Is this a sort of anti-Aspie discrimination?

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Willard
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30 Apr 2008, 11:32 am

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The top trait employers want can't be found on your resume or even in a typical one-hour job interview. What they want to know is this: Do you play well with others? From entry level mailroom clerk to the top boss in the corner office, almost all employers are looking for someone personable. They've learned the hard way that difficult, obstinate and fractious employees cost them big bucks in time and productivity. Workplace bullies need not apply!

Half of all job applicants lie about THIS--and employers are catching on.

The Associated Press reports that even with a labor shortage in many sectors, employers are still being picky about whom they hire, stepping up efforts to weed out people who may have the right qualifications on paper but have the wrong personality. Since the only way to find out if you can be a team player who gets along with others is for employers to get to know you, be prepared to endure lots of long interviews. Some companies, such as Whole Foods Market, hold group interviews where employees who work for the hiring manager also grill the candidate and actively participate in who gets hired--and who doesn't.

Call it the likeability factor. For example, even though Rackspace Managed Hosting, a 1,900-employee computer server hosting company in San Antonio, Texas, is actively seeking new hires, they're still being super picky about whom they employ. Rackspace CEO Lanham Napier told AP, "We'd rather miss a good one than hire a bad one." The company is divided into teams of 18 to 20 people, and many of the team members have become close personal friends outside of work. Napier says their interview technique is to drill down past fake pleasantness. "They're here for nine or 10 hours," Napier explained to AP. "We're very cordial about it. We're not aggressive, but we haven't met a human being yet who has the stamina to BS us all day."

Kris Thompson, vice president of human resources at Lindblad Expeditions, a 500-employee adventure cruise company, summed it up nicely by telling AP, "You can teach people any technical skill, but you can't teach them how to be a kindhearted, generous-minded person with an open spirit."


...or how to be a mindless syncophantic automaton who jumps when you snap your fingers, laughs at all your jokes, kisses your ring when you enter the room, and maintains respectful eye contact except when you growl at them.

Isn't this the best reson for being Dx'ed? If your lack of social skills is officially classified as a diasability, these types would be legally prohibited from using that as a criteria for NOT hiring you. It would ipso facto become discrimination.



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30 Apr 2008, 11:43 am

Except they can still use any other reason they want to not hire you as an excuse as long as they don't explicitly say it's for the real reason. Besides, in the U.S. I'm not sure if it's even a recognised disability. I really don't think telling potential employers would help get you the job, unless you find some job placement program to help you out. I'm not sure how to go about doing that either, or if it even exists for aspies.



Willard
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30 Apr 2008, 11:53 am

Pithlet wrote:
Except they can still use any other reason they want to not hire you as an excuse as long as they don't explicitly say it's for the real reason.


They just DID say that was the reason, that's what the entire article was about. They're advertising that they discriminate against anyone with weak social skills. The man said they put people through a grueling nine hour process specifically to weed people out for that.

Pithlet wrote:
Besides, in the U.S. I'm not sure if it's even a recognised disability.


recognised as a disability. Not generally as qualifying for housing or income subsidies.

I really don't think telling potential employers would help get you the job, unless you find some job placement program to help you out. I'm not sure how to go about doing that either, or if it even exists for aspies.[/quote]

"Natural Learning Concepts has launched a job service for people with Autism/Asperger's. There is no charge for this service which is very much needed and welcomed by the community. It's an opportunity for people on the autism spectrum to be employed by companies who will support them in using their natural talents, skills and abilities."



velodog
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30 Apr 2008, 12:04 pm

It doesn't sound Aspie specific. Any bunch of jerks wants me to hang around all day better pay me and supply lunch.



Anemone
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30 Apr 2008, 12:35 pm

It's perfectly appropriate to weed out potential employees who are antisocial bullies. But it's not appropriate if it inadvertently also weeds out autistic people who are actually easy to get along with if the work environment is structured enough.

