Aspies being able to understand their actions?

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I was on AFF reading a post about an aspie getting charged as an adult with a federal crime by burning tree stumps but at the time he did it, he didn't even know it was wrong so the mother felt he should get off because of his AS and bam the drama started in it when someone said it was BS and he did know it was wrong and to stop using AS as a crutch. Very few others agreed with that person by saying we are able to understand our actions but wait a minute. As a kid, I didn't understand my actions. I do things and wouldn't even know it was wrong or that I get in trouble for it etc. Every time my mother get mad about what I did, I'd blame it on my brothers thinking it keep me out of trouble but she always knew it was me unfortunitly so I kept lying. But it never left me in panic about playing because I was so afraid I'd do something wrong but luckily I still kept having fun and never worried about doing something wrong again. If this really isn't an AS issue, then what could this problem be part of?


Luckily I have gotten a lot better at it and now know right from wrong but sometimes I still won't know something is wrong to do like I did not know it was wrong to burn tree stumps until I read the thread. That's why I was upset by the thread because of that one poster saying it was BS and he knew it was wrong blah blah and aspies know right from wrong.

I generally don't like AS to be an excuse for committing crimes, but in that case it seems like the law in question wasn't very well-publicized. For that reason, I think it's entirely fair to let anyone in that situation off relatively lightly, assuming that there weren't signs plastered all over the area saying not to burn down tree stumps. Although I still don't feel much sympathy for adults of any neurological makeup who still think playing with fire is a great idea.

First off, burning a tree stump is a federal crime? I did not know that.
Second I don't like using my AS for anything, and sometimes I should. It's probally the only time I truely would understand empathy for some one. But even that it is basically how I'd feel on the opposite side.
And incase you didn't get the full picture, AS can be a problem and sometimes is justified as an excuse.

Well, I've already said that I think the penalty should be quite light for this case, because not many people know that it's a law, aspie or not. I just don't like seeing AS used as an excuse for violent crime, and people playing with fire bugs me. You don't need to understand social rules to get that it can be dangerous. Like I said, though, most people don't know all of the statutes, so letting this guy off lightly seems fair.

Write on the board, 1000 times, Aspies are not dangerous! Most of them know what they're doing. Not understanding is not usually not understanding right from wrong. It's trying to figure out the difference between someone saying "If you steal my boyfriend, I'll kill you," and jumping out from behind a tree with a knife saying "I'll kill you." And that has nothing to do with not knowing right from wrong.

There is no reliable documented evidence that anyone with an Autistic spectrum disorder is dangerous (except maybe to themselves when they get so low that they want to give up), and it sounds like a sharp lawyer is trying to make some capital out of AS.

And someone else here said "burning a tree stump is not a federal crime." No, but starting a forest fire is.

Btdt

You'll find the, lacking in a theory of mind can lead to problems with the law, i.e., an individual with AS is walking down the city street with his favorite rifle slung over his shoulder, his obsession. He sees that he's doing nothing wrong, and he'd never hurt a fly let alone a human; he expects everyone else to understand this for he lacks the ability to see from the other's perspective.

The common story of the boy with AS who "stole" a train because he was obsessed over such and he wanted to drive it; he saw that he did nothing wrong, and he didn't even think that he might hurt someone for he expected everyone to see it how he did.

This is why "normal" people with an ASD get into trouble without meaning to; this doesn't say there's not killers out there who have an ASD (Bryant had AS, and Cho had autism for example).

I was told by a very well known autistic advocate when I was eating at a banquit "like a pig" Her words... See if you can guess who she was...she's well known for her live stock handling abilities.
"Autism is no excuse for bad manners." or was it "bad behavoir?" Either way it isn't an excuse to get off Scott free, but if the person legitimately didn't know, then they have to learn, so they know next time.

Lesson learned: I can't separate the yucky goopy fat from the lean part of my meat when out in public... I guess that means having to use a knife or just put up with it for that one meal...
And eating broccoli envisioning I am a dinosaur from Land Before Time may be fine and dandy at home, but since I was not a young kid anymore...that's got to stop. After all broccoli trunks aren't that bad to eat and forks can be used.


Yes I have gotten yelled at by various people in my life for something or another. Sometimes I knew why and sometimes I didn't. Sometimes I had an idea but thought my reasons were justified.

For example:

Removing grubs out of someone's apple tree. I thought I was helping the tree by removing the grubs that were boring into it.

The man owning the tree yelled at me, "Stop pulling bark off the tree!" In his mind he was after me because he thought I was trying to kill his tree.

In my mind I was trying to save the tree. I got really angry with the owner and decided to never speak to him ever again (except for maybe one or two occasions) . I'd run when he came out. I just couldn't get it why he couldn't understand my perspective.

Perhaps I could have tried to let him know his tree has a problem, but that's "water under the bridge"... Being only a child he probably wouldn't have believed me anyway.

Wow, has anyone ever told her that upper-class 1950s table manners are not the only valid kind in the world?

I had a similar problem when I was at a group home, my parents were told that I ate in some kind of horribly gross manner, but then when they were given examples, they started going "Hang on, that's how we eat too." And they realized he was insulting our entire family.

I mean it's not like they taught me no table manners, we just didn't have them in the same level of detail as some other people. (Although I actually observed stricter versions of some parts than the rest of my family, because I hate the sound of eating.) What is and is not good table manners is very relative, there's not one single perfect way.

I was at least taught as a child that telling someone they eat like a pig is bad manners, and making such an example in front of a whole bunch of people is even worse.

I think children with AS can learn right from wrong just like everybody else, but I think that in some cases the child may not care to learn.

I think that we learn differently, often we do not learn by example, we have to be told what not to do. The more subtle things we do not learn easily and I can remember being told off in school for putting my elbows on the table. My teacher was very cross and asked me if I could see other children putting their elbows on the table, she then said that I could only put mine on the table when she put hers on the table. I watched and watched for when I could do that, but I never ever saw her do it. I realize now that she meant that I would never see her do it and that it would never be something I was allowed to do.

it doesn't matter if he knew it was wrong or not. You get punished regardless.

Not knowing you're doing something wrong socially can come from AS, but not knowing you're doing something physically dangerous mostly comes from not being old enough to know better. We live and learn.

Spaghetti:
A friend of mine showed me how to get 4-5 strands of spaghetti in my fork and twirl the fork until the strands were completely wrapped in a ball on the fork. Then dip the twirled pasta in the sauce and enjoy. If the spaghetti ball gets too big, start over with fewer strands.

well if you read a post i wrote recently and the roasting I got from my fellow WP members you will see most on this site beleive that Aspies understand right from wrong and consequences.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt63466.html