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ridgerider
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28 Nov 2005, 1:12 pm

Experts: Introverted youth have deep roots for behavior

By Janie Magruder, Gannett News Service

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... dren_x.htm

The attitude that there's something wrong with introverted people is widely shared in society, where fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning. Extroverts seem to rule the world or, at least, the USA, which hasn't elected an introverted president for three decades, since Jimmy Carter.
"The signals we get from the world agree that extroversion is valued," says Sanford Cohn, an associate professor in curriculum and instruction at Arizona State University. "A lot of the messages we get from society have to do with being social, and in order to be social you have to behave a certain way."

But that is impossible for introverted kids. Raising them isn't easy, particularly if parents, family members, teachers, coaches and other adults don't allow them to be who they are.

Introverted children enjoy the internal world of thoughts, feelings and fantasies, and there's a physiological reason for this. Researchers using brain scans have found introverts have more brain activity in general, and specifically in the frontal lobes. When these areas are activated, introverts are energized by retrieving long-term memories, problem solving, introspection, complex thinking and planning.

Extroverts enjoy the external world of things, people and activities. They have more activity in brain areas involved in processing the sensory information we're bombarded with daily. Because extroverts have less internally generated brain activity, they search for more external stimuli to energize them.

"It's the different pathways that are turned on that activate the behaviors and abilities we see in introverts and extroverts," says Marti Olsen Laney, a neuroscience researcher and author in Portland, Ore., who is credited with connecting introversion with its underlying biology. "It impacts all areas of their lives: how they process information, how they restore their energy, what they enjoy and how they communicate."

Introverted children need time alone more than do extroverted children, says Laney, whose book, The Hidden Gifts of the Introverted Child, is due in January. "Extroverts gain energy by being out and about," but "being with people takes energy from introverts, and they need to get away to restore that energy."

Laney says introverted kids also behave differently.

They're not slow, inattentive or shy. Shyness is behavior that may diminish as children grow; introversion is a character trait that lasts.


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en_una_isla
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28 Nov 2005, 6:56 pm

very interesting, rr, thanks for posting that. :)



midge
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28 Nov 2005, 8:01 pm

Yeah, that is interesting! :) It makes so much sense.



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28 Nov 2005, 8:24 pm

But does the increased Prefrontal Cortical functioning cause the introvert or does the introvert cause the increased Prefrontal cortical functioning???


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28 Nov 2005, 11:46 pm

I say it's mind over matter. If you think you can, you know you can. Introversion and extraversion are just the extremes beyond the means. In other words, if you're introverted, what's wrong with you? Why can't you be extraverted like everyone else but you?



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29 Nov 2005, 12:10 am

Yeah, I totally agree with what he's saying. I've always been an emotionally-intense person but I've never been a real tactile feel-good pleasure-seaker like a lot of people. I think what probably causes the introversion/extroversion is probably a persons wiring and thresholds. Like with sensory overload and having a hard time sorting out a lot of stimulus - it's one of those things that's there with a lot of people and no matter how confident and self-assured you can act it still doesn't make for you being much of an extrovert.

As for extroverts being the measure of most things in our society, well, I think that again comes down to those animal instincts, who could buck who, etc. That point of view seems to simplify things down to "If I can't see it on their outside, what's it worth?"


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ridgerider
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29 Nov 2005, 12:48 am

Sophist wrote:
But does the increased Prefrontal Cortical functioning cause the introvert or does the introvert cause the increased Prefrontal cortical functioning???


Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

Thought - although not all introverts are Aspies, it seems all Aspies are introverts.

Another thought - I think meditation and stuff like that is so extroverts can mechanically come to the same place introverts naturally are. See the following:

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/051111_medidate.html


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danlo
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29 Nov 2005, 1:31 am

I beg to differ, ridgerider. There's introvert autistics and there's extrovert autistics. It's been my experience that AS people are a lot more outgoing than HFA's in general. Introvert/extrovert are personality types. AS people have some similarities with introverts, but they aren't introverts in personality just because they have AS. Different reasons behind the similarities. Another thought for you, with practice, it's possible for introverts to get to the same place extroverts are. And another, I remember a story where an autistic joined a monastary, but found the monks to be just as talkative, just as sociable as NT's. I don't think meditation helps anyone to become introverted, that's just a misconception.[/quote]



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29 Nov 2005, 5:39 am

It depends on your definitions. Is introversion just preferring to be by yourself, or being very good at isolated activities like reading, or is it the inability to interact?

