So, uh, what am I?

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Went to Professor Attwood's clinic today; saw a psycho (who was a nice and friendly lady); discounting the DSM-IV-TR autistic disorder diagnosis I've got (she put that down), she said that I'd be Asperger's if using their new super secret criteria that I'm unable to find a copy of (I went there for a consultation, not a diagnosis). It appears that it all boils down to the IQ now in a certain Asperger's/autism professional community, rather than the verbal impairment when little ("'new study shows that those with AS can have delayed and/or odd speech,'"). Also, they really purvey the idea of "different" rather than "disorder" concerning AS (she said autism is an entirely different disorder and it's unrelated to AS for the most part), and somehow that people with AS actually make the world spin, whilst NT would just sit around all day and chat without "us".

I can see why there's a lot of chest beating going on when the words "disease" and "mental health" are brought up concerning AS if Professor Attwood and his ilk are used as reading material.

*Daniel shakes his head in confusion*

Danielsmyname: I have read many of yours posts (& vice versa, surely). Just an observation: You and I have many diagnostic commonalities and cognitively too. I assume you've read some of what I've written about this very same issue. I'll not reiterate too much, but I was diagnosed when I was ~ 5ish as autistic. My IQ is 160+ and I am analytically minded (science/math) and art. As a direct consequence of this arbitrary ratio that is IQ, I was categorized with Asperger's Syndrome. However, I experience the entire spectrum definitively - I'll not go into exorbitant detail (I have no Theory of Mind, lack a Sylvian Fissure, did not speak until I was 3.5 years old, synaesthesia, eidetic memory, really painfully shy, etc). Anyway, I cannot know you or your 'symptoms,' but I recognize common traits. I have sufficient reason to suspect (my doctor concurrs) that I am a true Kanner high-functioning autistic, which may be distinct from AS - blurry demarcation, if it in fact exists - interpretative. I am certainly not labeling you, nor would pretend to (not my field!), but you may be like me in this respect.....just a consideration. Unknown. Perhaps you could mention this to you psycho (love that word, btw), if she has an opinion. This could help refine your Dx, if that is a goal. Diagnostics can be critical, for various reasons, and so misinterpretation is avoided. Use Occam's Razor.

Yes, admittedly confusing. Logic often eludes NTs - MENTAL SCREAM. Good luck, Daniel. I know! I'll send you a virtual get-well card. Or, I'll diagnose you myself (Why not? It's not rocket science): You're autistic. It's fatal.

How's that? All better? Now I'll charge you an exorbitant amount of currency for my mystical diagnostic powers of perception.

Hello Danielismyname,

My head hurt reading your post! Who did you see? Was it Julie Fox?

Maybe if you read the following article, it will clarify what the psychologist was trying to say about 'difference' rather than 'disorder'.

http://www.thegraycenter.org/sectionsdetails.cfm?id=38

Helen.

I've been thinking about this. I think the initial part of her therapy is to try to convince you that you have a different way of thinking rather than you have a disorder.

She's telling you what a contribution people with AS have made to our world.

I know that Tony Attwood et al are not happy with the DSM-IV way of diagnosing and are trying to come up with a better way.

Also, much of the depression associated with Asperger's is as a result of being told you have a disorder or disability all of your life.

My sons are being told from the start that they have a different way of thinking - not good, not bad - just different. They are taught about the advantages and disadvantages.

My hope is they grow up with a good self-esteem.

Helen

Smelena,

I figured as such; I've never really had much of a self-esteem or depressive problem concerning my differences (more of unreleased anger and frustration that I learnt to cope with myself); so I guess I see it as needless to me. (I now see how it'd help those with such problems with self-esteem and self-worth; my lack of empathy shows itself.) I'm quite hard headed and stubborn (my way or...don't tell me such a way; the problem is people have to assume with me due to my lack of ability to communicate my whole point).

I saw Julie (I didn't make eye contact, but she had light hair), but I'm switching over to someone else as she's...booked out. It was a "good" visit overall, especially for my mother as it reinforced much of what I told her myself, i.e., it was good that my mother went out of her way to drive me to school rather than force me to catch the bus (I wouldn't have caught it anyway). The psychiatrist I see told her that she may've "babied" me; Julie today disagreed with him by saying that I won't be any more comfortable with certain things no matter how much I'm forced to do them and how much exposure (it'll make me worst in all reality). I'm always going to be "me" no matter what, for I'm "different", and like everything: it's all gifts and curses.

Aside: I'll follow my mother along to coffee.

LabPet,

I'll take the simplest -- my name is Daniel and I'm really not that good at talking to most people in person.

I was quite surprised that she said that autism is not related to AS for the most part - not only does this contradict everything I have ever read or heard on the subject, but I myself am kind of on the borderline between autism and AS.

