Do you feel empathy?

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I'd just like to see how people respond to this, because I really think that the whole "lack of empathy" thing is a myth. I've lurked around on a few forums, I exchanged e-mails with another aspie for a little while, I've talked to someone who has a son that most likely has Asperger's, and it seems to me that most Asperger's people do in fact feel empathy, sometimes intensely. There are certainly some that don't, but I doubt the percentage is higher among aspies than NTs. I think this myth came about because we APPEAR to lack empathy or we would like to express empathy, but don't know how. I often find myself in situations where I feel empathy, but don't know how to show it, so I just don't say anything, or I say the wrong thing and sound like a jerk. For the purposes of this poll, let's just define empathy as at least wanting to relate to others even if you are unable to. I really wish they'd drop this from the diagnostic criteria, since it seems to imply that we're uncaring or incapable of being caring, which I'm sure is not true in the vast majority of cases.

I totally agree!! I think we experience the feeling of empathy quite strongly but just don't quite know how to handle those kinds of emotions. Also it can be difficult if it's a situation we can't relate to b/c we have never experienced anything like it. But I think most of us do want to be able to relate, which fits under your definition of empathy. I know I experience it pretty strongly at times myself. The times I experience it the most intensely are when someone is in pain or when someone is being degraded/humiliated. When someone is in pain-physical or emotional-I almost can't stand it, it affects me so strongly, and I'm not trying to make myself sound like some kind of saint here but I immediately want it to be alleviated or stopped and will try to help if I can. Sometimes, when people would bump into something or get hit with something I'd actually yell out like it was me it happened to. When someone is being degraded-being made fun of, picked on, or talked about behind their back-I take it very personally. I have this teacher's assistant in one of my discussion sections at college who came to the U.S not to long ago and doesn't speak English well yet or know our teaching methods well and the other students sometimes snicker or complain or sleep right in front of her or ask really stupid questions. It's pure torture being in that room just for me so it must be even worse for her. I read something about a man with AS who couldn't stand to disappoint his family from early on in childhood and I was and am exactly the same way. When I imagined my mom and dad being disappointed or hurt by something I did or said and it would just kill me. So I agree with you and think that we not only experience empathy but probably to a greater degree than some NT's. We are almost the polar opposite of the cold emotionless beings we are sometimes portrayed as. Just b/c we don't know how to express these feelings doesn't mean we don't have them!!

I find that I either feel overwhelming empathy for a person or I see their situation logically - it is physically painful, for example, for me to be in the room with someone who is suffering - espcially if they are someone I care about, but just in general - it is almost like I can feel what they are feeling . . . but if I am removed from the situation I am able to pretty much be completely objective . . .

I think that this is where the confusion about empathy comes in - people do not see empathy in someone who can say 'ok - here is what you need to do . . .' when the reason they are providing this solution is because they feel badly for the person who can't figure out the solution themselves . . .

Empathy is defined by feeling another person's feelings, correct?

If that is the case, I do not feel empathy. At most, I feel sympathy. I can understand the way a person feels, intellectually. I'm not a completely uncaring being. It's just that rather than feeling someone's sadness, I will feel pity, instead.

Because of my lack of empathy, however, there are times when I can be callous toward other people. For example, rather than feeling pity, I might feel annoyance.

My emotions are not usually very strong to begin with, and I often have a difficult time recognizing them, so I imagine that has something to do with it. Also, like you all have described, I don't always know how to express sympathy to someone. Like animallover, I try to find practical solutions to people, rather than helping them wallow in their misery.

Last year I felt extremely deep love and empathy for the girl I liked back then. I was practically aware of her mood even before I saw her. However, this year we've more than drifted apart, unfortunately.

I remember one time reading a newspaper article about a foster child who died in a "rebirthing" process because she was smothered by pillows. I felt extreme empathy in that situation because it was so pointless: Her foster parents were supposed to protect her, not try some New Ageish thing to try to symbolically start an emotional connection with her only to wind up killing her instead. Who would think making a young child fight through smothering pillows is therapeutic?

Dammit, NTs are confusing things again: SYMPATHY is where you FEEL for someone else, EMPATHY is where you UNDERSTAND someone else.

NTs are not very careful about how they use their words.

sorry to put the cat amongst the pigeons, but i feel the definitions of empathy here, with the exceptions of civet's, are imprecise at best and wrong at worst.

empathy is sharing in what is known as "personal affect", which means that you actually feel how another feels. understanding how they feel is not the same - i can do this intellectually - it's part of my job - and even if i "feel" how they feel, it is to do with how i would feel in the same situation (what midge describes), so it's about me, not them. this is sympathy not empathy. i am extremely good at working out how people feel, but i have the empathy of a housebrick.

check out the Myers-Briggs psychological test for defintions of the four functions (including empathy) of intelligence. check out the EQ test.

shout at me if you wish, but please get the definitions correct.

V

Okay, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "empathy" since different people will take it to mean different things. Here are two definitions I found on dictionary.com:

Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives.

the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for empathy

Now by the first defintion (understanding) most of us probably don't. But by the second definition (being sensitive to) many of us do. The only point I was really trying to make with this, is that I feel like there is this stereotype that we're all rude, uncaring jerks, and that isn't true in most cases.

I can relate to that. I've had teachers who don't speak English very well and people make fun of them. That's just really disrespectful and annoying.

I'm having trouble putting this into a "quote" for some reason, but Lucas said:

Dammit, NTs are confusing things again: SYMPATHY is where you FEEL for someone else, EMPATHY is where you UNDERSTAND someone else.

