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Apollyon
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12 Nov 2007, 2:42 am

You don't just "catch" it.

I was just talking to my friend, who was relating a conversation with her co-worker. This co-worker also does not "fit in" and has narrow interests. However, he claimed to my friend that he developed Asperger's. I told her, "Either you have AS or you don't. If you do have it, you have always had it. You don't go from being a suave socialite- to waking up one morning tessellating three-dimensional objects in your head and blundering at parties. That is not how it works. Furthermore, having limited interests does not automatically make you autistic- maybe he is just boring." This opened another topic of discussion: Asperger's being the new ADD.

I am seeing a lot of people in real life who claim they have AS (without a diagnosis- although there are certainly some instances when a self-diagnosis is accurate) who, in reality, just don't conform to the latest zeitgeist. This, to me, is a touchy issue- on one hand, it raises awareness in the public. On the other hand, it cheapens the struggles of those who truly do fall into the autistic spectrum, and gives many the leverage they need to be, for lack of a better word- lazy. I can't do this, because I have AS. When in reality, they can, but just don't want to.

Eccentricity, shyness, awkwardness, and being "picked on" are not always symptoms of a condition. Sometimes, they're just personality traits. For example, that's like having bronchitis and jumping to the conclusion that you have tuberculosis.

Does anyone else notice this?



Kitsy
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12 Nov 2007, 2:47 am

I noticed you signed up yesterday and already 57 posts.

I don't care for people that think they just catch aspergers and alot of people will use that as ammo towards people who really do have it to say, Oh I hear that from everyone now. Usually those types of people will be a jerk regardless.

Just curious, if it is becoming trendy to have aspergers then what is causing it in your opinion? I have an opinon, I'd like to hear yours though.


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Apollyon
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12 Nov 2007, 3:06 am

Kitsy wrote:
I noticed you signed up yesterday and already 57 posts.

I don't care for people that think they just catch aspergers and alot of people will use that as ammo towards people who really do have it to say, Oh I hear that from everyone now. Usually those types of people will be a jerk regardless.

Just curious, if it is becoming trendy to have aspergers then what is causing it in your opinion? I have an opinon, I'd like to hear yours though.


For the high post count... I enjoy the discussion here very much. I also feel very open here. It is a good thing.

With regards to "ammo", yes, that is precisely my sentiment in regards to faux versus real Aspies. I manage to withhold this information from vanilla folk, but I am simply dreading the day that someone uses "I hear that from everyone" against me. Yes, these people are jerks, but- when the jerk in question is an employer, there is a serious problem.

I am not sure what is causing this "Asperger's Epidemic". It is probably a social issue more than anything else- if that is the case, I will probably never figure it out, no matter how much I study people. It does seem that everyone these days is on some form of medication. One theory, is that people are progressively becoming "softer". Whereas long ago people just dealt with their issues, weakness was unacceptable, and the general consensus was "either you're normal or crazy, there is nothing in between", chemical imbalances (for example) are becoming more "common" and accepted, and there are more gray areas than ever before in history. Everything is fairly manufactured and consumer driven. Even subversive groups such as "goth" are now mass-produced and marketed (hence EMO), so perhaps, mental disabilities are no different. Manufactured, available, and profitable.



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12 Nov 2007, 3:15 am

Good answers.

I've noticed something. Remember when tattoos were "eww" worthy from NT's but now alot of people have them? Sex pistols and punk bands were not normal yet now you see a bunch of people wearing punk shirts even though they don't really like the music?

If you can't convert them, take on their look. If you can't convert them, add what you view of as abnormal traits into your own work and pass it off as your own or something you enjoy. Much like how alot of paganism elements were put into christianity. IT's always been a conversion ploy.

The truth of the matter is, people that can't tolerate differences have extreme difficulties accepting things that stand out. Almost like a form of people OCD. If it's not straight, fix it. If the wires of the brain are not straight, straighten them out.

It's been this way for a long time. It's how people eliminate things that THEY cannot understand to cover up the fact that there is something wrong with them. That thing that is wrong is that they know that they have difficulties accepting those that are different on the inside.

They can sit there and take a rebellious look but at the same time, the truth comes out when they cringe at those that are individuals within.


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KBABZ
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12 Nov 2007, 3:21 am

Urgh, I know curing Aspies sound bad, but MANUFACTURED Aspies sounds even worse!


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12 Nov 2007, 4:05 am

The idea that someone might choose to be labeled an Aspie because they think it's trendy or because it could be used to excuse poor performance (or both) is repellent, yes. At the same time, I wonder whether I would have scrupled about using that particular "Get Out of Jail Free" card, had it been available to me when I was younger. Much too late now! :D



Apollyon
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12 Nov 2007, 4:38 am

Excellent point about NT people adopting fringe styles and traits, and absorbing them. It is like the old phrase, "if you can't beat them- join them." And yes, this has most likely been going on since the dawn of sentient beings.

