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jjstar
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18 Oct 2007, 2:07 pm

samtoo wrote:
13. What does that mean? :oops:


In other words - Do you feel that the amount of immunizations a human being is subjected to since birth are warranted and necessary?


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Panzyo
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18 Oct 2007, 2:35 pm

I like to win debates and I can tolerate a loss. What I can't deal with is someone dropping out and trying to turn me into a badguy. I did nothing but refute your arguments and that somehow makes me irrational?

I apologize if I came across as confrontational. I didn't mean to. I do, however, think everything in your first post is nonsense. That's my opinion. You can either debate it like I'm debating yours or you can continue to ignore me.



GoatOnFire
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18 Oct 2007, 2:35 pm

jjstar wrote:
Do you believe everything you're told?
Did you drink Kool-Aide when you were a kid?
Do you live your life vicariously through TV shows?
Do you believe what the FDA tells you?
Do you follow authority figures blindly?
Do you read newspapers?
Do you believe in Democracy?
Do you put your faith in doctors?
Do you follow fashion?
Do you *follow the crowd* because it seems right even if it feels wrong?
Do you hum commercial tunes?
Do you buy cheap food because it's on sale, even though it's unhealthy?
Do you believe that innoculations are a great necessity?
Do you listen to *pop* music?.


1. No
2. Occasionally
3. Not really, but I don't have a life to live
4. Usually, not always
5. No
6. So what, sometimes there's nothing else to read, just because I sometimes read them doesn't mean I believe them
7. No
8. Sometimes you have to
9. Not really
10. There is very little that feels wrong to me
11. No
12. I buy unhealthy food because it tastes better and it's cheap. $3 for fried chicken sounds better than 10 for a damn salad
13. A great necessity, no
14. No


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Last edited by GoatOnFire on 19 Oct 2007, 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

becca423b
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18 Oct 2007, 7:00 pm

"zero proof that polio even exists today"



WHAT??? there are frequent outbreaks in Africa, and Afghanistan and Pakistan!! they think it's eradicated, and then it pops up someplace. the only way to stop the outbreaks is to vaccinate everyone.

Furthermore, what's wrong w/ doctors? or the FDA? What would we do w/out the FDA? How would we know drugs and food were safe? Have you ever read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle? Because that's what it was like before the FDA. I prefer my sausage without rat feces thank you very much.

Oh, and kool aid might be terrible for you, but that doesn't mean it's not delicious! :D

And newspapers? How else would you know what's going on in the world? I think it's important to keep up on current events. What's wrong with newspapers? We SHOULD pay attention to the world around us..... Granted, newspapers are biased, obviously, but there's no form of media that isn't.

Anyway, I think you're being a bit harsh on people. I don't think that kool aide and newspapers makes me a sheep!



LostInSpace
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18 Oct 2007, 7:04 pm

jjstar wrote:
Regarding the innoculations - there's zero proof that polio even exists today


There's an undergrad at my college right now from India who is in a wheelchair because of polio. Plenty of areas still have to deal with polio.



TheMidnightJudge
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18 Oct 2007, 9:11 pm

jjstar wrote:
Do you live your life vicariously through TV shows?
Do you believe what the FDA tells you?
Do you believe that innoculations are a great necessity?


Yes to the ones I quoted. The third one isn't black and white though. People fear vaccines because they never had to fear what vaccines prevent.



jjstar
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19 Oct 2007, 5:09 am

becca423b wrote:
"zero proof that polio even exists today"



WHAT??? there are frequent outbreaks in Africa, and Afghanistan and Pakistan!! they think it's eradicated, and then it pops up someplace. the only way to stop the outbreaks is to vaccinate everyone.
!


Oh becca. I guess you never heard of biological warfare.
Thank goodness for Google, eh? Now you can find out all kinds of nifty stuff about all kinds of whacky situations. Just remember you heard it here first!


