The ASD introspection-Expression Inequality

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HacKING
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20 Mar 2020, 1:36 am

I can't claim to represent everybody with autism when I speak, because that just isn't true. But what I am about to speak to is in my experience with myself and others, a common outcome of having autism. The problem lies in this-
Us with ASD often have very analytical minds that obsess over the slightest details of the things we get into. Our minds are so finely tuned to detail that even somebody talking too much can be too much input because we take in absolutely everything. And that taking in of everything and obsession to detail can result in quite a lot of thinking. For example what you are actually getting with this post is a consequence of me being isolated with my thoughts and therefore I am delivering to this stream of consciousness that I hope can be useful to those of you who are struggling with themselves right now.

My point is, I believe us with ASD are thinkers, and not just any kind of thinker, but thinkers so utterly consumed by our thoughts that it can be hard to give the outside world any attention. And I believe what actually goes on in my mind and the minds of others with ASD is frankly, a beautiful thing. I constantly amaze myself with the sheer depths of my thoughts and yet, I find myself unable to express those same thoughts I had so articulately in my head to other people. Which is partially why I'm typing this. I need somebody to see my mind in real time so it isn't just me who knows I think like this.

That's the fundamental problem. A lot of what goes through our minds isn't necessarily going to be expressed verbally to other people and as a consequence of this introspection-expresion inequality, we are often vastly underestimated by our peers, who on the outside may see us as simple and repetitive people who occasionally lose control of our emotions over seemingly nothing. Additionally, the world around us may not even necessarily place any value in our thoughts because they themselves are actually the simple and restrictive ones, and all this of course, leads to things that can be absolutely devestating to one's self worth; bullying, being misunderstood, patronized, and ridiculed. How do we even respond to all these things?

Well the way I see it, there's several ways we respond to it. I can't tell you which approach is the best but I can definitely tell you which one is the worst- caving into the devaluation from the outside world, and submitting to the demands they put on you. This will send you down a dark path of being somebody you are not and could undermine a bright future for those with ambitions aside from social validation. Another bad approach is withdrawing so much from society that you can't make anything of yourself.

Here's the approach I take, and the one I recommend. So first off as you're seeing with this very post- I have an articulate thought, I write it down somewhere, such as on this forum. That way it's archived and you can even show doubters these posts which may actually help them understand that there's more than meets the eye. Another thing is, NEVER give up your interests no matter what somebody says unless your interest hurts other people in a direct sense, such as an interest in fighting people. If anything you should double down and seek the crowds that will appreciate what you have to offer. This could be people with ASD or NTs that are supportive. And never forget who you actually are inside because even if you have a hard time expressing it, that is you and don't ever let them take that from you.

I hope this post helped some of you feel better and that it got out my thoughts accurately.



JimSpark
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20 Mar 2020, 9:17 am

HacKING wrote:
I can't claim to represent everybody with autism when I speak, because that just isn't true. But what I am about to speak to is in my experience with myself and others, a common outcome of having autism. The problem lies in this-
Us with ASD often have very analytical minds that obsess over the slightest details of the things we get into. Our minds are so finely tuned to detail that even somebody talking too much can be too much input because we take in absolutely everything. And that taking in of everything and obsession to detail can result in quite a lot of thinking. For example what you are actually getting with this post is a consequence of me being isolated with my thoughts and therefore I am delivering to this stream of consciousness that I hope can be useful to those of you who are struggling with themselves right now.

My point is, I believe us with ASD are thinkers, and not just any kind of thinker, but thinkers so utterly consumed by our thoughts that it can be hard to give the outside world any attention. And I believe what actually goes on in my mind and the minds of others with ASD is frankly, a beautiful thing. I constantly amaze myself with the sheer depths of my thoughts and yet, I find myself unable to express those same thoughts I had so articulately in my head to other people. Which is partially why I'm typing this. I need somebody to see my mind in real time so it isn't just me who knows I think like this.

That's the fundamental problem. A lot of what goes through our minds isn't necessarily going to be expressed verbally to other people and as a consequence of this introspection-expresion inequality, we are often vastly underestimated by our peers, who on the outside may see us as simple and repetitive people who occasionally lose control of our emotions over seemingly nothing. Additionally, the world around us may not even necessarily place any value in our thoughts because they themselves are actually the simple and restrictive ones, and all this of course, leads to things that can be absolutely devestating to one's self worth; bullying, being misunderstood, patronized, and ridiculed. How do we even respond to all these things?

