Aspergers the result of bad decision making? My theory.

Post Reply New Topic

When I look back at my early childhood I remember having a group of tight friends in my neighborhood, as well as playing with the other kids who would come to my yard or I would go to theirs. In grade five I became immersed in my own world, I decided for some reason I didn't want friends anymore and did my own thing.
I decided I would be a king when I grew up in my own country and was dead set on this goal, I even wrote to Jean Chretian asking to be excused from school so I could pursue this.
In gym class I never played what everyone else was playing, in ninth grade I was transfered to a special program at another school.
About halfway through the year I became friends with some of my classmates, this was the first time in like four years I was interested in having friends. We all went to highschool together in a special program that allowed a few "integrated" classes per semester.
The first day of highschool I decided I wanted to be "normal" now so I decided to skip registration to my special program and follow some "normal" kids.
I eventually got sent where I was supposed to go but I was deadset on just being normal, problem was, due to bad decision making during my socialy formative years, I had no idea how to interact with people resulting in some very angsty years.

So think back, was there a point in your childhood where you decided you would rather play alone? Where freinds were unnessicary? And you regretted it when you got older right?

that's one of the most offensive 'theories' i've seen around here in awhile.

being teased by groups of kids numbering up to fifty was bad enough. having my mom tell me that they can't all be wrong and 'if this is what i'm like, then of course they don't like me' was worse.

and now here's some random wingnut who doesn't like the idea of being out of control of something in her life and choosing to take control by self-blame and blaming others is just. ret*d.

For me it was never my decision to not to want to have friends, I have always wanted to have a few friends. However, I have a need to be alone most of the time, and being around many other people is exhausting and frustrating.

I think that what your implying is that all of the social skills that NTs have and use are learned skilles, developed during socially formative years in childhood, and that none of them are innate characteristics. I don't believe this to be true, I think that there are some skills that are learned, manners and politeness(and others), and some that are innate, the ability to empathize and read people(others as well). It is the innate abilities that Aspies lack to some degree or another.

If you wanted to test your hypothesis though you could take a look to see if there is a higher percentage of aspies among home school, single child families and rural communities where children do not have as much social interaction with their peers during the socially formative years. If there is a higher percentage that would lend weight to your argument, however I believe you would find that the percentage is uniform.

I agree with this, and I think that the reason people with Asperger's are behind on the learned skills is because you need the innate skills to pick them up. If you don't have those, you need to sort of "deconstruct" socialization in order to learn it analytically, which takes much longer (not to mention you first have to realize you need to learn them, then figure out how to do it, etc. etc.).

I know as a child I always wished for friends. I'm sure I made some decisions regarding social interactions that weren't "right" as the NT kids saw it, but I say that is a result, not a cause.

Perhaps the OP behaves in a way that somewhat mimicks AS because of conscious decisions that resulted in not learning socialization? Or perhaps it just increased the problems associated with AS or the noticeability of it?

I know all too well what you mean about being around others is exhasting and frustarating, when I was in Highschool most of the times when I would hang out with new friends I would say almost nothing the entire time, with an intense feeling of discomfort and self conciousness.
(edit): I still prefer to be alone alot.



I can't argue with that, but if you can overcome shyness and accept yourself then others will accept you and want you around. With enough repeated exposure to social situations you will attach less weight to your actions. People give alot of leeway to others, when I was having alot of problems with making friends it was because I was trying to be someone I wasn't, I thought people wouldn't like the real me. But the truth is people can sense if you like who you are, and the easiest thing for them to do then is like you too.



I wasn't trying to say people aren't born with aspergers, I was saying that for some reason people with aspergers don't feel compelled to practice social skills during their most socially formative years, I know it is a concious decision as well because I remember it, I also know I have aspergers because I was diagnosed.

Funny, I don't remember ever thinking I wanted to be socially isolated, I just eventually decided not to let it bother me, as there wasn't a blooming thing I could do to change it anyway, and any attempts to do so blew up most spectacularly.

Yukai, as I've had occasion to point out in another thread, we as Aspies are no less subject to the lure of "magical thinking" than NTs. Should we choose to reject it in favor of verifiable realities, we seem to stand a better chance of success, but we can follow the pixie trail just as readily as any New-Ager.

And what you're exhibiting there is indeed magical thinking - imagining that you can subscribe your neurological status to your failure to perform some obscure ritual during your "formative years". What's forming then, however, is your basic personality, your reactions to stress, to people, to various other social stimuli - not your neurology, which is already pretty well set. Sorry, friend, but your Asperger's is engraved in your mirror neurons, your parietal lobe, your amygdala and hippocampus - not in your childhood experiences.