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jjstar
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19 Oct 2007, 5:15 am

LostInSpace wrote:
jjstar wrote:
Regarding the innoculations - there's zero proof that polio even exists today


There's an undergrad at my college right now from India who is in a wheelchair because of polio. Plenty of areas still have to deal with polio.


http://wearcam.org/decon/geoff_metcalf_ ... witz6.html

http://www.zkea.com/categories/category1.html


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LadyMacbeth
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19 Oct 2007, 8:24 am

jjstar wrote:
LadyMacbeth wrote:
Since when did buying cheap food even though it's bad for you make you a sheep? I buy cheap food because THAT'S ALL I CAN AFFORD.



Then I guess you just don't know that there are healthy alternatives to purchasing food in a supermarket/grocery but require a tad more effort and maybe even some humility - I'm thinking Freegans and farmer's markets at the end of the day. Being poor doesn't have to spell ignorance and bad health habits either for that matter. Just getting some basic information about coops, markets, farms could make all the diff between eating crap and eating the way the body needs.


Quote:
I get inoculations because I don't want to DIE. What's wrong with that?


Who said you were going to die if you didn't get a shot?

Quote:
I read newspapers to find out what goes on in the world I LIVE IN. Doesn't seem like a following action to me.


Because people with political and social agendas write for newspapers, giving you their perspective on *news* when in fact they do not tell you the entire story from all angles. They tell you what they want you to know and it's upon that reality that you yourself formulate an opinion. Newspapers write to sell copies, they entice you with what they think will make you buy their brand. They give you bonuses in the form of coupons and *helpful hints and recipies* so you'll be sure to be a repeat customer. Heck they even have *funnies* to keep you entertained while on the front pages tragedy and corruption unfold delicately.

Seriously - if you want to know what's really going on in the world from the people's perspective you get your info from numerous unbiased sources - on the web. Drudge comes to mind - but there are others. Personally I read about 10 diff sources and formulate some kind of opinion but only after study, verification and just plain discernment based on my own knowledge. I take no one's word for anything and it's not news till I've seen it with my own two eyes. I don't trust *sources* - I trust resources.


Quote:
If I'm not supposed to put my faith in doctors, who can I go to when I need help medically?


You. Yourself. 99% of the time you can heal yourself. And you are your own expert on your own body like no one else could ever be. 99% of all tests are needlessly conducted. 99% of all medication is not warranted when there are alternative herbs, diet changes and excercise that could help if not cure - whereis if i recall correctly there is not one medication out there that has EVER cured anyone of anything except a swollen wallet.


Quote:
Pop music is POPULAR by definition. So if it's catchy, we like it.


Who's we? As in we the sheeple? LOL



Quote:
Commercial music by definition is any music that makes money. So only poor bands are good? Despite the fact that band that are good sell more records, and thus BECOME commercially successful, and POPULAR (see above). Unless you're referring to commercials in the sense of advertising.. in which case, OF COURSE we do. They're made for that in mind. Doesn't mean we're going to buy the product.


Popular by the industry's standards that sell you glitz, sex and adrenaline in a shiny jewel box or nifty i tuney download. It sells because there's a payoff for you. Popular music is designed to dumb you down and distract you with *beats*. The video just added another level of commercialism where they now shove fashion, trends, politics and immorality in your face so that on all fronts the consumer is hooked on a feeling and has *gotta buy that CD* to be cool, with it, down with it, being accepted and other emotional needs. On a purely musical level there's little there to feed the soul, unless of course you'll go for junk food. Because that's exactly what it is for the ears.
[/quote]

So if I have lung cancer, I can heal myself? If I need a heart transplant, I can mend/GROW my own? I should just cut someone else's out with my in-depth surgical knowledge that I definitely have? I had pneumonia in January of this year; would I have miraculously eliminated all of the gunk in my lungs if I simply believed in myself? Don't be an idiot.

Not all consumers of music buy it because it will make them "cool". Music is designed not to dumb us down, but to soothe us and make us feel emotions. I'd be lost without music. That doesn't make me a follower of the latest trend. And as for the junk food comment, each to their own.