The situation where you'd have the strongest legal case if it's in an area where autistic traits are possibly an advantage, but they still weed you out on the basis of social stuff. I had that happen to me at a high tech company, but didn't know about legal rights back then. If a job is technical, and you get to work with people who don't care if you're generally unsocial, so long as you're not antisocial, you can insist on some sort of aptitude test if you think the interviewer is unduly biased (especially if the intereviewer is someone you'll probably never interact with on the job). When I hired on as a file clerk with the government, they had a series of aptitude tests that they used for hiring. After that there was a brief interview, during which I checked out my potential immediate supervisor, and he checked me out, and I was in. Having the aptitude test come first makes a big difference.



aspiebeauty87
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30 Apr 2008, 1:33 pm

yes, i think the workplace & the world is decrimative towards aspies cuz they don't understand or care to understand so as an aspie it's really hard for me to find a job if i don't work well with people which sucks. To me what people don't understand they make fun of or shun away


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30 Apr 2008, 3:32 pm

If it's a job that requires a lot of cooperation between coworkers in order to design products/complete projects etc., and you do not work well with others (ex. cannot cooperate/compromise), then it is not discrimination to avoid hiring you. They cannot legally ask about your disability, but they can ask about your ability to fulfill job requirements. If you cannot, then they are not discriminating against you if they don't hire you. Now, it is a different matter if "reasonable" accommodations (yes, that is the language used- and reasonable can be hard to define) can be made which would compensate for your disability. But in answer to your question, employers are not discriminating against you if you are eliminated due to your inability to fulfill the requirements of the job. After all, having a disability doesn't give you a free pass to ignore key aspects of job requirements.



t0
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30 Apr 2008, 4:06 pm

I don't really see anything in the article that's anti-aspie. I see:

Quote:
They've learned the hard way that difficult, obstinate and fractious employees cost them big bucks in time and productivity. Workplace bullies need not apply!


and

Quote:
"You can teach people any technical skill, but you can't teach them how to be a kindhearted, generous-minded person with an open spirit."



I could see interpreting this one as being "anti-shy":

Quote:
Napier says their interview technique is to drill down past fake pleasantness. "They're here for nine or 10 hours," Napier explained to AP. "We're very cordial about it. We're not aggressive, but we haven't met a human being yet who has the stamina to BS us all day."


I'm not sure what they mean by "drill down past fake pleasantness". I went through a 9-10 hour interview process at Microsoft but 50% or more of the time was spent at a whiteboard writing code. The other half was one on one conversation. If I was in an interview situation where I was getting uncomfortable due to all the "pleasant conversation", I'd probably list it among my weaknesses and ask to take a short break.

My impression of the article is that businesses don't want their managers playing "office police." They'd rather have employees that play nice so their managers (and other employees) can spent their time doing real work.



EvilKimEvil
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30 Apr 2008, 4:49 pm

I think that people with disabilities are only protected from discrimination if the disability does not prevent them from doing the job. An employer could easily say that the job they are offering requires people skills that aspies do not possess and that there is no "reasonable accommodation" that can change this.

This is why I prefer to simply try to get along with people at work and only mention AS if it becomes necessary - after they have had some time to get to know me and see my strengths. I think that if I mentioned AS right away, they'd just think, "No people skills = no job," and proceed to overlook all the people skills and other skills that I do have.



Bozewani
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30 Apr 2008, 5:14 pm

Honestly, I don't see it as anti-aspie but rather a control issue (for a general amount of people).

We are taught from day one, to be under the control of someone else. This is why I hate high school, I never want to control and groupthink people, it drives me up the wall.

It's the mass indoctrination campaign, put people into chunks, order them around like slaves, and feed them on all pertinent information to your intentions.



DanteRF
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30 Apr 2008, 5:50 pm

No. I'd have no trouble since fake pleasentry's we practice more then NT's and we should be able to pull it off a lot longer. I go through an entire day of it. We have determination to seem normal, I wouldn't be surprised if one of us let it down, just because most people can't keep it up.



tailfins1959
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30 Apr 2008, 6:39 pm

DanteRF wrote:
No. I'd have no trouble since fake pleasentry's we practice more then NT's and we should be able to pull it off a lot longer. I go through an entire day of it. We have determination to seem normal, I wouldn't be surprised if one of us let it down, just because most people can't keep it up.


Being Aspie doesn't mean you can't be sociable. If you give kind of a dumb smile and say something on the order of "I'm really sharp on implementing IT solutions, but I'm a little slow keeping up with conversations because I have a mild form of Autism". Coming across as a bit of a "Gomer Pyle" isn't deadly if you can also come across as honest and as a nice person.


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DanteRF
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30 Apr 2008, 7:00 pm

I'm pleasant but I don't always able to show it. I practice smiling and keeping it up. Openning presents for example, I liked the stuff never smiled or showed excitement. This thing is to stop a**holes you don't get along with people. Most Aspies I think are able to get along they just don't spend time with groups.

And I keep forgetting that a lot of you have mild AS and are relatively social. My post was about those that have a big problem with sociablity.