Wow Danielismyname .... you've come a long way! Well done!

I was expecting to come back with you arguing that Asperger's/Autism is a disability (we've had this debate on another thread).

Julie Fox diagnosed both our boys. She is fantastic, but does talk very quickly! I'm glad she told your mother she did the right thing. Some psychiatrists really have little idea about Asperger's.

We see Ivy Gomez who is brilliant.

I can't wait to meet you. I'll have to bring my 4 year old, Liam. As long as I bring his toy cars he's happy to go anywhere.

Helen

Sounds like spin-doctoring to me. Maybe some spin is appropriate considering how devastated so many teensgers and young adults are by the diagnosis.

Seeing that term psycho this morning, starts my day wonderfully! I love having a good laugh! Thank you Danielismyname!

Danielismyname,

Trying to tell how a given person thinks/feels is VERY difficult EVEN if you are that person. I don't know about you, but I notice some things about myself only after knowing about them and looking for them, etc... If asked how I am different, on the spot, I may stammer and never even mention the most obvious and common things.

Also, I couldn't begin to know if the average person will instantly pull up an association and almost picture it as I just did. I spoke of MY not noticing the most obvious thing about myself, and saw the closing shot to an Alfred Hitchcock(An old director that used to have a suspense/who-done-it series on TV) show. The guy on the show METICULOUSLY hid so much of his face with a disguise(They somehow conveyed the idea that he was just SO careful about it and really thought it out), went out, and committed a crime. SOON, the police were at HIS door! It turned out he had a gigantic port wine stain on his face he forgot to hide!

Having other, disinterested, people spot such things is probably less likely. Autism has a stigma. Everyone on this board can probably attest to that even though probably nobody here really deserves it. AS at least WAS clean. With all the idiots trying to use AS to get their clients off, or act like they know so much, I think it is starting to really acquire the stigma as well. It is no surprise that some are trying to enlarge the diagnosis of AS.

I couldn't venture to determine if you were AS or autistic. Heck, lately I think you look more AS. Who knows? I probably seem a bit more verbal now simply because I am holding back less. Still, please realize I HAVE been holding back for like 37 years. That is a long time in anyones book! But if IQ was a VERY big part of the diagnosis, some that were diagnosed AS would be HFA and vice versa.

I wish it was easier to fit symptoms and level into a human understandable language so we could identify ourselves by THAT! Diagnosis would then be pretty simple, NOT open to debate, and even things like interviews might be dispensed with! THAT is why people set limits, group symptoms, determine the minimum requirements, and call it all by one name. If it is specific enough, and defines a conditions whos end effect and/or treatment is known(Cancer, arthritus, hemotoma, etc...) it makes perfect sense and is a great idea.

When it describes other things, like autism or AS, it becomes more arbitrary. In such a case, only the stability and narrowness of the meaning make it worth anything. It is sick that they keep changing things, and broadening the meaning of the terms. It has become little more than a name. You almost might as well be diagnosed PDD-NOS. After all, that is really what it is. Autism and AS specifications are changing so much that one wonders what WON'T be included when it finally stops.

Oh well...After all this....To make it SUCCINCT....Realize that you are not alone in your confusion!

Not that it matters. When all is said an done, a rose is still a rose. And HEY! When purchasing them, etc...., people RARELY think about the thorns!

LabPet,

I'll respond with greater depth (busy...).

You went into enough detail for me; I kind of got lost with a few of your terms after "theory of mind" (Sylvian Fissure, synaesthesia and synaesthesia again). ;) I'll speak of me and my symptoms if you'd like to compare. I meet the criteria for "autistic disorder" in the DSM-IV-TR (was diagnosed as such at 25); I have most of the symptoms listed, including those that aren't, hyper- and hyposensitivity to external stimuli. I developed speech, much in the same way as most with autism do; I rarely spoke up till 4 or so, when I did I used "odd" speech, i.e., grammatically incorrect, an odd syntax and whatnot. I'm lacking cognitive impairment, I had a "high" IQ when I was tested at 5ish due to schooling difficulties. I'm what you'd typically call "HFA", autism without the mental retardation. The ball in the box test test I took when 25 completely confounded me (26 now), so I do lack theory of mind; I lack empathy till it is pointed out to me and I then understand. I rarely talk. I'm..., I am spatial over verbal; my verbal IQ is usually average/below average -- spatial, math and logic is what kicks my IQ up, all of those are in the "genius" level.

My psychic pegs me as autistic (Kanner's and classic autism; albeit of the "high-functioning" variety due to intelligence); Attwood and his crew seem to see autism without the mental retardation the same as Asperger's. She actually used HFA and Asperger's interchangeably today when speaking of the verbal impairment (not that I said much), especially when I mentioned that that's why I met the criteria for autistic disorder; the new research she said shows that those with Asperger's can have the speech delay and/or odd speech.