Just because I read newspapers doesn't mean I believe every word said in them. "Funnies" are there to amuse ppl. They don't just buy a newspaper because of them. And you're obviously unaware that EVERY source of information ANYWHERE is biased towards the writers point of view. I think if you put your faith in conspiracy writers it is you who is part of the "sheeple", not us.

If I didn't get a shot for TB or meningitis who knows what would've happened. I'd rather be safe than sorry on that one.

And as healthy alternatives over here in England are most DEFINITELY of a higher price than junk food (which I like the taste of anyway, I don't just buy it to be part of the crowd), I simply cannot afford things such as soy milk, asparagus, or whatever is the new "alternative health" food this month. That, to me, is following the crowd and the advice of others. I'm perfectly healthy and I eat crap. I don't feel in the least bit more ill than when I tried this stupid health food diet. In fact, it made me lose weight and as I'm barely 100lb as it is, that isn't a good thing.

I think you are misunderstanding the definition of "sheeple".

Quote:
Sheeple is a term of disparagement, a portmanteau created by combining the words "sheep" and "people"; a reference to herd mentality. It is often used to denote persons who acquiesce to authority, and thus undermine their own human individuality. The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by authority figures, without processing it to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them. The term is generally used in a political or religious sense.

The label seems to have originated among conspiracy theorists in the United States of a far right political persuasion. The Wall Street Journal first reported the label in print in 1984, where its reporter encountered the word used by the proprietor of an American Opinion bookstore affiliated with the John Birch Society.[1] In this usage, taxpayers were derided for their perceived blind conformity, as opposed to the conspiracy theorists and tax protesters who thought independently. "Sheeple" are people who pay their taxes and accept what the government and the mass media tell them.


Most of the things you put on that "you're a "sheeple" if" list does not explain what you mean by the term. If you had put maybe "if you believe everything they tell you in newspapers" or "if you believe everything a doctor tells you", or even "if you buy popular music because you think you should" maybe you'd be right. But you didn't. You made innocuous comments about ppl, but it went a little awry didn't it?

Now.. do you REALLY BELIEVE in the term first recorded in print in the Wall Street Journal? Uh. Oh.


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jjstar
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19 Oct 2007, 9:43 am

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Now.. do you REALLY BELIEVE in the term first recorded in print in the Wall Street Journal? Uh. Oh.


Honestly, I had no idea it was coined by the WSJ first. As a matter of fact, I don't know where I first heard it. One fine day it appeared on the net in some connotation or another and it was claimed as a fine analogy for the unconscious collective.


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Angelus-Mortis
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19 Oct 2007, 10:06 am

jjstar wrote:
Do you believe everything you're told?

Faith is blind. So no.

Quote:
Did you drink Kool-Aide when you were a child?


I wanted to, but my parents said they were unhealthy.

Quote:
Do you live your life vicariously through TV shows?


I used to watch cartoons as a kid, and wanted more of them, but now I don't watch TV much.

Quote:
Do you believe what the FDA tells you?


What's the FDA?

Quote:
Do you follow authority figures blindly?


Authority figures are usually politicians, and they're dirty liars. So no. And I don't take well to people who need their egoes strummed.

Quote:
Do you read newspapers?


Newspapers are full of crap that make people with emotions react. It's boring to me. So no.

Quote:
Do you believe in Democracy?


I would like to, but I know in reality it doesn't always happen.

Quote:
Do you put your faith in doctors?


I have no faith.

Quote:
Do you follow fashion?


Female fashions are too flashy, gaudy and reveal too much skin. So no.

Quote:
Do you *follow the crowd* because it seems right even if it feels wrong?


There's a difference between results of a scientific test that are made as objectively as possible and most people believing in something with nothing but faith. So no. I don't really care how it feels anyways; it only matters what is actually there.

Quote:
Do you hum commercial tunes?


If you mean like that lame Mazda commercial, of course not.

Quote:
Do you buy cheap food because it's on sale, even though it's unhealthy?


