Preference of the terms "Autistic" or "Person with Autism"?

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Do you prefer the term "autistic" or "person with autism"?
I prefer "autistic" 64%  64%  [ 36 ]
I prefer "person with autism" 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
I prefer neither "autistic" nor "person with autism" 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
I am indifferent (Either/both is/are acceptable) 29%  29%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 56

skibum
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05 Dec 2022, 2:17 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
skibum wrote:
Sciency_Owen wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Double Retired wrote:
I think "Autistic" and "Autistic Person" are both viable candidates.

I'll admit that when I think about it, I'm not too crazy about "Person with Autism". To me that sounds like Autism is some kind of viral infection. But, other folk might like the term.


Youre missing the point. What he is asking about is an issue known as "person first language". Some make a cause out advocating person first language in autism. Some on this site were passionate about it some years ago.

Some feel strongly that you should refer to the person as "a person with autism" and not as "an autistic" because the latter is labeling them by the diagnosis, and dehumanizes them and so forth. And that it makes a difference - and is better- to say it "person first" to show that they are "a person how happens to have the condition". That the condition is not their whole identity. Some on WP years strong advocated that.

So if you buy into that then "autistic person" is just the same thing as "an autistic". Has the same disadvantage, AND its longer to say on top of that.

I dont advocate person first myself. I think that its silly. I am an aspie. Or I am level one autistic, or whatver. Fine with me. Someone describing me as "a person with aspergers" ? Kinda like saying "I am a person with maleness", or "I am a person with Americanness". Silly. And like you said "a person with autism" sounds like youre supposed to avoid them because their autism might be contagious. Lol!

Can you elaborate on the dehumanisation that occurs when some iteration of the term "autistic" is used? I only ask, as to me, it seems to be a way of categorising people, in the same way you may categorise people by hair colour ie. that is a blond/blond person, that is a brunette/brunette person etc... So that means you could say "my friend X, is an autistic/autistic person" or "I am an autistic/autistic person. I can also say that I myself have not experienced dehumanisation by myself being referred to as autistic, and that the only dehumanisation that actually occurs comes from stigma around autism itself, not labels.


Using "Autistic" or identity first language is not dehumanizing at all but person first language is. Identity first language is simply descriptive, person first language adds a value judgement, and it is not a good value.

Person first language is incredibly dehumanizing. If you have to remind yourself that I am a person every time you address me or talk about me, that's because you don't believe I am one. Person first language has nothing to do with making sure that I feel like a person instead of my label or disability. The only reason that I could possibly feel like a label or possibly feel that I am just my disability is if other people make me feel that way by how they treat me. If neurotypical people actually treated me with respect and if they treated me as if I were their human equal, they would have no reason to remind me that they think I am a person. I know I am a person and Autism is not a problem for me. I am severely challenged as a level three Autistic not because I am Autistic but because I am constantly socially abused and neurologically tortured by how non Autistic people treat me. They treat me as if I was not person. So for them to feel better about being so socially abusive, they decided to use person first language so that they can convince themselves that they treat me humanely. So once they have convinced themselves of that, they can continue living in this delusion convincing themselves that they respect us while they continue to socially abuse us.

If you look at the history of person first language and how it came about, it was started by a community of people who had HIV and Aids. They created person first language because they were not being allowed to have control over their own medical decisions. They had to remind the medical community that they were people who had the basic right of autonomy and that they had the right to make medical decisions for themselves. But now when people use person first language, they say it's to make the person they are talking to feel like a person first.

Why do they automatically assume that I don't know that I am a person? The only reason someone would assume that is if they don't consider me a person. That is dehumanizing.


Back when allistics demanding the use of person-first language was a thing because they claimed identity first language is offensive I told them I have been Autistic for six decades more than you so I get to decide what is offensive to me not you. Shut them up every time.


:hail: :hail: :hail:
That is one of the BEST responses I have ever heard!! !! LOVE it!! ! I will definitely use it. THANK YOU!! !! !! !! !!