Well the way I see it, there's several ways we respond to it. I can't tell you which approach is the best but I can definitely tell you which one is the worst- caving into the devaluation from the outside world, and submitting to the demands they put on you. This will send you down a dark path of being somebody you are not and could undermine a bright future for those with ambitions aside from social validation. Another bad approach is withdrawing so much from society that you can't make anything of yourself.

Here's the approach I take, and the one I recommend. So first off as you're seeing with this very post- I have an articulate thought, I write it down somewhere, such as on this forum. That way it's archived and you can even show doubters these posts which may actually help them understand that there's more than meets the eye. Another thing is, NEVER give up your interests no matter what somebody says unless your interest hurts other people in a direct sense, such as an interest in fighting people. If anything you should double down and seek the crowds that will appreciate what you have to offer. This could be people with ASD or NTs that are supportive. And never forget who you actually are inside because even if you have a hard time expressing it, that is you and don't ever let them take that from you.

I hope this post helped some of you feel better and that it got out my thoughts accurately.


That's a wonderful post. So many valuable insights, some I've thought about and done myself, but others I haven't and provide good food for thought.

Thank you for taking time to post it! :D


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HacKING
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20 Mar 2020, 12:45 pm

JimSpark wrote:
HacKING wrote:
I can't claim to represent everybody with autism when I speak, because that just isn't true. But what I am about to speak to is in my experience with myself and others, a common outcome of having autism. The problem lies in this-
Us with ASD often have very analytical minds that obsess over the slightest details of the things we get into. Our minds are so finely tuned to detail that even somebody talking too much can be too much input because we take in absolutely everything. And that taking in of everything and obsession to detail can result in quite a lot of thinking. For example what you are actually getting with this post is a consequence of me being isolated with my thoughts and therefore I am delivering to this stream of consciousness that I hope can be useful to those of you who are struggling with themselves right now.

My point is, I believe us with ASD are thinkers, and not just any kind of thinker, but thinkers so utterly consumed by our thoughts that it can be hard to give the outside world any attention. And I believe what actually goes on in my mind and the minds of others with ASD is frankly, a beautiful thing. I constantly amaze myself with the sheer depths of my thoughts and yet, I find myself unable to express those same thoughts I had so articulately in my head to other people. Which is partially why I'm typing this. I need somebody to see my mind in real time so it isn't just me who knows I think like this.

That's the fundamental problem. A lot of what goes through our minds isn't necessarily going to be expressed verbally to other people and as a consequence of this introspection-expresion inequality, we are often vastly underestimated by our peers, who on the outside may see us as simple and repetitive people who occasionally lose control of our emotions over seemingly nothing. Additionally, the world around us may not even necessarily place any value in our thoughts because they themselves are actually the simple and restrictive ones, and all this of course, leads to things that can be absolutely devestating to one's self worth; bullying, being misunderstood, patronized, and ridiculed. How do we even respond to all these things?

Well the way I see it, there's several ways we respond to it. I can't tell you which approach is the best but I can definitely tell you which one is the worst- caving into the devaluation from the outside world, and submitting to the demands they put on you. This will send you down a dark path of being somebody you are not and could undermine a bright future for those with ambitions aside from social validation. Another bad approach is withdrawing so much from society that you can't make anything of yourself.

Here's the approach I take, and the one I recommend. So first off as you're seeing with this very post- I have an articulate thought, I write it down somewhere, such as on this forum. That way it's archived and you can even show doubters these posts which may actually help them understand that there's more than meets the eye. Another thing is, NEVER give up your interests no matter what somebody says unless your interest hurts other people in a direct sense, such as an interest in fighting people. If anything you should double down and seek the crowds that will appreciate what you have to offer. This could be people with ASD or NTs that are supportive. And never forget who you actually are inside because even if you have a hard time expressing it, that is you and don't ever let them take that from you.

I hope this post helped some of you feel better and that it got out my thoughts accurately.


That's a wonderful post. So many valuable insights, some I've thought about and done myself, but others I haven't and provide good food for thought.

Thank you for taking time to post it! :D


You're welcome. Which thoughts in it have you thought and which are new to you?



Oculus
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20 Mar 2020, 3:40 pm

I fully agree with your post. Many of us on this side of the spectrum (can't speak for everyone, but certainly me and some people I know) combine an extremely rich internal life and diminished expressiveness. There is much, much more going on in our heads than what the outside world can observe.

