Difference in Terms.

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I figure I might as well draw attention to something that causes me some curiosity.... and it might be a result in my difference of outlook regarding the neurotypicals compared to many others here...

But I've noticed people using the term "Aspies" a lot, as well as referring to the Neurotypicals as "NTs" ...

I mean this is somewhat at odds with my tendency to refer to myself specifically as "Aspergian" (or occasionally "Demi-Aut") ... and to refer to them as "Mundies" ...

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I mean, am I the only one who is subconsciously perceiving the addition of "ies" on the end of a shortened form as somewhat belittling? Yes, I fully intend to be derogatory in referring to neurotypicals as Mundies... i.e. "The Mundane People". I would never refer to myself as an "Aspie" as it seems like the sort of thing a presenter of a Pre-School program for little brats would say.
And I don't like the abbreviated forms either. I have somewhat of a problem with abbreviations, in that they mean nothing to me unless someone explains them, and even then I don't like the sound of them.

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I mean... what brought on the common use of these terms in the Aspergian community, that I am now subconsciously at odds with? Just seeing some of the terms being used... it just seems so forcedly happyshiny that it makes me cringe.

What gives?

I've used the term Aspie. I don't find it belittling. I do understand where you are coming from, but I think it's a perception you hold of the "ie" ending and its use as a diminutive.

However, I do find the term "Mundy" distasteful. I have an Aspie son and a NT son. My partner is NT. To me "mundies" smacks of derogatory terminology. And you have admitted it yourself.

If we seek legitimization and recognition and respectability, we aren't going to manage that by calling NT's names.

Aspie seems to have followed from the shortening of Autistic to Autie, which seems less harsh. However, if it bothers you, then do not use it to describe yourself. I respect that completely. But then...be careful what you call NT's.

You might be seeking legimitization, recognition and respectability in the eyes of the mundies.... but I'm certainly not. I don't need their permission nor their approval to determine my own self-worth.... and neither do I need, want, nor value their respect as a whole.
Neurotypical society in general looks down on us, and thus it is only right that I look down on them in return. We won't get the beast's attention by squeaking at it pitifully... asking with all sorts of purposeful niceties to be seen as equals. The mundie beast recognises no such thing, and would as easily step on us.
Only with a show of strength and a demonstration of our righteous defiance of their oppressive ways will we even be able to get them to look at us on equal terms.

And why even stop there?
The irony is that we ARE academically superior.
We are the inventors, the scientists and the programmers.
We are the better part of human society.
We have every right to look down on the neurotypicals, to whom genius is a rare commodity.

How can we be the better part of human society if we're a minority?

I hear what you are saying. I'm not only on the spectrum, I'm also gay.

The fight of the gay community for recognition and respect has been well documented. I'm aware of what it takes to fight for it all. But I still don't see the need to make derogatory remarks.

Belittling the majority is simply petty and childish. It doesn't make NT's any more likely to be accepting if there is animosity and hostility towards them (or for that matter condescension either).

Besides, I have my oddities that my NT partner must tolerate. I have habits and quirks that are different. She tolerates me, (actually finds some of it endearing) and I accept the fact that she doesn't think like I do. I do have a genius IQ, and I'm faster at processing some things. I can puzzle out problems and make leaps of logic that she can't come close to. I don't patronize her, or condescend, because at some things she's vastly superior to me.

Not all NT's have problems accepting us. That's a vast generalization, and we know those don't work on the whole. That's like saying all jews are greedy (I'm jewish). It doesn't bear out.

However, be that as it may, you have your right to speak as you will. I am happy the way I am. I accept that others have the right to be the way they are...even if they don't understand me.

I just find the term "Aspie" is as silly-sounding as Asperger's. But AS works for me.

I like the term Mundies because NTs reminds me too much of deprecated Windozes

The same way that Diamonds are the harder type of gemstones?

Being a minority does not in any way detract from ability. Heck, they're not even related!

I think that what gives is your bitterness. You appear to have harbored and nurtured every offense and ill feeling toward anyone not like you. When people are in this state of mind, every silly little thing feels like cause for war.