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05 Dec 2022, 2:23 pm

There are other things in life more important than semantic distinctions.

As long as a person treats me with dignity, I don't care whether I'm called "autistic" or "a person with autism."



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05 Dec 2022, 3:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There are other things in life more important than semantic distinctions.

As long as a person treats me with dignity, I don't care whether I'm called "autistic" or "a person with autism."
That is very true. But unfortunately, and I can speak for myself, and I believe that many Autistic people might feel this way, I know that my Autistic friends in real life certainly feel this way, we don't get treated with dignity and respect. When we do, it's so rare that it completely takes us by surprise. If we actually did get treated with dignity and respect, what people called us wouldn't really matter. But it's because we are so socially mistreated literally all the time and any time we bring it up, neurotypical people explain to us why they are justified in their actions and that we just have to accept it, that the issue of how we are addressed has such importance.

If you are not in a situation where you are feeling the constant social abuse, you are very lucky. But so many of us are not in that situation.


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05 Dec 2022, 6:25 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Looks like most Aspies don't want person-first nomenclature then. It seems that health professionals have decided what's good for us without asking. Personally I don't see why anybody would prefer person-first anything, but if a ND really wanted me to use it, then it'd probably be a case of "oh allright then, it doesn't make sense to me but it doesn't have to." Left to my own devices I'd just use go for the easiest, and that's not the person-first one. I don't normally mix with people who would use my choice as an excuse for Aspie-bashing, and I'd expect them to mock me if I did use person-first to them. The health professionals' views don't matter much to me in this respect.


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tough diamond:

the "health professionals" that decided that "person-first nomenclature" was the current, politically correct method of referring to someone with a diagnosis, had good intentions.

maybe some "people with other diagnoses" (please note that I just used "person first nomenclature" also prefer "person first nomenclature".

quite frankly, i think there is nothing great about being a "person". nor is it necessary to keep reminding someone that they are a "person".

but maybe some people do feel "dehumanized" when they are not constantly reminded that they are people.



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06 Dec 2022, 12:24 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Looks like most Aspies don't want person-first nomenclature then. It seems that health professionals have decided what's good for us without asking. Personally I don't see why anybody would prefer person-first anything, but if a ND really wanted me to use it, then it'd probably be a case of "oh allright then, it doesn't make sense to me but it doesn't have to." Left to my own devices I'd just use go for the easiest, and that's not the person-first one. I don't normally mix with people who would use my choice as an excuse for Aspie-bashing, and I'd expect them to mock me if I did use person-first to them. The health professionals' views don't matter much to me in this respect.


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tough diamond:

the "health professionals" that decided that "person-first nomenclature" was the current, politically correct method of referring to someone with a diagnosis, had good intentions.

maybe some "people with other diagnoses" (please note that I just used "person first nomenclature" also prefer "person first nomenclature".

quite frankly, i think there is nothing great about being a "person". nor is it necessary to keep reminding someone that they are a "person".

but maybe some people do feel "dehumanized" when they are not constantly reminded that they are people.
I think the health professionals maybe had good intentions, but I am not sure. But either way, they don't have the right to insist that people identify the way that they want them to. But I couldn't care less what they insist. They need to respect whatever the individual's choice is.

I had once worked for a company that provides group homes and work for disabled people. The company is called Shadowfax. I am deliberately saying that because I want people to know who they are. I had also worked as a carer for a Parkinson's patient a few years ago. When I was hired at both companies, I had to sign documents saying that I would only use person first language. I tried to refuse to sign them but I was told that I would not be allowed to work if they were not signed so I signed them. A few months later, I was in a meeting at Shadowfax. I said something and I used identity first language. They reprimanded me. I had a fit and told them that if I am talking about myself, I will use identity first language. They told me that I wasn't allowed to even when talking about myself. I eventually got fired from that place because I asked for a disability accommodation so that I could do my job better. When they fired me, they made me sign a document that I would never ever be allowed to work for them ever again in any capacity at all for the rest of my life. I was so disgusted that their company has the same name as Gandalf's Horse.