That wealth of thought can be an advantage and a disadvantage -- like you said, complex conversations take too long to think through, but we have to think them through, which means we can't participate in real-time.

The lack of expressiveness seems to be mostly a disadvantage, though it can occasionally come in handy when a tense situation is defused by a surfeit of input.

The world is not kind to those who are different, so building self-confidence and self-sufficiency is a necessary life skill. It is better to provide one's own direction and remain steadfast in our goals than to allow ourselves to be knocked off-course by the ill-intentioned.



HacKING
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20 Mar 2020, 8:27 pm

Oculus wrote:
I fully agree with your post. Many of us on this side of the spectrum (can't speak for everyone, but certainly me and some people I know) combine an extremely rich internal life and diminished expressiveness. There is much, much more going on in our heads than what the outside world can observe.

That wealth of thought can be an advantage and a disadvantage -- like you said, complex conversations take too long to think through, but we have to think them through, which means we can't participate in real-time.

The lack of expressiveness seems to be mostly a disadvantage, though it can occasionally come in handy when a tense situation is defused by a surfeit of input.

The world is not kind to those who are different, so building self-confidence and self-sufficiency is a necessary life skill. It is better to provide one's own direction and remain steadfast in our goals than to allow ourselves to be knocked off-course by the ill-intentioned.



True. It's best not to hinge on other people for happiness.



JimSpark
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21 Mar 2020, 6:41 am

HacKING wrote:
JimSpark wrote:
HacKING wrote:
I can't claim to represent everybody with autism when I speak, because that just isn't true. But what I am about to speak to is in my experience with myself and others, a common outcome of having autism. The problem lies in this-
Us with ASD often have very analytical minds that obsess over the slightest details of the things we get into. Our minds are so finely tuned to detail that even somebody talking too much can be too much input because we take in absolutely everything. And that taking in of everything and obsession to detail can result in quite a lot of thinking. For example what you are actually getting with this post is a consequence of me being isolated with my thoughts and therefore I am delivering to this stream of consciousness that I hope can be useful to those of you who are struggling with themselves right now.

My point is, I believe us with ASD are thinkers, and not just any kind of thinker, but thinkers so utterly consumed by our thoughts that it can be hard to give the outside world any attention. And I believe what actually goes on in my mind and the minds of others with ASD is frankly, a beautiful thing. I constantly amaze myself with the sheer depths of my thoughts and yet, I find myself unable to express those same thoughts I had so articulately in my head to other people. Which is partially why I'm typing this. I need somebody to see my mind in real time so it isn't just me who knows I think like this.

That's the fundamental problem. A lot of what goes through our minds isn't necessarily going to be expressed verbally to other people and as a consequence of this introspection-expresion inequality, we are often vastly underestimated by our peers, who on the outside may see us as simple and repetitive people who occasionally lose control of our emotions over seemingly nothing. Additionally, the world around us may not even necessarily place any value in our thoughts because they themselves are actually the simple and restrictive ones, and all this of course, leads to things that can be absolutely devestating to one's self worth; bullying, being misunderstood, patronized, and ridiculed. How do we even respond to all these things?

Well the way I see it, there's several ways we respond to it. I can't tell you which approach is the best but I can definitely tell you which one is the worst- caving into the devaluation from the outside world, and submitting to the demands they put on you. This will send you down a dark path of being somebody you are not and could undermine a bright future for those with ambitions aside from social validation. Another bad approach is withdrawing so much from society that you can't make anything of yourself.

Here's the approach I take, and the one I recommend. So first off as you're seeing with this very post- I have an articulate thought, I write it down somewhere, such as on this forum. That way it's archived and you can even show doubters these posts which may actually help them understand that there's more than meets the eye. Another thing is, NEVER give up your interests no matter what somebody says unless your interest hurts other people in a direct sense, such as an interest in fighting people. If anything you should double down and seek the crowds that will appreciate what you have to offer. This could be people with ASD or NTs that are supportive. And never forget who you actually are inside because even if you have a hard time expressing it, that is you and don't ever let them take that from you.

I hope this post helped some of you feel better and that it got out my thoughts accurately.


That's a wonderful post. So many valuable insights, some I've thought about and done myself, but others I haven't and provide good food for thought.

Thank you for taking time to post it! :D


You're welcome. Which thoughts in it have you thought and which are new to you?