It's on sale?

Quote:
Do you believe that innoculations are a great necessity?


Since adding antigens could promote resistant bacteria to grow, that might actually be not beneficial. So no.

Quote:
Do you listen to *pop* music?


Pop music usually involves some crappy sappy love lyrics that are empty, or sung by empty people, and are, I guess, cheap. So no.

Quote:
If you answered YES to more than 9 of these questions - you are a sheeple. Baaah Baaah black sheep, have you been fooled? Yessir, yessir a whole lifetime through.


That's nice to know I'm still a robot.


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ev8
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19 Oct 2007, 12:38 pm

jjstar wrote:
ev8 wrote:
I listen to GOOD pop music. That's about it. :D


Cool. Like what?


Junior Senior, a dash each of Hellogoodbye and Justin Timberlake, some older Nsync, Say Anything, Ted Leo, Broken Social Scene, The Unicorns, Weezer's Blue Album, They Might Be Giants of course, Annie, and a little bit of Beyonce - mainly because she's so damn fly.



LostInSpace
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19 Oct 2007, 12:44 pm

jjstar wrote:
You. Yourself. 99% of the time you can heal yourself. And you are your own expert on your own body like no one else could ever be. 99% of all tests are needlessly conducted. 99% of all medication is not warranted when there are alternative herbs, diet changes and excercise that could help if not cure - whereis if i recall correctly there is not one medication out there that has EVER cured anyone of anything except a swollen wallet.[/b]


Well, I guess I should tell my advisor to stop treating her stage 4 lymphoma with chemotherapy then. I guess she should also stop taking the medications that are stopping her liver (infiltrated by tumors) from failing. Who knows, yellow might be an attractive color for her.

Where are the studies you got this information from by the way? Or did you just make these numbers up?

I don't doubt that lifestyle changes and herbal supplements can be helpful in the case of chronic illnesses, or possibly even some acute illnesses, not to mention prevention, but homeopathy is not the be all and end all of health, just as medical science doesn't hold all the answers either. For holding such unyielding opinions on the efficacy of homeopathy while rejecting medical science as a whole and refusing to refute the objections of others with logic rather than rhetoric... jjstar, I name thee "sheeple."



mikibacsi1124
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19 Oct 2007, 1:17 pm

jjstar wrote:
Do you believe everything you're told?

No way!
Quote:
Did you drink Kool-Aide when you were a child?

Usually not willingly.
Quote:
Do you live your life vicariously through TV shows?

I suppose you cold say that.
Quote:
Do you believe what the FDA tells you?

Sometimes.
Quote:
Do you follow authority figures blindly?

Hell no!
Quote:
Do you read newspapers?

Yes. I am a journalism major, after all.
Quote:
Do you believe in Democracy?

Sometimes.
Quote:
Do you put your faith in doctors?

I pretty much have to.
Quote:
Do you follow fashion?
Not really. I usually don't find out about fashion trends until people start talking about how much they hate them.
Quote:
Do you *follow the crowd* because it seems right even if it feels wrong?
Not anymore.
Quote:
Do you hum commercial tunes?
Yeah. They don't usually convince me to buy the products, but many of them are just fun to listen and sing along to.
Quote:
Do you buy cheap food because it's on sale, even though it's unhealthy?
Yes. Or sometimes I just buy it because it's appetizing. :D
Quote:
Do you believe that innoculations are a great necessity?
Well, they can do nothing but good.
Quote:
Do you listen to *pop* music?
That can mean all kinds of things these days, but the short answer is: Yes.

I guess by these harsh standars you could say I'm a Sheeple, but I really only do this stuff because I like it or because it helps me get through life more easily.



GoatOnFire
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19 Oct 2007, 5:16 pm

mikibacsi1124 wrote:
jjstar wrote:
Do you buy cheap food because it's on sale, even though it's unhealthy?
Yes. Or sometimes I just buy it because it's appetizing. :D


Finally, a kindred spirit who understands good food. :D


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