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06 Dec 2022, 1:30 pm

^
Well yes, in the questionnaire the health professionals' only obvious "crime" was to express a personal preference when asked to do so, and my disdain for their attitude comes from noticing that disconnect between their wishes and ours, which merely smacks of an elitist mindset. It's much more serious when people start using force as they did in your experiences. Some authority decided that it was OK to mess up employees' work opportunities unless they agreed to do a thing that the clients don't want them to do. Ironic that they stole the name of such a sensible horse and then showed a complete lack of horse sense. The world is full of ugly entities with beautiful names.



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06 Dec 2022, 11:48 pm

I refer to myself as autistic.


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07 Dec 2022, 9:48 am

I refer to myself as Wolfman.....

That company that did this to Skibum is ridiculous.



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07 Dec 2022, 11:55 am

New study highlights terms most favoured by autistic people across the globe

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Researchers from across the U21 Autism Research Network, led by a team at the University of Birmingham, carried out a survey of over 650 English-speaking autistic adults across the globe to explore their linguistic preferences. The findings, published in Autism Research, highlighted a number of clear recommendations. The paper represents the first global study into autistic language preferences.

Lead author, Connor Keating, from the University of Birmingham’s School of Psychology, said: “Although we found that some terms were more popular than others, there was no universally accepted way to talk about autism. Due to this variability, many participants highlighted that talking to autistic people and finding out their individual preferences will always be the best way to achieve effective communication.”

The research showed that terms such as “Autistic person”, “Is autistic”, “Neurological/Brain Difference”, “Differences”, “Challenges”, “Difficulties”, “Neurotypical people”, and “Neurotypicals” were among those most favoured by the survey group.

In contrast, terms that were unpopular included “Asperger's syndrome”, “Person with autism/ASD/ASC”, “Has autism”, “Disease”, “Disorder”, “Deficits” and “Impairments”, and “Typical people”.

Significantly, although “Asperger’s syndrome” was popular among some individuals initially diagnosed using this terminology, for others it had extremely negative connotations with a eugenical Nazi regime.

Similarly, a large number of respondents disliked the use of functioning labels. Participants reported that these terms are divisive, as they unnecessarily segregate autistic people, inaccurate, as functioning varies across time and situations, and harmful as it leads to so-called “high-functioning” individuals missing out on support and “low-functioning” people being infantilised or ignored.

Although there was variability in language preferences across the individuals surveyed, there was a clear overall preference for ‘identity first’ terms. These terms, including ‘autistic person’, or ‘neurodivergent person’, were perceived as better acknowledging that autism is a core part of a person’s identity, like gender or ethnicity.

In contrast, ‘person first’ language – ‘person with autism’, for example, was often judged to promote stigma, reinforcing the notion that autism is a defect that must be removed from the individual.

The research showed that terms such as “Autistic person”, “Is autistic”, “Neurological/Brain Difference”, “Differences”, “Challenges”, “Difficulties”, “Neurotypical people”, and “Neurotypicals” were among those most favoured by the survey group.

In contrast, terms that were unpopular included “Asperger's syndrome”, “Person with autism/ASD/ASC”, “Has autism”, “Disease”, “Disorder”, “Deficits” and “Impairments”, and “Typical people”.

Significantly, although “Asperger’s syndrome” was popular among some individuals initially diagnosed using this terminology, for others it had extremely negative connotations with a eugenical Nazi regime.

Similarly, a large number of respondents disliked the use of functioning labels. Participants reported that these terms are divisive, as they unnecessarily segregate autistic people, inaccurate, as functioning varies across time and situations, and harmful as it leads to so-called “high-functioning” individuals missing out on support and “low-functioning” people being infantilised or ignored.

Although there was variability in language preferences across the individuals surveyed, there was a clear overall preference for ‘identity first’ terms. These terms, including ‘autistic person’, or ‘neurodivergent person’, were perceived as better acknowledging that autism is a core part of a person’s identity, like gender or ethnicity.

