Do we get stuck on loving people?

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@KitLily, that's an exact checklist for my mom also. I call my mom "selflessly selfish". She's so battered, bruised and hurt that she can only think to lift herself up by putting others down. My sister is that way also. Meanwhile I have had more of the opposite problem - lifting up or accommodating others to my own detriment. WIP.

Thank you, that means a lot. Where I live, I just have to breathe and someone gets upset/annoyed. I'm looking forward to moving away next year!! !!

Thanks, that means a lot for people to see I'm kind

I don't think my mum is hurt, she's always been happy, optimistic, Miss Popular.

About ten years ago in a parenting Facebook group I was talking about how she treats me, and someone pointed me to information about Narcissistic Mothers. There was a checklist of my mother's behaviour, clearly laid out.

She definitely has something wrong with her. I suspect narcissism because she loves to be centre of attention e.g. at my wedding she made sure to put me down all day and promote herself. At my daughter's christening she was the same.

NOT how I will act at my daughter's wedding if she has one! SHE will be centre of attention!! !

I seem to have totally derailed this thread, sorry! But I haven't any friends to talk to about this.

Good for you. I'd be your friend.

N'aww. And knowing you, if I said anything abrupt or extreme, you'd take care to ask me if I was alright, and did I mean what I said, or was it just a moment of anger/anxiety.

You wouldn't storm off in a huff at the drop of a hat.

My mom is moderately like that when she's in full on denial and avoidance mode (most of the time), but she slips into depression (occasionally) so I consider her a Narcissistic Autist as opposed to straight up Narcissist as your mom may be. My mom first apologized to me at age 70 so is gaining self awareness and changing her ways. Similar to my mom in her midlife, my sister is unable to comfort others nor apologize, but she's Allistic.

This is tangentially related to the topic of loving people. My sister is the type to judge and cut off folks. She gets stuck on hating people. Recently I got excited and she interpreted that as offensive and slammed me. Although I don't nurture friendships as expected, I am open and forgiving. I get stuck on loving people. Pluses and minuses to each. Broken record: we could each benefit from moderation, some of the other person's style.

Well usually I can tell the difference between someone being honest but with good intentions and someone deliberately being malicious, just by body language and all that and also how much trust we have built up. You'd have thought NTs would be able to tell the difference too.

People usually don't want to be my friend because I don't ask them enough questions and they think I'm not that interested in them. I've never been one to ask many questions really, not because I'm disinterested but because I sometimes find it awkward for some reason. Nobody's ever said that, but I'm just assuming it's because I don't ask enough questions and it sounds quite plausible to be the reason.

Wow! That's good! I think my mum apologised to me once, for going on holiday when I was 16 or so without telling me where she was going, when she'd be back and leaving no contact number or way to contact her. So I was alone in the house for weeks with just my dog, and having to take myself to school and feed myself alone. Even she realised that was child abuse.

She has done loads of other horrible things to me but that was the only apology I got. Probably because she realised it was a crime and I could report her. Everything else could be dismissed as 'having a bad day' or whatever.

Yes, you have a good sense of what makes people tick IMO. Maybe these people who take offence at me are just stupid? Or have some other problem.

I wonder if that's my problem too- about the questions! Good advice Joe.

I truly have no idea what people think about me in real life as I get no feedback. They just: don't seem to want to be around me/ be my friend/ take offence at the slightest thing.

People do take offense at the slightest thing. That's why many people, at least NTs, seem to know to just say pleasantries that they may not really mean so they don't accidentally offend someone by stating an actual opinion or sometimes even a simple fact.

I managed to offend someone by saying that Western Massachusetts is cold. She was offended because she had been talking about how cold Montreal is, and she thought I was implying that Montreal was no colder than Western Mass.

It may be that people don't want to be around you (if that's really the case -- you seem delightful to me) because you are inadvertently offending them by just saying the most ordinary and not-offensive things. It's true that it's their fault for misinterpreting and jumping to conclusions, or for reading subtext that is not there, but depending on your goal, you can try not to say things that they might misinterpret. I don't know, it's a choice many (possibly most?) people make. I don't think I could do that. Mostly I just try not to talk that much. Still I offend people. I don't like taking Ubers and Lyfts because I think I'm going to offend the driver.

^I tend to read subtext that isn't there, more so here but sometimes offline too. But I thought that was me being overly paranoid and anxious and a bit stupid, not a NT thing.