*Shrug*

They'll agree to something in the future; I'm guessing it'll be LFA and HFA, no Kanner's or Asperger's, just whether you're mentally ret*d or not.

I'm dying too, really, really and really slowly however (such is life).

girl7000,

It may've been a "pick me up speech" (twisting words to make me feel better; not that I need it), as when you speak of autism, most people still think of the stereotypes associated with it. I kind of look sad and depressed my mother tells me when I'm around people I don't know; I spoke to the psycho's feet the whole time.

Smelena,

Julie had a lot of caring words to give; most of which really pertains to my "therapy" and my future; retrospectively, it was a pretty good experience compared to your average psycho/psychic visit. I'll let you know who I'm seeing next [Tuesday], I was kind of overwhelmed with the people in reception; my mother did the appointment booking thingy.

I'll remind my mother to call you (not that I need to); it'll be cool to see you too.

faithfilly,

Ha, the term isn't used derogatively however, it's laced with some irony and sarcasm, but it's purely friendly joking (actually, I hate spelling the terms).

2ukenkerl,

Cool post, I'll reply to it later as I'm all talke...typed out.

(Aside: They know about Wrong Planet there.)

BTW daniel,

I would say labpet is autistic ONLY because she has so many somewhat debilitating things, like meltdowns. I bet she would be happy to get rid of those, but NOT if she got rid of the good things.

Besides, it is amazing how the brain develops. When I was a little kid, I noticed how my intelligence and ability just SKYROCKETED, and other peoples just stayed kind of flat. I couldn't understand why kids were put down so much. I was around guns, and could EASILY load and shoot them, by the time I was 6. I was NEVER injured by them, and never injured anyone else! I used a lathe by the time I was 7.(A real MACHINIST lathe. I had to stand on a stool to use it) I used power tools such as saws(jig,band,circular,table) by the time I was 7. I NEVER so much as NICKED any skin. In fact, the WORST injury I EVER got was a bruise in my thumb(about 5 times) by slipping with a hammer. Yet people think kids just can't do anything. GUESS WHAT!? I have met ADULTS that were super careless.

One guy even admitted to me he used a circular saw in an unsafe environment, and almost sliced his kid! He said it was like a slow speed film with him thinking nooooooooooooo, as the blade came down and his kid ran across. Granted, it involved a child, but he was careless.

One shop teacher INSISTED I use blocks, and showed me his hands to prove what he was saying was true. He lost almost every finger. The fact is that some use those blocks, push, become complacent, and slip. If the work is big enough, I'll use my hands, and be careful. Guess what.... After about 5+ years of being as active as possible with power tools.... EVEN after that jerk let some stupid bullies in that tried to push me into a circular sander, I got NO injuries! Not even a scratch. (OK, those bruised thumbs, but they healed)

Later, my intelligence kind of flattened, and they started climbing a bit. So, when all is said and done, I am a LOT better at some things only because they developed earlier, and possibly when I could enjoy them more, but some things THEY may seem better at now. Now that I am middle aged, etc... I am trying to get back what I had in youth, and many of them seem complacent. Who knows where things will end up there?

So I guess you shouldn't be too concerned about exactly when things started. You started later than I did. You may even have started later than many of them did. But HEY, you certainly caught up and, I guess, exceeded most.

I'm sorry if I may have been misleading by my short response. It's apparent your choice of words are purely friendly joking (laced with some irony and sarcasm). The beauty behind the term psycho is that it can go either way and it made me think of others in the past who would fit that term in the negative light.

why don't they all just call it autism spectrum disorder only and be done with it?
it is stupid how people are seperated like this,unless they are physically different conditions.
if people were diagnosed ASD,rather than classic/kanners,aspergers,pddnos etc. then it would be treated as a true spectrum,rather than stereotyping people with specific labels [eg,kanners autists are all seen as mentally ret*d,whereas aspergan autists are seen as close NTs with social problems]and as everyone knows,there is no one way to be kanners or aspergan autistic beyond the required criteria,some people with aspergers can be more autistic than kanners types.

Danielismyname,
use whatever label think fits self,as will know self,better than what they do.

well that is terrible! but i think it does come down to IQ and speech develoupment, if your iq is in the normal range and your speech is pretty good they consider you to be aspergers

Hi Daniel, is this the clinic in West End Brisbane? I live right across the river and have been considering going, since I thought they would be one of the best places in the world to get an opinion. I know I most certainly fall on the spectrum (I'm almost a textbook description of somebody with Aspergers, minus meltdowns, I'm ok with faces but still worse then most people, and I've had friendships that last for years- though it's difficult to stay in the inner circle since I cannot pick up their interests) I've been wondering what they could tell me, and if it would be worth any cost associated.