What is the difference between NTs and AS

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MrMacPhisto
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31 Jul 2007, 1:25 pm

It is a question I have been wondering I don't know if there is much difference at all. Can anyone help me I hope I am not offending anyone???



LabPet
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31 Jul 2007, 1:36 pm

Look at the recent threat about Theory of Mind; there were many relevant posts (including mine). This might answer your question!


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31 Jul 2007, 2:01 pm

In my personal case, the biggest difference is they believe in the value of lying and I don't.

Lying: hypocrisy, white lies, lies to get ahead, faking, pretending, manipulation, etc.


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abstrusemortal
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31 Jul 2007, 2:11 pm

NT'S are supposedly equipped with a better imagination, thereby allowing them to accurately know what a person is thinking, i.e. TOM (Theory of Mind).

I believe that is a load of bollocks. Famous people with Asperger's Syndrome, such as Daniel Tammet, who visualize numbers in a way that requires the imagination, although another name for it is synthesia, prove that people with Asperger's do indeed have a powerful right side of the brain. And if you believe that Einstein might have had Asperger's Syndrome, his great success came from his thought experiment, i.e. imaging himself on a beam of light.

The only one who can really tell the difference is the person who has AS. People with AS know how difficult it is to encounter a social situation and be completely without a clue as to how to first start interacting. Awkwardness is one thing but it's just a lack of intuition that probably is one of the main characteristics of AS.


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LabPet
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31 Jul 2007, 2:13 pm

Oh no....typo! I would edit, but I won't, because it's funny! I meant "recent thread" not "threat!" The thread is in General Autism Discussion. There's a fine line between a typo and a Freudian slip.
Separate thought: Guess what! Today is my birthday. I actually did forget my birthday and I'm in the midst of moving.


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Irulan
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31 Jul 2007, 2:30 pm

LabPet wrote:
Oh no....typo! I would edit, but I won't, because it's funny! I meant "recent thread" not "threat!" The thread is in General Autism Discussion. There's a fine line between a typo and a Freudian slip.
Separate thought: Guess what! Today is my birthday. I actually did forget my birthday and I'm in the midst of moving.


I often make this mistake about thread and threat but it's because English is not my native language. Once, I remember, I read about a Japanese woman who decided to live in Poland - in the interview in one of my mother's womanish magazines she was talking about her mistakes concerning similarly sounding words - for example she always made a mistake about kalafior (cauliflower) and kaloryfer (radiator) - it happened to her that buying food products she wanted to buy a radiator to make a soup of it :D

Happy birthday :) How old are you now?



Asby
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31 Jul 2007, 2:35 pm

I read the theory of mind and it doesen't make sense. Asbies have the capacity to imagine about feelings and emotions but they are either too withdrawn or wrapped in their own world to take notice of them or proccess the relevent reactions.


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MrSinister
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31 Jul 2007, 2:46 pm

Imagine life as a football field. While Aspies are on the pitch with fixed views around them, NTs are in the Goodyear blimp above the field, with a wider view (and, perhaps - but not always - understanding) of the proceedings.

Of course, being in the blimp means they have farther to fall, so I think we're better off :P


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violentcloud
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31 Jul 2007, 3:01 pm

Mostly, it determines which kind of showers you'll be using once I'm in charge. Not looking forward to THAT gas bill...



2ukenkerl
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31 Jul 2007, 5:33 pm

I LOVE Greentea's statement. It is odd that many AS people HATE lying, and may not lie. Frankly, I hate lying, and am reluctant to. There are other things too. But there are just too many permutations to mention.



raefactor
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31 Jul 2007, 8:47 pm

I have *something* on the PDD spectrum, only God knows what, though... my brother has AS, my great-aunt and my uncle (they're close in age, actually) both have AS, and my grandma has a definite ASD.... I won't got out and actually get tested (*hides in shame*) because the line of work I want to go into will discriminate against me if I have that kind of diagnosis... and yes, they can... but anyways, back from the tangent:

I lie through my teeth. I seriously think I might be becoming a pathological liar... manipulative people don't bother me, and I have no qualms with lying to/about people to get my way. Somewhere inside I know that's really bad, and sometimes I just tell the truth, but I've been doing it forever and can't make myself stop. I've faked plenty of stuff, for personal gain and to save someone else embarrassment... but that's sort of what I was raised to do anyways, so I'm confused. :P



nobodyzdream
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01 Aug 2007, 3:08 am

I often question this also. Many people I know are fully capable of thinking the way I do, but I feel the difference is that they can shut it off to socialize or respond to something... and they don't tend to think all of the time about everything, analyzing and all. I occasionally hear "wow, I would love to make you an experiment and do some research", which actually doesn't bother me, as I find the way my mind works at times very interesting as well.

But I always ask-why am I considered autistic when you can think the exact same way I do? There are plenty of people who are deep in thought and don't like to socialize, and a lot of them just choose not to. I'm really not sure what the difference between myself and someone who just likes to stay isolated from everybody is.... but there apparently is one, as I've talked to a few that are like that and they too, find me quite interesting at times.

NTs can be picky as well with food, but I suppose the difference is that they choose to be picky and it isn't the texture or smell of food that bothers them, or the color and whatnot. Every NT I know hates a ton of noise going on all at once, but they don't seem to get flustered as I do. They question things when they feel it to be beneficial, or are just having a "moment"....

it is a very interesting question, as most all can say "I do that too" when you describe something, but it seems to be in the way it is described or analyzed that separates us.... that and the lack of intuition when talking to people.


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Danielismyname
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01 Aug 2007, 4:03 am

Diagnostic Criteria for Asperger's disorder, i.e., normal people are "not this":

[The following is from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV]
(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."



fresco
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01 Aug 2007, 5:31 am

I can read people okay my problem is I'm bogged down by details its like living in a microscope and I can't forward plan either.



Irulan
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01 Aug 2007, 8:46 am

2ukenkerl wrote:
I LOVE Greentea's statement. It is odd that many AS people HATE lying, and may not lie. Frankly, I hate lying, and am reluctant to. There are other things too. But there are just too many permutations to mention.


I can lie very well but only when I don't want to be punished for something I've done - normally I've a compulsion of telling the truth - it would be illogical to say that something is white while in fact it is black. It's like calling a dog a cat even if you feed it with Whiskas - it is and always be a dog. This animal can only pretend to be a cat and it is simply illogical to say it's Felis silvestris catus instead of Canis lupus familiaris. When somebody asks me a question I feel an irresistible impulse to answer sincerely and with details, even if a question is sarcastic.



nobodyzdream
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01 Aug 2007, 11:29 am

Danielismyname wrote:
Diagnostic Criteria for Asperger's disorder, i.e., normal people are "not this":

[The following is from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV]
(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."


lol, I think this could be where the confusion comes in. They really do play up on the fact that we think differently, and NTs will always say "but you don't LOOK autistic". If you tell an NT you just don't like socializing as it seems to be a waste of time, they are boggled. My boyfriend and I debated the point of socializing last night, and his end conclusion was "okay, so while you are right about it really having very little of a point, and while people do just run around talking to each other to establish some general point of view of themselves (such as talking to everyone makes them look like a nice guy, or can get them a promotion at a job), it is still something people do, and I cannot give you an actual reason." lol. It was interesting how he realizes there isn't much of a point unless it is for something very specific and all, but he still insists that it serves so many purposes. I guess that is what separates us. I get annoyed when trying to explain things to them and they say "well, I'm like that too sometimes", or "everybody has those moments", and it really makes me curious about what exactly sets us apart if everybody has similar problems. I guess for us it is just an all the time thing rather than just every once in a while?

I've seen people say things like "defeat autism now"... I don't really get annoyed by them, but I get annoyed by their logic. They act like we are an inconvenience, but once you talk to them for a bit, they often change their tune, or they act like you are horrible to have to speak with, while they are saying they do all of the same things that you do. I don't get how we can be such an annoyance when we don't talk to many people, and surely aren't trying to get in the way of others, lol. But it's just that much more frustrating when someone says it, then they rattle off a list, and you respond with things that are very similar and they admit to doing all of them, but they won't change their opinion at all, or accept it.


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