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Hip Albatross
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06 Apr 2022, 6:34 am

Hi,

New member here.

I recently have been reading about "the self being an illusion", that can even be pointed out in a brain scan.

Also I read some research that showed that people with autism have low or no "activity" in the regions that are related to "the self".

The research said that people with autism experience social/emotional stuff like its a "play" or a movie.

I do recognise this and think that is the best way to explain it to others.

This makes me wondering why there isn't more research on this topic, or even a theory behind it. It would even mean that people with autism are less selfcentered, in a way, opposing the original meaning of autism itself.

My question to you is, do you recognize this? Do you know what people mean when they are talking about a "self"?
And if so, is it about historical facts about you. About feeling/ emotions or about the experience of being?

Would love to add some articles here but
Cant share resources as a new user.



naturalplastic
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06 Apr 2022, 7:03 am

Its all opaque to me.



timf
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06 Apr 2022, 7:18 am

I can recognize the gap or disconnect in real time social situations. However, I attribute this to more analysis of what is observed (like watching a movie) rather than selflessness. Although I would think a lot of this would depend on how one defines selfless.



AprilR
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06 Apr 2022, 11:42 am

I also read somewhere that autistics have a low sense of self. It is so true for me, and was a big clue to me that i was autistic. I constantly emulate others behavior so much i no longer know who i am.



Hip Albatross
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06 Apr 2022, 11:51 am

Thanks for the replies.
It surely depends on the definition.

I myself have the biggest difficulty with defining who i am, whenever i get the question "who are you?".

I can tell you about my life and stuff i have done in the past that i liked. But I couldnt tell who I am or what I like. While neurotypicals seem to precisely know what is ment, when the question comes up.

I have struggled with the imitation part aswell, but im glad to know it isn't just that. That I should just be myself and all the problems would be solved :P



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06 Apr 2022, 12:09 pm

Maybe you are a latent Buddhist . . .

Image



Hip Albatross
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06 Apr 2022, 12:55 pm

That's a funny comic.

And indeed exactly what im talking about. The monks have been talking about the self (and selflessness) for thousands of years.

Someone told me about that some 15 years ago and I just didn't get what he was talking about :lol:

Dont you recognize that?



HighLlama
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06 Apr 2022, 3:04 pm

Hip Albatross wrote:
Hi,

New member here.

I recently have been reading about "the self being an illusion", that can even be pointed out in a brain scan.

Also I read some research that showed that people with autism have low or no "activity" in the regions that are related to "the self".

The research said that people with autism experience social/emotional stuff like its a "play" or a movie.

I do recognise this and think that is the best way to explain it to others.

This makes me wondering why there isn't more research on this topic, or even a theory behind it. It would even mean that people with autism are less selfcentered, in a way, opposing the original meaning of autism itself.

My question to you is, do you recognize this? Do you know what people mean when they are talking about a "self"?
And if so, is it about historical facts about you. About feeling/ emotions or about the experience of being?

Would love to add some articles here but
Cant share resources as a new user.


I relate to that a lot. I've always found self/identity an odd/unreal concept. I think showing this illusion was much of Shakespeare's project.



Joe90
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06 Apr 2022, 3:20 pm

It's funny though how autism means "self" yet a lot of us are actually less self-focused than what the name suggests. Why have a lifelong disorder that means almost the opposite to how you are? Why did they have to call it Autism? I think I would be a lot more confident in disclosing my condition if it was called something else. The word Autism always reminds me of this little boy I once met when I was a child, who was severely autistic, and I was a bit scared of him. He was completely locked in his own head, non-verbal and could only shout "aaaaaarrrggghhh", and even had huge meltdowns if other children came to play in his playroom. That is the classic example of autism. Me, I shouldn't have to be lumped together with autism.


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quaker
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06 Apr 2022, 3:24 pm

Hi Hip Albatross,

Could you please share with us the details of this book or article. I would like to see it in full.

Many thanks,



jimmy m
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06 Apr 2022, 4:11 pm

I suffered a massive stroke a year ago. As a result, I began reading some interesting theories about stroke damage and how the human brain works. One of the books was very interesting. It discussed the human brain and how it works. According to the book, the human brain has two sides (two brains). One on the left side is dominant. The other side which is the right side is secondary. Each side of the brain has two parts (one is large and one is small). So essentially everyone has four parts (personalities) that create the complete person that we are. It is a very interesting book. I believe over 50 percent of the book is spot on. But I disagree with some parts.

The book is called Whole Brain Living written by Jill Bolte Taylor and was published last year. It is a very interesting read. Jill suffered a major stroke around the age of 35. That was around 20 years ago. She was a medical doctor in a very prominent university in the U.S. After the stroke she became an entirely different person. She went from a left brain dominant to a right brain.


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Hip Albatross
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06 Apr 2022, 4:21 pm

Here are two scientific studies.

https://time.com/3614487/fmri-autism-diagnosis/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 121518.htm

And there was one that went deeper into different aspects of the self.
Purely a literature study I believe:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5572253/



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06 Apr 2022, 6:17 pm

I'm fairly comfortable with my concept of self, as long as I don't try to analyse what it is too deeply. I can talk forever about my self - this post I'm writing now is a bit of it. I think self is a bit like light - we might not find it easy to define exactly, but most of us know what it is.



HighLlama
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07 Apr 2022, 4:02 am

Joe90 wrote:
It's funny though how autism means "self" yet a lot of us are actually less self-focused than what the name suggests. Why have a lifelong disorder that means almost the opposite to how you are? Why did they have to call it Autism? I think I would be a lot more confident in disclosing my condition if it was called something else.


Because all the language of autism comes from non-autistic people, and is based on their perception of us--not how we experience things. Since they want us to mirror them and we don't, we are "selfish." And, yeah, I bet we'd all feel more confident disclosing if the language was more positive. But, it's designed to shame us for not serving them and their worldview.



Hip Albatross
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07 Apr 2022, 4:40 am

Wauw really great responses. Love it!

People seem to confuse the words egoistic and egocentric.
People with autism (as backed by the biased sample in this thread) are less egocentric.

But i kind of have to admit that the condition makes me a bit egoistic. (All depending on context ofcourse). I wish everyone the best, but im not very caring for people outside of my direct family.

With regard to "the Self".
I had this conversation with my non autistic sister about the self. And it appears like these neurotypicals are carrying a "box" around with everything they refer to as themself.

Whenever something happens they put something in the box or take something out. But the box is always there.

When a situation changes, they always carry the same box, but in a new environment. So 80% stays the same.
While i feel like everything is different in a new "unknown" environment.
:idea: Just some thoughts on the topic.

I wonder wether the lack of self is causing the lack of central cohesion or wether a limited central cohesion is causing a limited refference of the self.



autisticelders
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07 Apr 2022, 8:18 am

glad you posted this, I am interested in self understanding before and after late diagnosis and from my own experience I believe that self understanding is greatly enhanced once we know we are autistic after years of struggle. I have been researching just this topic at present so your post is timely and very relevant to me. thank you


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