The familiar parts are:
1) the idea that we think so much more than what we can speak/express to others.
2) the ways that some of us autistics think, particularly during periods of hyperfocus, are a very beautiful thing. This is a personal one for me, as when I was a child in the 1970s, I could hyperfocus so easily and stay hyperfocused for very long periods of time, and therefore learned so many things in depth in those topics I had interests. Teachers and other adults who observed my ability to learn things in depth thought I was somewhat of a genius. But the school and working worlds don't often allow anyone time to hyperfocus, and rewards only those who multi-task well. If you can't easily juggle doing several things at once, you'll get left behind and thought of as rather simple-minded when that's actually the furthest thing from the truth.

The part that was new to me is the idea of recording interesting thoughts and ideas in posts on this forum. I do know how to search for my prior posts in WP, so going forward I could use the forum as an easy way to keep track of those things I've written, much of which comes out while my mind is in hyperfocus. Of course, I'd want to limit that only to thoughts and ideas relevant to the thread at hand :)


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Edna3362
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21 Mar 2020, 7:00 am

HacKING wrote:
I can't claim to represent everybody with autism when I speak, because that just isn't true. But what I am about to speak to is in my experience with myself and others, a common outcome of having autism. The problem lies in this-
Us with ASD often have very analytical minds that obsess over the slightest details of the things we get into. Our minds are so finely tuned to detail that even somebody talking too much can be too much input because we take in absolutely everything. And that taking in of everything and obsession to detail can result in quite a lot of thinking. For example what you are actually getting with this post is a consequence of me being isolated with my thoughts and therefore I am delivering to this stream of consciousness that I hope can be useful to those of you who are struggling with themselves right now.

My point is, I believe us with ASD are thinkers, and not just any kind of thinker, but thinkers so utterly consumed by our thoughts that it can be hard to give the outside world any attention. And I believe what actually goes on in my mind and the minds of others with ASD is frankly, a beautiful thing. I constantly amaze myself with the sheer depths of my thoughts and yet, I find myself unable to express those same thoughts I had so articulately in my head to other people. Which is partially why I'm typing this. I need somebody to see my mind in real time so it isn't just me who knows I think like this.

That's the fundamental problem. A lot of what goes through our minds isn't necessarily going to be expressed verbally to other people and as a consequence of this introspection-expresion inequality, we are often vastly underestimated by our peers, who on the outside may see us as simple and repetitive people who occasionally lose control of our emotions over seemingly nothing. Additionally, the world around us may not even necessarily place any value in our thoughts because they themselves are actually the simple and restrictive ones, and all this of course, leads to things that can be absolutely devestating to one's self worth; bullying, being misunderstood, patronized, and ridiculed. How do we even respond to all these things?

Well the way I see it, there's several ways we respond to it. I can't tell you which approach is the best but I can definitely tell you which one is the worst- caving into the devaluation from the outside world, and submitting to the demands they put on you. This will send you down a dark path of being somebody you are not and could undermine a bright future for those with ambitions aside from social validation. Another bad approach is withdrawing so much from society that you can't make anything of yourself.

Here's the approach I take, and the one I recommend. So first off as you're seeing with this very post- I have an articulate thought, I write it down somewhere, such as on this forum. That way it's archived and you can even show doubters these posts which may actually help them understand that there's more than meets the eye. Another thing is, NEVER give up your interests no matter what somebody says unless your interest hurts other people in a direct sense, such as an interest in fighting people. If anything you should double down and seek the crowds that will appreciate what you have to offer. This could be people with ASD or NTs that are supportive. And never forget who you actually are inside because even if you have a hard time expressing it, that is you and don't ever let them take that from you.

I hope this post helped some of you feel better and that it got out my thoughts accurately.

Yes.
This gap exists. And I do think it's not limited to words, but also movement and intent.


Experience tells me that in order to close this gap, it's more to do with 'processing' power and capacity VS 'quantity' of input/output to process.
An autistic could likely have more latter than the former usually handle.

Accommodations can only ease or reduce 'quantity' and 'intensity' of input artificially, giving room for more 'output' and the rest of already limited processing capacity to use instead of competing for more internal resources...
Focus is an all-in filter that uses most processing power and capacity into a subject/topic/activity/etc.
Forms of acceptance reduces certain 'outputs' and reduces unwanted contexts of certain 'inputs'.

Or at least that's how I could describe it.