I often get offended by things that others don't, but I try not to let them know that I'm offended because I understand that they weren't to know and weren't trying to offend me. The more I like and trust somebody, the more forgiving I can be. But I don't hold grudges much anyway. Well I do if someone has been really nasty to me for no reason, but I still speak civilly to them if they take the trouble to speak civilly to me, but if they seem the type I wouldn't trust again and had really bullied me or something then I'd keep them at arm's length and just be polite if they're polite to me. In the adult world that's the best way to be. You don't have to like everyone (although it helps if you do unless you have a good reason not to like someone), but acting hostile when they're being OK to you isn't the adult way. Yes it may feel fake but it's just for the sake of peace and getting along.

They do seem to take offence more easily than they used to. I wonder if that's it: people are constantly looking for things to be offended by these days, unlike in the past when people just used to let it wash over them.

That thing about you mentioning that Western Massachusetts being cold is ridiculous. You were talking about the weather! I'm not sure how that's offensive.

I think my most stupid experience is when I was telling a friend how proud I was of my daughter because she was good at so many of her school subjects. My friend, who has no children, said that Greta Thunberg was better because she'd achieved so much more as a schoolchild. WTF.

Yes, I'm not sure how to say things people can't misinterpret. They seem to misinterpret everything and read some kind of hidden meaning into EVERYTHING.

It annoys me because I'm deliberately trying to restrain myself and be polite! Yet they STILL get offended. I think I'm just going to say what comes into my head from now on because whatever I say seems to be offensive and I can't be any more tactful than I'm being

Thanks for your kind comments Bee!

I can't read subtext. I guess that's why I don't get on with women generally, because they rarely say clearly what they mean.

I can imagine what the subtext might be but I've no idea which option to choose and it's too tiring to try and work it out so I don't bother.

The only thing I've learned is to think why someone is asking me a question and say, why do you want to know? if it seems dodgy e.g. What do you think of Maryanne? is a loaded question. The person asking will listen to my answer then run to Maryanne and say, kitlily said this about you. As if I'd just said it out of the blue with no prompting.

So I try and take a breath before answering clearly and fully.

^Yes that is one of the things we all have to judge when interacting on a daily basis. People often tell me things that I know I mustn't repeat to the wrong people, and I keep to my word and know to keep quiet and that's where people feel they can trust me and confide in me (even though I still don't have many friends ).
I think I fail online more because I don't have the non-verbal cues to give me clues on what a person is really feeling. So online I tend to read too much into things and think that people are being cynical against me. Offline I can work out if people are referring to me or not by their body language and other non-verbal nuances.
I don't have the difficulties recognising and understanding non-verbal cues that most autistics typically struggle with. I'm generally not oblivious or confused.
Like this morning when I arrived at work and the inspector was there, which I wasn't expecting, and I could tell my supervisor was a bit nervous and wanted everything to go smoothly. So he assigned me a task to do that I had done yesterday and didn't need doing again until next week, but as he was telling me, I could see in his facial expressions that he was trying to subtly hint "I know you've already done this task but please just play along". I just knew, and so I said "yes", and went off to do it. I did wonder whether the inspector might have noticed too, but I think that some of these non-verbal cues can only be noted by the person they are talking to directly and not others in the room, especially if it is only in their expressions around the eyes and not in their tone of voice.

That is why I got frustrated when I failed socially on this site a few weeks ago. I felt like I demonstrated a severe lack of social understanding and empathy even though I easily demonstrate social understanding and empathy in real life when interacting with people every day. It makes me worry that I look like a liar whenever I say on here how easy I find generally interacting with people, like at work. But if you spent a day with me you probably wouldn't believe that I'm the Joe90 you know on WP.
Although I can understand subtle non-verbal social cues, I am still socially awkward in other ways. I can get shy and sometimes fear hearing my own voice in a group, even though I am still a sociable person. I've never been the sort to go off and eat lunch alone, wherever I've worked I've always liked eating my lunch with others. I don't need "recharging" after interacting with people, but I do need recharging from life in general. Even if I've been at home all day without interacting with anyone I still need recharging, which is taking a nap with an audiobook on. It's just relaxation really.
Anyway I find even NTs like their own times during the evenings after work. My NT aunt is extrovert but even she craves alone time in the evenings in front of the TV with a glass of wine without being interrupted. It's just a way to wind down and relax. Same goes for me. Others get home from work and drink alcohol in front of the TV, I get home from work and take a nap. It's just one of life's pleasures.