Similary, do extroverts enjoy socialising more than introverted activities, or are they unable to occupy themselves without the company of others?



ridgerider
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29 Nov 2005, 8:52 am

Learned extroversion. I believe that is true and possible. I grew up very introverted but I have an extrovert mask I can put on now. I would observe extroverts and then emulate them, tho never to the point of being really successful about it. I can for example joke around a lot because I know people like humor, but it tends to be dry wit with a little bite in it, so it is often misunderstood.

When I was in my late teens and early twenties I did a lot of traveling. Often, I thought of myself as invisible, as I would travel alone and constantly be in situations where I didn't know anyone and if I didn't initiate an interaction none would occur. I had this sense of moving thru the environment without leaving a ripple.

Some people think I am quite forward, because I can walk up to total strangers and engage them in conversation. In fact, it is almost easier to talk to strangers because there is no committement involved.

Which leads up to my question - you say some autistics are extroverts. Is this natural or learned behavior?

As for the monks - I think he joined the wrong monastery :-) Some, like the Cisterians, have very strict limits on speech and emphasis the interior life.


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29 Nov 2005, 9:24 am

Quote:
Learned extroversion. I believe that is true and possible. I grew up very introverted but I have an extrovert mask I can put on now. I would observe extroverts and then emulate them, tho never to the point of being really successful about it. I can for example joke around a lot because I know people like humor, but it tends to be dry wit with a little bite in it, so it is often misunderstood.


I've had similar experiences. I would try to be more outgoing but found it extremely tiring. It's like acting out someone else's life instead of my own, and I'm not a great actor.

Quote:
When I was in my late teens and early twenties I did a lot of traveling. Often, I thought of myself as invisible, as I would travel alone and constantly be in situations where I didn't know anyone and if I didn't initiate an interaction none would occur. I had this sense of moving thru the environment without leaving a ripple.


I used to feel like I was in a bubble, people knew I was there and I knew they were there, but no interaction took place. What's stranger than being alone in an empty room is being alone in a crowd.

Quote:
Some people think I am quite forward, because I can walk up to total strangers and engage them in conversation. In fact, it is almost easier to talk to strangers because there is no committement involved.


I've done that a few times too. But still, it gets tiring after a while.


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29 Nov 2005, 5:11 pm

Why would anyone want to become more introverted? Introversion is quite limiting. Introversion makes it harder to make friends, get a job, etc.

Whether I'm an introvert or not is hard to say. In some ways, I definitely am: I have few friends. In some ways, I'm definitely not: I'm easily bored and enjoy talking to people.



ridgerider
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29 Nov 2005, 7:43 pm

[quote="NeantHumain"]Why would anyone want to become more introverted? Introversion is quite limiting. Introversion makes it harder to make friends, get a job, etc.

I think it is more about achieving balance than an already overly introverted person becoming more introverted. For someone who is introverted to the point of incapacity, more wouldn't be better. The balance would be to be able to act also in an extroverted way when necessary.

What I was trying to say is that there is also such a thing as being too extroverted. There are advantages to a balanced introversion, as stated in the article that started the thread:

"Introverted children enjoy the internal world of thoughts, feelings and fantasies, and there's a physiological reason for this. Researchers using brain scans have found introverts have more brain activity in general, and specifically in the frontal lobes. When these areas are activated, introverts are energized by retrieving long-term memories, problem solving, introspection, complex thinking and planning. "

IMHO, extroverts tend to be shallower, more easily manipulated, and trend follwers rather than trend setters. They may seem to have more friends, but it is a cosmetic sort of friendship, easily lost.

Of course, maybe I am just rationalizing :-)


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29 Nov 2005, 11:24 pm

Being a good socializer doesn't make one automatically extroverted. As it states, the main point is where you draw your energy from.

Introverts draw the majority of their energy from solitude.

Extroverts usually draw theirs from other people.

And there are also people in between. But I can attest to finding other people draining for me and not refreshing. I need solitude to restock my energies. Not that I don't often enjoy other people. But I still need to recuperate.


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01 Dec 2005, 6:06 am

If extroverts suck energy away from you, would socialising with introverts be less tiring? :wink:



anarkhos
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01 Dec 2005, 2:53 pm

I used to be an extrovert until I discovered what others opinions of me were.

Overnight I became introverted and didn't say a word.

Any correlation between AS and being introverted need not have any direct relation. Its difficult being extroverted when your behavior puts everyone else off.

As for any connection between being introverted and physical activity, I think the same applies. One may lead to another, but that doesn't mean there is a direct psychological connection. I'm a virtual shut-in socially, but do a lot of physical activity.