If only it's possible for an autistic to gain a permanent state of higher processing speed and capacity -- to afford all the unfiltered inputs and disorganized would-be outputs into order that the majority of the autistics experiences...

Why am I wishing this? Because I've experienced it and I want to know if anyone else had.


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SharonB
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21 Mar 2020, 9:22 am

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
(for each paragraph of the original post - I didn't actually count, that's an estimate)



HacKING
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21 Mar 2020, 10:16 pm

JimSpark wrote:
HacKING wrote:
JimSpark wrote:
HacKING wrote:
I can't claim to represent everybody with autism when I speak, because that just isn't true. But what I am about to speak to is in my experience with myself and others, a common outcome of having autism. The problem lies in this-
Us with ASD often have very analytical minds that obsess over the slightest details of the things we get into. Our minds are so finely tuned to detail that even somebody talking too much can be too much input because we take in absolutely everything. And that taking in of everything and obsession to detail can result in quite a lot of thinking. For example what you are actually getting with this post is a consequence of me being isolated with my thoughts and therefore I am delivering to this stream of consciousness that I hope can be useful to those of you who are struggling with themselves right now.

My point is, I believe us with ASD are thinkers, and not just any kind of thinker, but thinkers so utterly consumed by our thoughts that it can be hard to give the outside world any attention. And I believe what actually goes on in my mind and the minds of others with ASD is frankly, a beautiful thing. I constantly amaze myself with the sheer depths of my thoughts and yet, I find myself unable to express those same thoughts I had so articulately in my head to other people. Which is partially why I'm typing this. I need somebody to see my mind in real time so it isn't just me who knows I think like this.

That's the fundamental problem. A lot of what goes through our minds isn't necessarily going to be expressed verbally to other people and as a consequence of this introspection-expresion inequality, we are often vastly underestimated by our peers, who on the outside may see us as simple and repetitive people who occasionally lose control of our emotions over seemingly nothing. Additionally, the world around us may not even necessarily place any value in our thoughts because they themselves are actually the simple and restrictive ones, and all this of course, leads to things that can be absolutely devestating to one's self worth; bullying, being misunderstood, patronized, and ridiculed. How do we even respond to all these things?

Well the way I see it, there's several ways we respond to it. I can't tell you which approach is the best but I can definitely tell you which one is the worst- caving into the devaluation from the outside world, and submitting to the demands they put on you. This will send you down a dark path of being somebody you are not and could undermine a bright future for those with ambitions aside from social validation. Another bad approach is withdrawing so much from society that you can't make anything of yourself.

Here's the approach I take, and the one I recommend. So first off as you're seeing with this very post- I have an articulate thought, I write it down somewhere, such as on this forum. That way it's archived and you can even show doubters these posts which may actually help them understand that there's more than meets the eye. Another thing is, NEVER give up your interests no matter what somebody says unless your interest hurts other people in a direct sense, such as an interest in fighting people. If anything you should double down and seek the crowds that will appreciate what you have to offer. This could be people with ASD or NTs that are supportive. And never forget who you actually are inside because even if you have a hard time expressing it, that is you and don't ever let them take that from you.

I hope this post helped some of you feel better and that it got out my thoughts accurately.


That's a wonderful post. So many valuable insights, some I've thought about and done myself, but others I haven't and provide good food for thought.

Thank you for taking time to post it! :D


You're welcome. Which thoughts in it have you thought and which are new to you?


The familiar parts are:
1) the idea that we think so much more than what we can speak/express to others.
2) the ways that some of us autistics think, particularly during periods of hyperfocus, are a very beautiful thing. This is a personal one for me, as when I was a child in the 1970s, I could hyperfocus so easily and stay hyperfocused for very long periods of time, and therefore learned so many things in depth in those topics I had interests. Teachers and other adults who observed my ability to learn things in depth thought I was somewhat of a genius. But the school and working worlds don't often allow anyone time to hyperfocus, and rewards only those who multi-task well. If you can't easily juggle doing several things at once, you'll get left behind and thought of as rather simple-minded when that's actually the furthest thing from the truth.

The part that was new to me is the idea of recording interesting thoughts and ideas in posts on this forum. I do know how to search for my prior posts in WP, so going forward I could use the forum as an easy way to keep track of those things I've written, much of which comes out while my mind is in hyperfocus. Of course, I'd want to limit that only to thoughts and ideas relevant to the thread at hand :)


It's kinda like keeping a journal except more focused.