Taken for granted - twisted logic

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Was there a time in your life when you used to think that the fact that some opinions, patterns of behaviour and inclinations were took for granted by everybody else, was a proof that even if you weren't in favour of them, there must be "something" in them, otherwise they wouldn't be that popular? I was angry that I didn't like spending time with people, for example - everybody liked it after all - "am I worse"? My logic was such - people couldn't be THAT illogical - while I didn't see any point in some activities, I should try to derive pleasure from them because it's illogical not to like something that is popular, ergo - that must be more or less valuable (probably less but valuable, after all).

Yes, I used to believe that the majority had to be right.

Fortunately, I don't believe it anymore. It's an illogical thought.

The majority is not always the one who has the logical idea. The majority is just following someone's (a leader's) idea, which is usually very logical for the leader's personal interests, and the rest all buy into it in order to belong to some herd, no matter which.

I was in Jerusalem this weekend, observing the Good Friday processions and rituals. So many different denominations and religions in one tiny place, and each of those herds is convinced they are right and the others are wrong.

Awesome icon, btw.

I know and it's why I have it

There was a time when I thought I must be WIERD for thinking such things when other kids accepted/ignored them, and "adults" believed them. TODAY, I realize that in perhaps 80% of all such cases I am RIGHT! The other 20% are most often due to a hidden benefit.

It is almost like having 15% of your money put in a 401K. It LOOKS like it is lose/lose, but it can shove you into a lower tax bracket and maybe save almost as much as you invest.

I am STILL sometimes SHOCKED by what some "adults" believe.

Yea, I run contrary to majority opinion in a lot of areas. Making my own interpretations of the Bible, rather then blindly accepting the general consensus, will do that.

To quote my namesake,

Yes for 49 years I went around thinking "what is wrong with all these people - can't they see xxxx", after some serous anxiety problems last year, I was diagnosed with AS, so now I know that the 'shoe is on the other foot' - but I still think I an correct more often than 'them' - I am less vocally about it, because as much as I cannot understand then – they cannot understand me!

It's more of a background noise - that would like to take over. It never really did.

What does shock me is how, since early on, I knew that the popularity of an idea was no guarantee of it being "right" - but I knew this because some teacher must have told me or because it was the moral of a children's story; something available to everyone - yet other kids seemed impervious to this and would continue with the mass behaviour.

It happened to me with a lot of others things. When at school they told us "lying was a sin" I'd worry about not lying - ever - but everyone else blatantly seemed to just say "yes" and continue saying whatever it took to get what they wanted. That always shocked me. . . how people could just pretend to agree with something taught and then blatantly do something that would contradict it and not seem to care the slightest. . .
. . .or why the catechism teacher herself would steal my stuff. . .

It seems that often such things are only given the proper lip service so as to feign open-mindedness and tolerance. The purpose of educational systems is to maintain a social equilibrium. For the public schools, it is our system of representative democracy (while the system was being created during the last century, this purpose was rather explicit; they're modeled after assembly-line factories). For private schools, it is to follow whatever their ideological doctrine is. So teachers are taught (they all go through a specific training that they have to pass) to encourage the correct qualities in their students. (we can also see how this would relate back to ASD versus the correct NT way to teach)

Whisperer, I've wondered for years why my siblings knew instinctively as children that it was just lip-service, while I strived all my life to live up to those ideals preached to us. Nowadays I think the difference is that we aspies tend to take words literally.

An example: when I was a waitress at a hotel, they taught us the correct way to serve a table. It was complicated and lots of work (almost like a tea ritual). I was being threatened with being fired because I was too slow. I didn't understand how the other girls could do all that in such short time. It didn't dawn on me till many months later (when the supervisor made a comment about it) that the other girls had instinctively understood that it's impossible to follow all those instructions. They were serving a table almost the usual way, while I was doing everything as I'd been taught I must. That's why they were much quicker than me.

I'm often told at work that I follow instructions too much. However, NTs know instinctively how to break the rules in an accepted way. Were I to break the rules, I'd get caught and punished in no time.

I still find it hard coming to terms with that.
I like honesty a lot. . .

. . .and it sounds like all it comes down to me being lower functioning than I thought I was. . . and naive. . .

I can't come to terms with it well because when stuff happens - stuff that could have been avoided had there been more to certain things than just lip-service - people get mad and even truly suffer. . . often more than I. Then, if I'm odd. . . for having ever thought people actually cared - what does that make of them?

I hate feeling naive. . . This is all very depressing. . .

When I was a child, I used to think that someone adult (so having so much bigger knowledge of the world and generally life than I) must be right when he speaks about something, otherwise it wouldn't be logical - I was defeated by my own weapon, my own logic killed me here . But I can forgive myself this mistake, I was only a child. I was able to notice more and more things the older and wiser I was getting. It was Lem I think, who told once that before he got the Internet access he didn't realize how much stupidity is in the world. I see it lurking forums and now I know what he meant. And blissful ignorance so many people are characterized by is cheerfully spread to the next generations - for example today I read that only one in 12 children will not have the same religious beliefs what parents - people simply lack ability to ponder things on their own and prefer following the same path to thinking.

Herding is believing topic

It is an NT trait to be like to be part of the group-even at the expense of their own logic and common sense. This is the trait exploited by certain religions, cults, terrorist groups, and extreme politics like nazism and communism, and even big corporations. It is called toeing the party line. Find a common enemy, so we are not like that. We are beete than they are. Sports teams(safer than terrorism, I suppose.)This is the big reason why I hate groups and 'group think.' But it is a safe and survivor-ish way to live for NTs.. Sometimes it can even be a life saver--but my principles will not be compromised.

There would have to be a really really compelling reason for me to go along with a group. Until then, forget it.

.fdf

People will do anything to belong. Just anything. They'll betray their own principles and morals, they'll sacrifice innocent humans (and children, extremely often), they'll commit cruel acts against anyone.

This is why I despise it so much when a couple that's stayed together for many decades are given as an example of something worthy and good. Because I know very well the kind of pacts with the devil that many, many people make in order to stay married. And I know these cases from very close to me. People who've framed their closest friends to appear guilty of crime, people who've abandoned their sick and poor parents at a spouse's ultimatum, people who've put up during decades with their spouse having another romantic partner and a second home with kids of their own with the mistress, people who've stayed with a professional torturer husband, people who stay with a spouse they know has a double life (such as very religious but doing the opposite when alone on a trip abroad).....and mind you, I'm only naming a few of my closest relatives' cases here. Yes, they belong. But at prices that I'd rather die than pay.