I notice you keep saying this. Have you actually taken a serious, far reaching, objective poll on this? Have you researched it? I have read so many posts on here from ASPIES who say they reek academically. I have extreme difficulty believing this is true overall as compared to NTs plus every other non-autistic (you only claim this for those with AS) overall.

And what if that's not true? What of those on the spectrum who're not at all like that? What are they to you?

Believe it or not, there are many NT's who are extremely intelligent, logical and even genius. I am a scientist. During school/university I was always top of the class, but now that I am a postdoc I am surrounded constantly by very intelligent people (in fact I have got so used to it, and know so few non-scientists that my view of the average is rather skewed). These people are NTs for the most part. These people are brilliant academically, but most of them are also brilliant (or at least good) socially. To be a successful scientist (ie have your own lab) you also need to be able to 'play' the politics game. I can't do this. I also think slowly - I have very good ideas, but I need to be alone and have time to think about them, I can't just come up with something in the middle of a conversation because all my effort is taken up with navigating the conversation. But these NT's I work with can do this. And for the first time in my life, I am finding that I lag behind them. My processing speed is too slow. Their interests are equal to mine (in some cases even more obsessive - most scientists work ridiculous hours).

Maybe SotiCoto, you are in the wrong profession. You are not surrounded by equally intelligent people as yourself. But they do exist, these brilliant NTs, and I feel inferior to them because of my social difficulties. The word 'mundie' suggests dull and boring, but many of the people that I work with are far from being dull and boring. To look down on NTs seems to me to be a defense mechanism for you - you need to believe that you are superior to them, because you feel persecuted by them perhaps? It is somehow unfair that someone can be both brilliantly intelligent and have a social, magnetic personality, but it happens rather more often than you might imagine. There are plenty of NTs who can concentrate on one subject, plenty who can construct novel solutions to complicated problems, but most of these also have no problem in successfully creating relationships and contacts which lead them to greater success than one can obtain through intellect alone. No it isnt fair, but I am not sure that considering yourself superior to these people is really going to help you in the long run.

Thank you! (((merrymadscientist))) (I hope you don't mind virtual hugs.)

Last edited by deadpanhead on 31 May 2008, 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Who's we?

As an AS inventor/programmer and member of human society, I find this sentiment disgusting.

Sort-of back to the original question:

I don't like "Aspies", partly because the "sp" sound really gets on my nerves, partly because it's too cute. I thought about cute short forms for about a day when I was diagnosed, then lost interest. I don't like Auties either though the sound doesn't grate, also because it's too cute for me. I prefer "autistic" (small "a") as a general term.

The term NT really bothers me. Really. A lot. To me it sounds racist, if you know what I mean. There is so much diversity in the human population that lumping all non-autistic people together is to me a joke - it's like saying all men are alike, or all women, or whatever. It gives me the creeps. Perhaps that is not what is intended, but that is what I hear. I prefer the wordier "people who aren't autistic", since it sounds more value-neutral, plus it's more specific.

If people want to call themselves "aspies" that's their business. I don't care. I figure it's probably a fad. But it's not a term outsiders should be using, since not all of us like it.

As far as inferiority/superiority goes, I figure that it's not what you've got that counts, it's what you do with it. (But I know I'm not judged that way myself, since people can't see my disabilities. )

I think Windows is a pretty good way to describe NT's, actually... does that make those on the spectrum Amigas?


M.

Personally, i think it would only hurt me to be so concerned on what uber specific word anyone uses to attempt to communicate to or about me. Honestly, we have to have some common terminology or no one will understand or be understood. I use the term myself because most others do and it gives me a commonly understood and concise way to convey my meaning. I have enough communication problems without inviting a new one because i'm persnickety about how one word sounds. My guess is that "Aspie" and "Autie" became the titles because the vast majority being described were (and probably still are) children. Whether we like it or not, our state also gives us certain appearances of childlikeness. I don't see that as a bad thing as "grown ups" perpetrate the world's atrocities.

On the other hand, if the term is spoken to you, and often, i can understand not liking it applied to yourself personally, especially if you are male. Why not just offer a preferred term to those who use it this way?

Maybe, eventually, there will be new terms specifically for adults with AS that are not cutesy (but then i fear whatever term is used will sound like a disease). Until then i don't care to add one more stress for myself by worrying about it. I'll just be an Aspie for now.