Then there is the question of, "why do NT's have to conform and feel like they belong?" To us, we benefit from not belonging to cliques. Instead of compulsively, blindly following trends and popularity, we turn inwards to find answers. We nurture, develop, and refine our own interests- for many, to the point of perfection. To me, this makes for a more interesting, more robust personality. Furthermore, noncompliance with consumerism means we spend less money on things which are superficial and meaningless. I think- that this lack of desire to contribute, to not strengthen their numbers, and therefor power- is what truly gets under the "mainstream's" skin. A person who is isolated from the norm will bear their own opinions. This is not conducive towards control. Arrogance, aggression, and contempt for those who truly do not fit the mold (the real outsiders, not alleged individuals who are in reality, still conformist within the parameters of their own group) to me represents fear in the greater consciousness- fear of losing control. Fear that established traditions, mindsets, and doctrines may be challenged. Fear of societal upheaval. This sort of attitude, though, not only conflicts with the well-being of Aspies, but includes anyone who dares to be different. As such, I do feel that those who are incapable of conforming (as opposed to those who have a choice) truly receive the brunt of the issue.

As those who fall within the autism spectrum are not visibly "disabled"*, the ignorance factor is exacerbated, hence the "you're weird" comments. It also means, that there is no differentiation (to the less informed) between the genuine and the fakes. I don't know what is worse- being called a "freak", or being called a "hypochondriac". They are both ugly words.
*I do not consider AS a disability.

Society's obsession (a "special interest" for NTs?) with conformity is an entire subject in of itself. I don't personally understand it completely, but I do have theories. I believe it is a survival instinct.

Prehistoric man lived in familial groups and struggled to survive in harsh conditions. Natural selection says that only the strongest and smartest will survive. Furthermore, if a species is to survive (especially on the brink of extinction, and some theories suggest that at one point, Humankind survived a population bottleneck) it must be able to reproduce. Loners would not be able to reproduce, and there is truly "power in numbers". Stragglers get left behind. "Strength" is encouraged generation after generation. Over time, this becomes ingrained.

In contemporary times, we have no natural predators to speak of. Technological advancements can (sometimes) prevent epidemics which previously throughout history wiped out most of the population. We no longer have to scavenge for food. Yet, society STILL possesses the "clan mind".

People who claim to be different, but are not truly "themselves"- are only in a different clan than the one they see on the almighty television. Cliques are cliques, plain and simple, and I doubt the masses will ever realize that you cannot just "rewire" a person.

In conclusion, I only advocate a cure for those who actually want it. The rest of us should be allowed to decide for ourselves. It speaks volumes when people are fixated on changing others. To me that says they don't understand themselves, and are missing a vital piece of the Human journey.



Apollyon
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12 Nov 2007, 4:40 am

SleepyDragon wrote:
The idea that someone might choose to be labeled an Aspie because they think it's trendy or because it could be used to excuse poor performance (or both) is repellent, yes. At the same time, I wonder whether I would have scrupled about using that particular "Get Out of Jail Free" card, had it been available to me when I was younger. Much too late now! :D


Oddly enough, even had I known from day one- I would have thought, "I didn't realize I could do that!"



Kitsy
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12 Nov 2007, 5:03 am

Apollyon wrote:
Excellent point about NT people adopting fringe styles and traits, and absorbing them. It is like the old phrase, "if you can't beat them- join them." And yes, this has most likely been going on since the dawn of sentient beings.

Then there is the question of, "why do NT's have to conform and feel like they belong?" To us, we benefit from not belonging to cliques. Instead of compulsively, blindly following trends and popularity, we turn inwards to find answers. We nurture, develop, and refine our own interests- for many, to the point of perfection. To me, this makes for a more interesting, more robust personality. Furthermore, noncompliance with consumerism means we spend less money on things which are superficial and meaningless. I think- that this lack of desire to contribute, to not strengthen their numbers, and therefor power- is what truly gets under the "mainstream's" skin. A person who is isolated from the norm will bear their own opinions. This is not conducive towards control. Arrogance, aggression, and contempt for those who truly do not fit the mold (the real outsiders, not alleged individuals who are in reality, still conformist within the parameters of their own group) to me represents fear in the greater consciousness- fear of losing control. Fear that established traditions, mindsets, and doctrines may be challenged. Fear of societal upheaval. This sort of attitude, though, not only conflicts with the well-being of Aspies, but includes anyone who dares to be different. As such, I do feel that those who are incapable of conforming (as opposed to those who have a choice) truly receive the brunt of the issue.

As those who fall within the autism spectrum are not visibly "disabled"*, the ignorance factor is exacerbated, hence the "you're weird" comments. It also means, that there is no differentiation (to the less informed) between the genuine and the fakes. I don't know what is worse- being called a "freak", or being called a "hypochondriac". They are both ugly words.
*I do not consider AS a disability.