I figured how to explain this and figured, oh crap, just being plain and short, I don't wanna write all that much:

This is not an autistic issue. Being shy, being anxious, fearing to do bad - it is an often result from living with Asperger's and experiencing continued social failings, that is very true. True for many from what I know and issues that sometimes prevent them more from socialising than their autism itself. But it is not autistic behaviour.

Also, some autistic people are complete unable to make the decision to want to socialise or not to want it.

Not everybody who likes themselves is liked at all by other people, autism can interfere in that greatly.

I've always had friends. Just not very many... I'd say there's only about 3 people I consider to be true friends, despite getting along with almost everyone. In fact the only people I really don't get along with at all are total morons, only one of which has a fools chance at going anywhere in life, and thats only if he learns to stop treating other people like scum. I guess I just go to a really accepting school.

I don't think Asperger's Syndrome is directly caused by decision making. Environmental factors can certainly amplify or suppress the symptoms, but it's causes have been proven to be brain wiring. There's still some debate on what causes the dramatic variation of brain wiring, but I'm fairly sure it's been proven to not have anything to do with the decisions you have made (unless the you made a decision to have your brain physically rewired, which is currently impossible to do, and probably never will be practical).

Ah, I guess I wasn't entirely accurate in interpreting the point you were trying to make, but I can see it now and I do agree with it. Except when considering the common childhood of teasing and bullying that most aspies have experienced I don't believe there is a logical choice other than to revert into one's own world as a defense against the world that shuns us (unless you were luckey enough not to experience his). So devoid of any realistic alternatives I do not believe you can call this a conscious decision for early childhood. However for higher functioning Aspies adults I think your analysis has merits and we can indeed learn to interact better socially and that not doing it now as adults is a conscious decision.

Even with the clarification, this doesn't feel accurate to me, except for the part about other people giving a lot of leeway. I suppose I could pour myself a glass of juice without spilling any too, if I'd just tried harder when I was a toddler or if I really liked myself? I never made a conscious decision not to develop social skills, but instead tried to learn them as soon as I learned about them.

It didn't occur to me to be social or to memorize faces until I was about 10. Sometimes I would do things with other kids or they would do things with me, but I didn't know that you could carry "doing things together" to friendship. After I knew that it was a possibility, I couldn't figure out how to perform the alchemy. I had two friends (and their friends, who were all very nice to me too) to eat lunch with, and I spent a lot of time trying to impress them and become closer, but they either didn't notice or know that's what I was doing or they already had enough close friends. I managed to make a friend in high school by asking someone who was shy to spend time with me, and that's worked ever since. And I still try to refine my presentation/approach when I find out that I don't seem very friendly to someone when I feel friendly.

I don't put as much time into it now as I used to, but the trade-off is that I'm less aggressive and less likely to throw a tantrum. I don't regret that, because in my experience overexposure to other people is inversely correlated to maintaining positive relationships.

That's your comparison? Pouring a glass of juice?? It's like comparing writing your name to writing software. Although if you really liked yourself mabey you would be confident in your ability to not spill and increase your odds of success??

I didn't realize this until just a few weeks ago: when I was a young child I really didn't care about other children or making friends. I was too busy exploring everything around me. I didn't intentionally make a decision to not be sociable, I just wasn't interested in being sociable. Of course, over time, that led to a lot of problems for myself because I didn't develop the best social skills. By the time I was in the seventh grade, and particularly because I found social interaction with other kids to be difficult and mystifying, I told myself that I didn't need friends. At the end of the 9th grade I realized that I really did need friends, and I worked very hard (through observing and emulating the behavior of others) to have friends. By the time I was a senior in high school I DID have a group of friends. Now, at 43, I may have some difficulty retaining friends over a long period of time, but that is not so different from most people. What is different is that I tend to isolate myself from others because social interaction takes a lot out of me.

So, yes, at some points in my life I have made conscious decisions to try to have friends or to not try, but my social difficulty is based in brain mechanisms that have always been there, are still there, and that I did not consciously choose. A lot of others on WP would probably say the same thing.

Z

The OP has a point. its certainly possible to be unaware of your failings(or the reason for them, rather). Then at some point you give up. Once you do that you can regress. Even NTs have to maintain practice in socializing.

This sounds like almost the opposite of my experience. I grew up in my own little world, then at some point (adolescence?) looked up and realized, woah, I'm really far behind in social interaction, I guess I should catch up, have friends and date. And proceeded to spend the rest of my life trying.

I started getting bullied when my social understanding did not keep apace with my age peers (although my intellectual development more than did!); I became withdrawn and isolated as a consequence, not by choice.

The title of the thread implies that the bad decision-making CAUSES AS.