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Gammeldans
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24 Dec 2022, 6:11 am

Howdy and Merry Xmas!
I read or hear a lot about how we people with ASD are bad at or struggle with paralanguage.

Do you have concrete examples of when people with ASD would struggle with it and when actually being good at it? If so, please give examples.

I was once told by a person that I have a very good voice for reading poetry. I guess, he meant that I recited the peoetry in a very personal way.
Normal social situations are not the same in most cases. We need another paralanguage for those situations, I guess.

I often find that people with ASD can have a very lovely and personal paralanguage. Different from what is "normal".



naturalplastic
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24 Dec 2022, 6:24 am

Never heard the term "paralanguage" before.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 24 Dec 2022, 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Dec 2022, 7:16 am

I had to look up paralanguage too. Spot on though, I do have a very difficult time with reading intent and figuring out context, and any subtle body language, intonations or intimations. My visual processing is 25th percentile and my audio processing is 35th percentile so almost anything I see or hear is at least partially lost. Thank goodness my ability to understand written words and write them is mostly unimpaired. I bet each and every one of us is different , regarding these abilities, autism traits are so often ascribed to all of us but the way we experience any input will vary wildly! the spectrum is a wide one! :)


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24 Dec 2022, 7:39 am

Was told I invent words that I did not know were not words. Is that the same thing?


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ezbzbfcg2
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24 Dec 2022, 8:59 am

If I understand correctly, paralanguage refers to all the nuances "behind the words" a person is speaking. Paralanguage may not really apply to writing. It also factors in not only what is said, but whom is saying it. If an adult says "I'm taking my car to the shop," the listener takes it as a fact. If a child says the same thing, the listener automatically knows the child is role playing.

I think that in addition to Aspies not picking up on these nuances as well as NTs do, there's also the other factor: NTs may misread our paralanguage and assume we're implying something we're not because our tone, vocal pitch, etc. doesn't match their expectations. How many times have people thought you were lying/joking/being sarcastic/being critical when, in your mind, you were simply stating a fact or an observation? Based upon the words used, nothing should have indicated otherwise. Paralanguage refers to the nuances of expression.



Gammeldans
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25 Dec 2022, 6:13 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
If I understand correctly, paralanguage refers to all the nuances "behind the words" a person is speaking. Paralanguage may not really apply to writing. It also factors in not only what is said, but whom is saying it. If an adult says "I'm taking my car to the shop," the listener takes it as a fact. If a child says the same thing, the listener automatically knows the child is role playing.

I think that in addition to Aspies not picking up on these nuances as well as NTs do, there's also the other factor: NTs may misread our paralanguage and assume we're implying something we're not because our tone, vocal pitch, etc. doesn't match their expectations. How many times have people thought you were lying/joking/being sarcastic/being critical when, in your mind, you were simply stating a fact or an observation? Based upon the words used, nothing should have indicated otherwise. Paralanguage refers to the nuances of expression.

Do we have what we can call an "aspie paralanguage"?
I am no expert in this field but I think many people, including non-ASDs, have a very personal paralanguage.
No aspie paralanguage, right?
Have you ever found one?
I know that some of us can have a somewhat monotone voice or refrain from using important body language.
It's like we sometimes use to little of something.
Perhaps some of us actually use too much prosody and body languge.

I have heard a lot about how "aspies" are supposed to be very good at words.
Have you also heard it? What do you think?

I see people write a lot about how people with ASD can be very good at written communication.
Isn't written communication sometimes even more difficult?
Especially e-mails, right?

A good communicator changes his/her paralanguage depending on the situation. This is a very lovely skill to have. I wish I had it!



ezbzbfcg2
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25 Dec 2022, 6:30 am

^ Well, it's interesting. Written language is less nuanced and more straight-forward (though I guess there can be some paralanguage with punctuation, use of an exclamation point, use of ALL CAPS, etc.). I can't site it now, but I read once a study where NTs were asked to assess the writings of Aspies, as well as spoken dialogue of Aspies. The NTs didn't have a problem with any of the Aspies' written communication, but things broke down upon hearing them speak the words. Also, with writing, a person can go back and edit before sending/publishing a written communication. Spoken word is immediate.