In contrast, ‘person first’ language – ‘person with autism’, for example, was often judged to promote stigma, reinforcing the notion that autism is a defect that must be removed from the individual.


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07 Dec 2022, 1:57 pm

Interesting.

In Italy, a lot of very complicated terminology prevails in the groups.

Those bother me.

While Asperger's doesn't bother me, many forums go by that word.

Autistic always in Italy is used in a contemptuous way.

Medical evaluations are always done on low functioning and high functioning.

I'll explain why:


functioning mean how an autistic person manages to live in a society that is often incomprehensible to her/him.


Many HFAs and Aspergers do not express themselves beyond three words.

Even if they possess a mind with IQ over 130.


With autism we mean a DSM pathology.

While a condition of the person the HFA is Asperger Subcategory (now though I disagree and there are studies I can publish if requested.

Change and how wow, I did not imagine!

For us



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08 Dec 2022, 4:00 am

The Forum is called like this:

"Wrong Planet" is the leading community forum and resource supporting *people with *autism, *Asperger's Syndrome and other neurological conditions.
§
Maybe it's more politically correct.
§
I suppose it's unlikely that the part that you don't like from the survey will be changed

Because it's complicated and also a request that requires re-programming and there are already only a few moderators, as far as I understand there are 4.

§
That's fine with me, as well as having an idea of ​​how you think, and I'll adapt until the next post in this sense.



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08 Dec 2022, 9:53 pm

Da_Zero_A_Dieci wrote:
The Forum is called like this:

"Wrong Planet" is the leading community forum and resource supporting *people with *autism, *Asperger's Syndrome and other neurological conditions.
§
Maybe it's more politically correct.
§
I suppose it's unlikely that the part that you don't like from the survey will be changed

Because it's complicated and also a request that requires re-programming and there are already only a few moderators, as far as I understand there are 4.

§
That's fine with me, as well as having an idea of ​​how you think, and I'll adapt until the next post in this sense.
This forum was created many many years ago. The description is outdated. I hope Alex will change it.


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09 Dec 2022, 12:36 am

When I read it now:

"Wrong Planet" is the leading community forum and resource supporting people with autism, Asperger's Syndrome and other neurological conditions.


the phrase doesn't seem to have the same contrived, clumsy unnatural feel to it as it does in most of the sentences I've seen that contain that phrase.



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09 Dec 2022, 8:02 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
When I read it now:

"Wrong Planet" is the leading community forum and resource supporting people with autism, Asperger's Syndrome and other neurological conditions.


the phrase doesn't seem to have the same contrived, clumsy unnatural feel to it as it does in most of the sentences I've seen that contain that phrase.
That sounds good to me.


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09 Dec 2022, 7:46 pm

@Skilburn

I will adapt to what you deem useful to describe us.

§

I don't know if Alex has the time to reorganize the layout of the site.

§

You see, psychiatry was a passion of mine.

And many medical terms used are annoying, there are many in DSM 4th and 5th.

§

We used the ICD until 1980.

Now I should read the definition of the last one on the 11th.

§

The strange thing is that they are definitions that go from the 1994 APA to the present day.

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In my opinion, many things must also be changed at the source, i.e. the manuals.

§

When I hear some speeches some terms used bother me too.

Others I use them too, but talking about me.

§

What you write cannot be disregarded
§

Another thing: using effective language it is possible that ordinary people can be able to understand.

Instead we tend to complicate with confusing words what we would like to simplify.
See Manuals and TV, web and online newspapers, Internet diaries

§
You and others write many things right, and in my opinion, even at a high level, it is necessary to make it clear that some terms used are annoying



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10 Dec 2022, 3:29 am

Shadweller wrote:
If it is important to some people that is fine, but I have heard of some social media figures within the Autism community being rejected and bullied for not using the person first terminology that a certain section of the community prefers. I don't think that is right.

I agree. We certainly shouldn't bully people for their choice of word order.

Autistic rights activists/advocates have more than enough more-serious problems to tackle than the existence of people with person-first language-ism.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 10 Dec 2022, 3:41 am, edited 2 times in total.