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androbot01
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19 Mar 2015, 6:04 pm

So, I'm in this employment training program for people with mental health issues. It uses the principles of cognitive behaviour therapy. Mindfulness, how one interprets a situation is subject to thinking style, ie thoughts control feelings, my obstacles have as much power as I give them. All good stuff. But it is playing on my nerves.
It seems that attitude is the key to success. But experience has tainted my attitude, so if I invest a lot of time and energy in this, I could be end up even more jaded. < damn, I did it again> I don't know how things will go, so I am wasting energy worrying. Worries are illusions.
I guess it is difficult because negativity is what I am used to.
I'm rambling. I have no idea what I want to say. I guess just that I am not in my comfort zone.

I'm wondering if other people have succeeded with CBT, or was it a waste of time?



kraftiekortie
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19 Mar 2015, 6:05 pm

I sorta believe in CBT myself--in case you haven't noticed! :wink:

Seriously....you don't have to take ALL the advice that's given you. I'm not really a lover of over-enthusiastic types myself (despite my enthusiasm here! LOL).

Your objective is to get and keep a job, so you could get a better apartment.

Not to become a CBT expert.

What I do when people offer me advice: I sift out the good from the bad.



Orangez
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19 Mar 2015, 6:14 pm

CBT is a waste of time and many studies have shown that it has no long term effects. CBT is basically prostitution as you are paying someone to be your friend.



B19
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19 Mar 2015, 6:18 pm

Essentially, CBT is aimed at people who make "faulty attributions". I don't think it is a very good fit just because someone is on the spectrum. Faulty attributions is not an intrinsic aspect of Aspergers, though a person with Aspergers can of course be an individual who makes faulty attributions - just as there are NTs who do. What are your "faulty attributions" supposed to be?

When hardline behaviourists (B F Skinner, and his offshoot acolytes) realised that their day as dominant in psychology was over - even worse, they realised they were a laughing stock to some in the profession - they looked around for a new way to present behaviourism in a more favourable light, and techniques to promote that. That's how CBT came into being. Defining "thoughts" strictly as "behaviours", they try to reprogramme that behaviour - assuming it is faulty in the first place (and by whose standards and definitions?)

After a while, (quite a while), people woke up to the essentially behaviourist doctrine underlying CBT, so it was time again to give it a facelift to make it more palatable and attractive to potential clients. So relatively recently it has morphed into DBT.
(Dialectical Behaviour Therapy).

Which is sort of CBT with a more human face... in DBT the thought reprogramming is more client-directed (though not entirely). For a simplistic example of DBT: Client says: I think my life is pretty hopeless. DBT therapist responds: What would a wise person say to you in response to that statement?"

I detest behaviourist psychology in all its forms. The underlying philosophy and ethics are constant. I am sure some people feel they have been helped by CBT and DBT and good for them. I am glad they found help. However I still detest it and routinely viewing it as a curative therapy for Aspergers would be totally inappropriate.



Last edited by B19 on 19 Mar 2015, 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

androbot01
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19 Mar 2015, 6:20 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I sorta believe in CBT myself--in case you haven't noticed! :wink:

I've noticed. :D

Quote:
Seriously....you don't have to take ALL the advice that's given you. I'm not really a lover of over-enthusiastic types myself (despite my enthusiasm here! LOL).

Your objective is to get and keep a job, so you could get a better apartment.

Not to become a CBT expert.

True. I'm over focusing because I'm disoriented.

Orangez wrote:
CBT is basically prostitution as you are paying someone to be your friend.

She's not really being my friend, more like a really enthusiastic teacher.



kraftiekortie
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19 Mar 2015, 6:22 pm

I'm not into behaviorism myself. I detest Skinner and his ilk.

But I do believe in reality-testing when one is depressed.



