you have no idea what "Avoidance" means.

At the moment it's not a recognised diagnosis but I'm assuming should it ever become one, it might need to have the following criteria for a diagnosis:-

Sufferer must actually be capable of performing the tasks and isn't "avoiding" tasks because they genuinely can't perform them (physical disability or low cognitive ability)

Sufferer must put up resistance when asked to perform said tasks by making excuses, distancing themselves from people expecting him/her to complete them or just highlighting their "inability" to do them with no reasonable explanation as to why they are unable.

Sufferer must depend on others for basic needs if these tasks are not completed. Their lives revolve on what others do for them and when, leading others to assume the sufferer is extremely childish (which is probably true)

The tasks must be basic and essential to living life as an adult (or child) and not ones that would naturally be avoided or non essential (like being asked to bungee jump or do someone else's tax returns.)

When questioned about their true capabilities and if they really need all the support they request, the sufferer blows a gasket and show signs of hostility.

Does anyone have any examples of people they know in real life who fit this criteria? If so share.

Last edited by Nades on 11 Jan 2022, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

One need look no further than the Love and Dating section of this website, especially those threads wherein the originator posts a subject line to the effect that he cannot get a girlfriend.

Lazy people?

Criteria have already been proposed, some of which seem rather different to yours, and suggest a deeper knowledge of the supposed condition that I certainly don't have, and therefore I can't explain what some of those things are doing in there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathologi ... c_criteria

It suggests the underlying cause is "a high level of anxiety, usually from expectations of demands being placed on children, which can lead to a feeling of not being in control of a situation."

One thing I like about your proposed criteria is that (unlike Newson's) they at least touch upon the nature of the demands in terms of whether or not they're reasonable - "The tasks must be basic and essential to living life as an adult (or child) and not ones that would naturally be avoided or non essential (like being asked to bungee jump or do someone else's tax returns.)" To me that's a very important consideration, to prevent the whole thing being used as an excuse to force people to obey unreasonable commands. There may be a better definition of what's reasonable, but I think the matter may be so meshed with politics and subjectivity that it would be hard to do.

I don't know whether it would be good or bad for it to officially medicalise it as a condition. I see it's been associated with ASD. Judging by the topics you've created here and there, I get the impression you feel very strongly that there's a big problem with Aspies being overdependent on outside help, and with society being too accommodating to their apparent needs.

I think the causes of it are the same for both children and adults being anxiety and fear of the unknown.

My "criteria" are different but are more focussed on adults. I noticed that when it comes to autism, the usual thinking is to only focus on children and completely ignore adults (as they always do, it will never change). I don't dislike the "child" version of Pathological demand avoidance as it's pretty much the only version available but logically, these children turn into adults with different demands expected of them, more heavily entrenched stubbornness, more capable of manipulation and more severe consequences like social shunning if they continue with "avoidance" strategies. Being adults as well, rewards can come quicker as they're legally recognised as adults and any strategies that might develop at dealing with an adult with PDA can be less forgiving.

That woman with a perfectly average IQ who refused to pick up a tablet and demanding someone deliver it to her house in person for example will quickly learn how to travel by herself if she's dumped by her aunt in the middle of Cardiff and drives off. She'll eventually return home one way or another and can't get lost forever. (she relies on her for a lot of her travel needs along with buses)

My views are strong on overdependence of aspies and I believe a lot unknowingly exaggerate their incompetence because they just dislike doing new tasks and know family or friends will pick up the slack. (or me)

It might actually extend into relationships thinking of it haha.

Well, it really refers to disease, pain, and suffering. So the behaviors would best be understood in that context. For example, a pathological liar may have grown up in an environment where lying got them the most reward and least abuse.

I feel sure that it does, especially among certain purveyors of life-sucking, utter misery who are so focused on themselves that they see no possibility of attaining any self-improvement, and who consider anyone who even suggests self-improvement as detractors..

Yeah, I have found a lot of Autistic people to be like this. They want everything from you, but give nothing much in return, unless it benefits them.

I don't know him but Issac Russell has a video on it.

↑ Difficult to follow.  Even the transcript seems disjointed and irregular.

Ah.

Kinda like strange a mix of OCD and ODD rolled into autism in my opinion.
I wonder...

While there's a distinction from oppositional defiant disorder alone from PDA...
How much of PDA is like and unlike OCD?

^^The audio is out of synch, best to watch with your eyes closed as it is indeed difficult to follow.

I only listened to it in mobile, on earphones, while cooking my breakfast...
Didn't knew the video and audio was out of sync.

This might explain https://rationaldemandavoidancecom.file ... thread.pdf

Mmmm breakfast drool!