Aspies can have a very good vocabulary and literal use of language. Might not necessarily apply to paralanguage, which goes "beyond the words" into spoken nuance. In fact, using "big words" at a younger age may alienate an Aspie from their peers who don't normally use such language.

It's possible there is an "Aspie paralanguage," or an Aspie has enough wherewithal to tell that the person they are speaking with isn't using paralanguage in the same manner as NTs. The Aspie himself might not recognize his own misuse of paralanguage, but can realize it in another Aspie.

I would also say people, mainly NT, may use different paralanguage with different people. How they talk with a boss may be different than with a friend, may be different than with a parent.

Has anyone ever felt the need to go on and on and be redundant to make sure the NT party is "getting it," as there seems to be a lot of 'in one ear, out the other' with NTs? Repetition can annoy them, but I see many failing to understand after I convey something only once.



Gammeldans
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25 Dec 2022, 6:48 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
^ Well, it's interesting. Written language is less nuanced and more straight-forward (though I guess there can be some paralanguage with punctuation, use of an exclamation point, use of ALL CAPS, etc.). I can't site it now, but I read once a study where NTs were asked to assess the writings of Aspies, as well as spoken dialogue of Aspies. The NTs didn't have a problem with any of the Aspies' written communication, but things broke down upon hearing them speak the words. Also, with writing, a person can go back and edit before sending/publishing a written communication. Spoken word is immediate.

Aspies can have a very good vocabulary and literal use of language. Might not necessarily apply to paralanguage, which goes "beyond the words" into spoken nuance. In fact, using "big words" at a younger age may alienate an Aspie from their peers who don't normally use such language.

It's possible there is an "Aspie paralanguage," or an Aspie has enough wherewithal to tell that the person they are speaking with isn't using paralanguage in the same manner as NTs. The Aspie himself might not recognize his own misuse of paralanguage, but can realize it in another Aspie.



I would also say people, mainly NT, may use different paralanguage with different people. How they talk with a boss may be different than with a friend, may be different than with a parent.

Has anyone ever felt the need to go on and on and be redundant to make sure the NT party is "getting it," as there seems to be a lot of 'in one ear, out the other' with NTs? Repetition can annoy them, but I see many failing to understand after I convey something only once.

I think e-mails can be tough to read due to one very important thing: you are supposed to understand someone who wrote something in very few words.

I have heard a lot about how we can be concrete thinkers (aka literal thinkers). This would mean that we cannot read poetry at all. Just another stereotype again, I guess.
We might need more info in order to get something( ie why short e-mails can be difficult to read) but it is not like we fail reading poetry just because it uses metaphors sometimes eg "you are my sunshine...".

But then again poetry can be short. Well, we can read about the poem and the style it is written in.
Silent night is probably difficult to understand without having more info than written in the lyrics.

Sometimes spoken information are easier to understand as it use prosody and other stuff.
People can sound angry in an e-mail but sound very non-angry when speaking to them.

Also, poetry again. I rarely read poetry. I tells me vey little. It must be sung or recited.

Btw, do we know what kind of aspies and NTs were in that study or what information they were dealing with when writing and reading?



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25 Dec 2022, 7:57 am

Gammeldans wrote:
I read or hear a lot about how we people with ASD are bad at or struggle with paralanguage.
Do you have concrete examples of when people with ASD would struggle with it and when actually being good at it?


First I gotta find out what it is.