B19
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19 Mar 2015, 6:29 pm

Behaviorism itself is based on a huge "faulty attribution" that humans are soulless creatures who are merely a result of their programming - eg the capacity for love doesn't exist (it's just a learned behaviour). That's what behaviourism essentially is, whatever form it takes.



androbot01
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19 Mar 2015, 6:32 pm

B19 wrote:
What are your "faulty attributions" supposed to be?

Well my negative thinking supposedly is a "roadblock" for me. Early days yet. It's a 2 month program.

Quote:
Defining "thoughts" strictly as "behaviours", they try to reprogramme that behaviour - assuming it is faulty in the first place (and by whose standards and definitions?)

Today we learned that thoughts cause emotions. We can't control what happens, but we can our reactions. Our thinking will determine our feelings and action.
But sometimes I feel without any thoughts. I just get overwhelmed by emotion. So I'm not sure I buy it.

Quote:
I detest behaviourist psychology in all its forms. The underlying philosophy and ethics are constant. I am sure some people feel they have been helped by CBT and DBT and good for them. I am glad they found help. However I still detest it and routinely viewing it as a curative therapy for Aspergers would be totally inappropriate.


It's gonna be a long two months.



kraftiekortie
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19 Mar 2015, 6:34 pm

Which is why I believe Behaviorism is a bunch of crap. It goes against my total being.

I don't believe "reality-testing" is Behaviorism, though it might be based on behavior. I believe outward behavior is an important assessment tool--alongside more "subconscious/unconscious" manifestations.

I would say that Erik Ericsson is one whom I have a great affinity for.



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19 Mar 2015, 6:34 pm

CBT = "You can think your way into making things better. Don't think negative and negative things won't happen."

That's the same crap my parents kept telling me when I was growing up. It didn't work, then, either.

Maybe you could try prayer. :study:

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kraftiekortie
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19 Mar 2015, 6:36 pm

I never think CBT is the "end-all." It must be used with other therapeutic concepts in a holistic treatment program.



B19
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19 Mar 2015, 6:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm not into behaviorism myself. I detest Skinner and his ilk.

But I do believe in reality-testing when one is depressed.


Unfortunately Kraftie, psychologists don't have an automatic monopoly on reality. Whose reality? I have known some who had a seemingly somewhat narrow view of what reality is. I don't believe that the proposition that emotions are simply a function of thought is reality. If I deliberately jump on your toe, you will feel pain and emotion -and probably significant anger at me. But according to behaviourists you are only "thinking" that you are angry...



androbot01
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19 Mar 2015, 6:39 pm

CBT = "You can think your way into making things better. Don't think negative and negative things won't happen."

And it's your fault because it's your choice.



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19 Mar 2015, 6:41 pm

I read my first CBT book about 15 years ago. It definitely helped lessen my anxiety and depression and be more social. It wasn't a "cure" but it gave me a bit of breathing room when I needed to do important things that I otherwise might have skipped. I got off anxiety meds as well because of CBT. It was a "slow magic" but I did see results. I still have moments where I lose it completely (usually when I'm tired, sick, or have a lot of stuff going on). However, I'm definitely better off than I was in my 20's (I could barely leave the house).

The books I read on CBT never really got too pushy with the motivational aspect. Most of them were about just being more realistic and rational.

I still hate social situations just as much and certain sounds still drive me up the wall. However, with CBT I can gather enough strength to get through those situations with a bit more aplomb.

That being said, I've had friends who said they didn't get anything out of the training. Not sure how much work they actually put in, though.



kraftiekortie
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19 Mar 2015, 6:45 pm

Nope....I wouldn't "think" that I'd be pissed if you deliberately stepped on my toe. I'd be PISSED!

The perception of reality is very individual. There is no "one reality"--though there is, I believe, a relatively "objective" reality which is derived via the "realities" of many people.

My therapeutic approach, should I become a therapist, would be individual-based. I would make some use of "theory"--but I certainly wouldn't rely on it solely. I would rely upon what I observe in the individual person.

One person's ice cream is another person's poison.