Society's obsession (a "special interest" for NTs?) with conformity is an entire subject in of itself. I don't personally understand it completely, but I do have theories. I believe it is a survival instinct.

Prehistoric man lived in familial groups and struggled to survive in harsh conditions. Natural selection says that only the strongest and smartest will survive. Furthermore, if a species is to survive (especially on the brink of extinction, and some theories suggest that at one point, Humankind survived a population bottleneck) it must be able to reproduce. Loners would not be able to reproduce, and there is truly "power in numbers". Stragglers get left behind. "Strength" is encouraged generation after generation. Over time, this becomes ingrained.

In contemporary times, we have no natural predators to speak of. Technological advancements can (sometimes) prevent epidemics which previously throughout history wiped out most of the population. We no longer have to scavenge for food. Yet, society STILL possesses the "clan mind".

People who claim to be different, but are not truly "themselves"- are only in a different clan than the one they see on the almighty television. Cliques are cliques, plain and simple, and I doubt the masses will ever realize that you cannot just "rewire" a person.

In conclusion, I only advocate a cure for those who actually want it. The rest of us should be allowed to decide for ourselves. It speaks volumes when people are fixated on changing others. To me that says they don't understand themselves, and are missing a vital piece of the Human journey.


Thank you for sharing your in-depth insight and in small sentences. Welcome aboard.

I see it this way. Even though there are the trendies making everything trendy, the truth is always revealed within time. Those that say forget about it once the fad is over go back to being their trendy selves and follow the next fad and the ones who were what they were will stay the same.


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Brittany2907
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12 Nov 2007, 5:28 am

KBABZ wrote:
Urgh, I know curing Aspies sound bad, but MANUFACTURED Aspies sounds even worse!


I agree.

I have heard someone at a cafe once disgusing autism with someone else. One of the ladies was talking about her lack of interest in what is vogue and said..."It's like I have developed Asperger Syndrome,".

It is very irritating that AS is now being a "phrase" used by the public to describe themselves or others who are JUST infact LAZY or have INDIFFERENT THINKING to the majority.
Not only will it make people who really have AS look bad...but it will also limit support resources for those who need it because "so many people have AS".

I understand that some can't afford to get an official diagnosis or may have gone to see a doctor which knew nothing about AS and there for say that they don't have it. For some, a self diagnosis may just be correct.
Just using AS as a "catch phrase" is not ok though.


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12 Nov 2007, 10:11 am

A question if I may:
If nts are using Aspie-ism as the new "add", why am I still rejected? If it is becoming "in" to be on the spectrum, why do they still treat me as though I were not worthy of consideration?


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Apollyon
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12 Nov 2007, 10:32 am

AnnabelLee wrote:
A question if I may:
If nts are using Aspie-ism as the new "add", why am I still rejected? If it is becoming "in" to be on the spectrum, why do they still treat me as though I were not worthy of consideration?


Because they are not Aspies, as they are fully capable of understanding and playing social mechanics and games, and they are only one clique. If you're a genuine Aspie- you're different from them.



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12 Nov 2007, 1:36 pm

Its not whether AS is contagious ! !

Its whether NTism IS ! !

There's a nightmare from Kafka for you ! ! One day you wake up, and go to your desk, and throw away all your books on string theory. Rubbish you shout ! ! Then you go to your closet, and throw all your clothes on the floor. "I must get the latest trendy clothing and style magazine, and spend lots of money I don't have for trendy expensive clothes so I can impress people I secretly despise." Then you go the cell phone store, and buy the most expensive new phone, and then start talking endlessly to vapid people regarding vapid topics so people can admire your taste in cell phones. At lunch, you go to an overly expensive clubby pub so you can try and pick up equally shallow members of the opposite sex for empty meaningless sex....

Ewww, I'm scaring meself ! !!


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12 Nov 2007, 1:53 pm

It's even scarier to think that there are Aspies out there that do this in an effort to fit in.


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12 Nov 2007, 2:32 pm

Didn't we just have this conversation?

Ah, yes. I refer the Honourable Gentleman to this thread.


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12 Nov 2007, 7:19 pm

Brittany2907 wrote:
I understand that some can't afford to get an official diagnosis or may have gone to see a doctor which knew nothing about AS and there for say that they don't have it. For some, a self diagnosis may just be correct.

That would be my case. I literally have no money and no transportation (and the only doctor who knows about AS in my state AND sees adults is 200 miles away), so it's not like I can just go and get confirmation any time I want.

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Just using AS as a "catch phrase" is not ok though.

I agree with you there. I don't say I have AS just because, I say I have it because I've been like this all my life and just slipped through the cracks, so to speak.


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