Hmm, interesting, definition includes another word I gotta look up.

https://dictionary.apa.org/paralanguage

Quote:
paralanguage
n. the vocal but nonverbal elements of communication by speech. Paralanguage includes not only suprasegmental features of speech, such as tone and stress, but also such factors as volume and speed of delivery, voice quality, hesitations, and nonlinguistic sounds, such as sighs, whistles, or groans. These paralinguistic cues (or paralinguistic features) can be enormously important in shaping the total meaning of an utterance; they can, for example, convey the fact that a speaker is angry or sarcastic when this would not be apparent from the same words written down. In some uses, the term is extended to include gestures, facial expressions, and other aspects of body language.


https://www.britannica.com/topic/suprasegmental

Quote:
suprasegmental, also called prosodic feature, in phonetics, a speech feature such as stress, tone, or word juncture that accompanies or is added over consonants and vowels; these features are not limited to single sounds but often extend over syllables, words, or phrases. In Spanish the stress accent is often used to distinguish between otherwise identical words: término means “term,” termíno means “I terminate,” and terminó means “he terminated.” In Mandarin Chinese, tone is a distinctive suprasegmental: shih pronounced on a high, level note means “to lose”; on a slight rising note means “ten”; on a falling note means “city, market”; and on a falling–rising note means “history.” English “beer dripped” and “beard ripped” are distinguished by word juncture.

The above examples demonstrate functional suprasegmentals. Nonfunctional suprasegmentals that do not change the meaning of words or phrases also exist; stress in French is an example. Suprasegmentals are so called in contrast to consonants and vowels, which are treated as serially ordered segments of the spoken utterance.


Hmm, "word juncture" is another one I've not come across before.
End of looking stuff up, it is early and I am hurting.


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25 Dec 2022, 2:41 pm

Quote:
I have heard a lot about how "aspies" are supposed to be very good at words.
Have you also heard it? What do you think?


I agree with this one because 'big words' are used fairly often here and I'm always googling them because I'm not very good at big words, which is why I fail to win in political debates here.

I've also noticed that the most intelligent members here get more replies in their threads and their opinions get respected even if they're unpopular opinions.


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25 Dec 2022, 5:57 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
I have heard a lot about how "aspies" are supposed to be very good at words.
Have you also heard it? What do you think?


I agree with this one because 'big words' are used fairly often here and I'm always googling them because I'm not very good at big words, which is why I fail to win in political debates here.

I've also noticed that the most intelligent members here get more replies in their threads and their opinions get respected even if they're unpopular opinions.

I often don't have the patience to look up all those "fifty-dollar words," so it's often a bit like the "too long, didn't read" thing. To my mind, the best content is designed so that most people can understand it quickly and easily. One thing that puts me off is name-dropping when I've never heard of the people whose names get dropped. But this here topic isn't bad, apart from using the word "paralanguage" without saying what it means, and it's not very hard to find out.

I used to be poor at the intonation stuff, and had rather a robotic voice, but over the years I gradually improved it, and can now read a book aloud better than most of those readers on Librivox, as long as I can rehearse the bits I find difficult and don't have to read it too fast. In normal conversation I seem to do quite well with these paralanguage things, and when I told my barber I was a singer he said he'd thought I might be because I projected my voice when I was talking (though barbers are sometimes shmoozy with their customers so he might have been dishonestly flattering me). I did find spoken word harder to break into than singing. Years ago a couple of people said they were surprised I sang so well considering my ordinary speaking voice.



Gammeldans
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30 Dec 2022, 5:50 am

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
I have heard a lot about how "aspies" are supposed to be very good at words.
Have you also heard it? What do you think?


I agree with this one because 'big words' are used fairly often here and I'm always googling them because I'm not very good at big words, which is why I fail to win in political debates here.

I've also noticed that the most intelligent members here get more replies in their threads and their opinions get respected even if they're unpopular opinions.

Just because people use formal terminology they don't have to understand it.
Perhaps people just use such terminology in order to not having to be concrete?
I used the term paralanguage but I wasn't mentioning concrete difficulties or strengths we have that I wanted to dicuss.