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Sometimes they do tell me what i "did wrong". for example, one precious lil "person" had the nerve to call me "stupid kid" and tell me that it was "rude" to knock on the litterbox door. someone else had the nerve to bark @ me "you could've said something. i would've hurried up!", when i failed to knock on the litterbox door. (side note: it was the same litterbox, on different days.)

in other words, when i knocked on the litterbox door, precious lil "people" had the nerve to bark @ me. when i did not knock on the door, precious lil "people" had the nerve to bark @ me. and you either knock on the door or do not knock on the door.
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sometimes, they do not tell me what i "did wrong". tattletale tom, a Lot Attendant at home depot (same as me, he is not my supervisor or manager or anything like that), has had the nerve to micromanage me since December 2021 or earlier. he seems to be trying to get me made redundant. he acts like i did something *shocking to the conscience* to him, but he didn't tell me what i "did wrong". (and i am not going to ask). good thing the parking lot is so large, that often times he has no good reason to interact with me for a couple weeks at a time. (it would be a nightmare working @ mcdonalds with someone like him. if i worked @ mcdonalds, someone like him could be standing six feet away from me, for forty hours a week.) but tattletale tom is all "buddy buddy" with a lot of employees, some of which have termination authority. and "at will" employer. so, tattletale tom could get away with anything without disciplinary action. while even if i do "nothing wrong", i could still get made redundant. home depot has videotapes, but a Reddit article says that the store manager does not have a right to access the videotapes. only loss prevention has the right to access the tapes, to look for illegal activity. as a result, i am constantly paranoid that tattletale tom, another employee, or a customer, will (1) misunderstand something (2) take it out of context (3) lie (4) exaggerate (5) frame me up (6) believe gossip, and then get me made redundant.

but whatever. back to the original post.

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sometimes, someone has the nerve to tell me that i did something wrong.

questions: (1) did i do it?
for example, tattletale tom had the nerve to bark @ me for putting the carts in crooked. but the carts were already there when i got there. another employee put the carts there. but at the time, i was the only lot attendant on duty, so that was a reasonable assumption. just a factually wrong assumption.

(2) is it "wrong" or "bad" or not "wrong"?
amy lee b***h (former "friend) had the nerve to tell me that if i did something she did not "like", she would tell me, and she expected me to stop and change. immediately, drastically, permanently, and cheerfully. and i asked her "what if you do something i don't like?" and that self centered b***h had the nerve to tell me "tell me and i will try to stop." some things are difficult and not all attempts end in success. some attempts end in failure. but amy lee b***h did not tell me to "try to" stop doing what she told me to stop doing. she told me to "stop" doing it. (and she was vague enough to overgeneralize her alleged authority, to any situation.) maybe she just wasn't sophisticated, refined, articulate enough to express anything more fair, but i find it hard to imagine that she really was my "friend".


(3) is it so "wrong" as to justify their reaction? (for example, do other employees get away with doing the same thing?). when i was 12, i wrongfully accused someone of petty larceny. that day, an entire stampede of junior high school rodents had the nerve to physically assault my worthless corpse at the bus stop. the "punishment" they gave me could be justified, but only if everyone that wrongfully accused someone, got the same "punishment". meanwhile amy lee b***h's (ex)boyfriend told me that i could eat something in the refrigerator. but the boyfriend did not tell amy lee b***h that he told me that i could have eaten it, and i did not take an audiotape. amy lee b***h's boyfriend just told her that i "took everything out of the refrigerator". (not "everything")(rolls eyes). so amy lee b***h had the nerve to accuse me of petty larceny (in so many words). but a stampede of junior high school rodents did not physically assault amy lee b***h. she got zero punishment (besides that i haven't interacted with her since then. at the time, it was 2012. now it is 2023. she has attempted to apologize since then, but it's not just that one "petty larceny" incident. i think she was way too condescending to me, she interrupted me when i talked, she cancelled hangouts with me and didn't call, she had the nerve to say "what?" instead of "excuse me?" to me. she looked like a good and nice precious lil "person", but i did not feel or think that she was worth the cost benefit analysis.

(4) what is the accuser not aware of? when my old man and old woman were alive (years ago), they had the nerve to bark @ me for the wrong facial expressions. but they did not know that i was autistic. i did not get a diagnosis until 21. they should have sent me to get diagnosed ("failure to attend to special education need": Child Protective Services violation). even though my old man and old woman appeared like morally good, hardworking precious lil "people", and they did their "best" and had "good intentions" other forms of Psychobabble, what they did to me was still a Child Protective Services violation. which i have yet to forgive or forget. even though my worthless corpse is now 40, middle aged, and rapidly on the decline physically and mentally, and i was never that great in any way, shape or form, before.

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different attachment styles

but your title says "we", as in (i think) autistics (as opposed to neurotypicals).

i have a diagnosis for autism, but not all autistics are the same in every way. on the other hand, sometimes there are patterns, such as autistics tend to have zero friends or whatever. (i am not a representative sample. this is not a controlled experiment)