NTs are not very careful about how they use their words. (end quote)

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or not, but it seems as though it was. I find it a bit offensive. I admit that maybe I have confused the definition a bit, but why would you call me NT? The fact that I haven't been formally diagnosed doesn't make me an NT. A diagnosis is a label - that's it. If you stop calling a chair "Chair", it doesn't make the chair suddenly forfeit the qualities of "chairness". I was neglected, and even abused by the mental health system for years. I once had a psychiatrist tell me that a test she had given me indicated mild autism, but she wouldn't diagnose me with it because she didn't know enough about it. I had a psychologist tell me that I couldn't possibly be autistic because I don't fit the stereotype set by Rainman. How asinine is that? These people are supposed to be professionals? Anyway, I could rant about this all day, but all I'm really saying is: You can disagree with me if you like. But DON'T assume anyone else is NT or AS, or anything for that matter. Reading someone's posts on a forum doesn't really tell you too much about what they're like in real life, and it certainly doesn't tell you a thing about what goes on inside of them. I'm not trying to start a fight here, and I'm really not angry at anyone. I just felt a little hurt by that comment.

Last edited by newt on 10 Nov 2004, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, and before someone calls me on this, I realize that "understanding" is included in the second definition above too. However, I think that if you are sensitive to someone else's feelings, then you do in fact understand them on some level. I don't see how you could be sensitive to something that you have NO understanding of. So now we could debate the definition of the word understanding, but first maybe we need to decide what definition means...

Anyway, as I said before, all I was really trying to do here was make the point that the percentage of aspies who truly are jerks is not significantly higher than the number of NTs who truly are jerks. So maybe that's how I should have stated it in my first post. "Are you a jerk?" instead of "Do you feel empathy?" I was considering empathy to be more like the second definition from above, while some are calling it "understanding and that's it". Of course there's nothing wrong with looking at it either way, but I guess that's exactly my point. Because definitions can become confused, people have this stereotype that aspies are cold and emotionless, when I really suspect that most of us aren't.

Does this make sense?

"understanding" that someone is feeling something becasue of something that happened would apply to me.

But "feeling" what the other person feels, that dosen't apply to me.

Reacting to what someone is feeling, I often don't how to do that.

Scoots, this is exactly what I'm talking about! You understand that someone feels something because of something that happened. So I would say that makes you sensitive to it. I don't necessarily mean "touchy-feely" sensitive, but you at least recognize it. This is empathy in my opinion. As far as "feeling" what other people feel, I doubt that anyone really does. Example: Say that someone you work with has a spouse that dies. You didn't really know the coworker's spouse that well. Are you going to feel as bad as your coworker does? Of course not. You may feel sorry for them, and even get quite upset, but you're not going to spend the next year moping about it, wheras the coworker might. I think the only way that anyone could really feel what anyone else feels is if they are affected by a situation in exactly the same way. Even then, we all have different personalities and different ways of dealing with things, so you probably still don't really feel what someone else feels.

newt, yes i can see what you mean now - thanks for explaining.

the empathy/sympathy definitions given by lucas are the ones i have most problem with, but i don't think lucas was caling you NT - i also am self-diagnosed, and have never been judged less of an aspie here because of that.

perhaps i should have been more specific: the word empathy is a term used (as are many words) in both everyday language and in pychological, technical language, and we need to know the accurate definition of its psychological use here, as this is the one we are discussing when we talk about aspies having less empathy than NTs.

AND, empathy varies between NTs, too. it seems to be another continuum.

V

Well put Vetivert. And your post made me go back and look at Lucas's post again as well as my own response. Maybe I got a little excited. It's just that he said NTs are confusing things and since I started the topic, I figured that meant me. Kind of reminds me of something that happened a few days ago on another forum I frequent (not an aspie one):

Person A made a post referring to something Person B had contributed to the forum, and said that it reminded him of something very negative. Person B got really offended by this and made it very clear. Knowing what I know about Person A, I don't think he meant the comment as an insult, BUT I could definitely see why Person B took it that way.

Geez I ramble on and on when I'm trying to make a point, don't I?

Anyway, I have trouble interpreting people's intentions in real life, let alone on a forum. And honestly, because of the crap I've put up with from people throughout my life, I do tend to get a little defensive if I perceive someone as putting me down. I didn't really mean to make a big deal out of any of this, but being an aspie, I tend to do everything to death! I'll ramble on and on about a topic that's not a big deal to me. And if it is a big deal to me, well, you'll never hear the end of it. Just the way that I am.

I 'understand' other people's feelings, but I don't 'feel' other people's feelings. For example, when I watched movies with my mum when I was younger I used to stare at her while she cried during the sad or sentimental parts. I thought it was fascinating the the movie could make her feel that way, and didn't understand it. I first noticed that the movie was sentimental, then I noticed her crying, never the other way around. So I 'know' what sentiment is I just don't 'feel' it.

One of my friends, who is NT, asked me this question: 'If one of your friends came to you and said their grandfather died and they were crying, would you cry too?' When I told her that I wouldn't she was surprised and said: 'When we (NTs) hear something like that we think about our own grandfather, that is why we cry.' I find it interesting that someone can apply another person's feelings to themselves, because I can't.

Same here, Bec. I offer condolences and make a big show because I can UNDERSTAND what that person feels, but I cannot feel what that person feels. It's just like why I fight against anti-Semitism and homophobia even though I'm neither Gay nor Jewish. All I need is to just know intellectually how they feel.

I usually feel empathy if I think something is unfair or I can relate to it.