Start-Up Challenges: Redefining the Spectrum Labels

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please show patience and absorb and reply your own views. Remember this is just the skeleten version and the arguments are shallow.
HERE GOES:

Whenever i am perplexed at the illogical, i begin my search by chasing the money trail. I do not agree that this is a spectrum. Nor are they Pervasive. Notably, there is not a semblence of DISORDER. I view these as a simple means to an end by the large pharmeceutical Co's, who are interrested in expanding their target demographics. Also, a pathetic plea for acceptance from the insecure blowhard clinical psychologists who only wish to be; published, cited, and granted (kept man) with endowments. Which by the way Pill Pushing Co's supply more grant monies than governments do. This is a cooperative effort simply to satisfy a greedy end.

Nothing you have been told is true. Nothing explained is justified. Nobody cares ABOUT you, they only wish to care FOR you. It takes all types of people to help the world to rotate on its axis (not literal). Who gets the right to judge how people should act Socially. Heres the simple rule; if your actions hurt someone else physically then you are anti-social. If you simply hurt someone's feelings, who cares! We all view appropriate social behavior in a different way. Neurotypicals, as well as Aspergers. If your hurtful intentionally then you need to take a gut check and likely you do not have aspergers.

Some people are not so insecure that they require public approval. Some people are happy simply by approving of themselves. If you are happy being alone, then i applaud you for your SELF- confidence. I view those social beings as the ones who have psychological problems in need of help. The fact that they cannot live with themselves is all too telling. Especially in this day and age. There was a time when mankind needed the tribe as a means of protection. But as the years have passed and the world has become more and more specialized and requiring individual skills, the need for the tribe is eroding. Therefore, i view Apergers-type people as an example of the next wave of social behavior. Or more aptly, a step on the evolutionary scale.

Some people learn as children by being told. The question is explained by a role model and it is accepted as the truth by the normal brain thinking child, then they've learned something new. For an Asperger-type child they hear what's said and accept it only for the fact it is believed by another. And then they begin to learn, slowly. The reason for this is that the information is being processed, broken down and examined each piece at a time then reconstructed and solved as a logical whole which is made up of random pieces. And at that point when it all CLICKS, the learning for that subject is expodential there-after. Simply put; the neurotypical child is lazy, and learns the easy way, by acceptance. The Aspergers child learns the hard way, searching themselves for the truth. And making mistakes, many of them but rarely the same one twice. But after much hardship, the Aspergers child has a much firmer grasp of the truth of the particular subject, than the typical acceptance child.

These were two examples of what i refer to is 'START UP' challenges. Instead of high functioning autism, i refer to us as the non clinical term 'CORE-HONESTY.' There are many arguments for this term and its practical meanining. For instance most people act phony in a social context. Aspergers-types cannot do that. Political Correct is a lie. Just think about the phrase and you will understand. It requires same thinking and absolute truths. Who's views are normally viewed as odd? But, who's the TYPE who doesn't accept the truth, for it may be innaccurate. Who works harder for the truth? Who SHOULD BE the purveyors of what is actually correct? Not politicians. But in our backwards-type real actual world this is the case.
REMEMBER, SKELETEN ARGUMENTS, absorb, breakdown, and understand.

Also i refer to many of the challenges that an Apergers-type person faces as;
"Start UP Hurdles in the race of Life."

The word start is used to imply the learning curve and the initial struggles we may have, due to our lust for meaning. As we age, and as we disallow average thinking from dragging us down. Or allowing us to feel as some sort of sub-class by the insistent labels. And the greater barrage of attacks against our 'sensitive' person dragging us down into a mire of depression or 'acting out.'
We should view one label as a tool. Our Sence of Apathy towards Social Norms. How could it be depressing if we disagree. Why should they hold power over our emotion and mental state, when they teach us with mere words. WHO GIVES A GOOD DAMN WHAT THE HELL THESE LAZY, INSECURE, LIARS VIEW US TO BE! They are Passe, holding onto old world socialization.

Cheer up and take some pride for you are not disordered, nor are you ret*d. (please define that term, and apply it accordingly). There is a greater than average chance that you are better than the normal folk. I personally think it absolute, and further fell that the more severe the autism the wiser the soul. Take a good look around you and notice whats normal. The severely autistic is generally noted to not even recognize another human's existence. Or are they living in a safer place than reality.

In temporary conclusion, As my argument expands, i argue that the truth is our ONLY disability and all the other spectrum effects are simply adaptive behaviors. Even normal people build walls (superficial at best) when we build it is with purpose. ALL these for another time.

Homework for the creative of mind:
CORE-HONESTY is appropriate, i believe, but not as encompassing as i'd like. Any of the clinical terms are simple Subjugating labels. Would any-one care to dream a factual labelling term for our little advantage.

Thanks for the patience,
RCT

Good post. That's exactly what I myself needed to hear right now. Of course, I'll have to analyse it and break it down to the constituent logical arguments and verify those before I decide on the truth of it!

There certainly appears to be a ring of truth to pharmaceutical companies vested interest in ensuring there are disorders to be treated and the treatment will always involve expensive medication!

As to the internalised personality becoming the next evolutionary stage? That is very much debatable. Even in today's technology driven world, NT types thrive whilst many with AS struggle like mad. Does that not suggest that the world still favours socially-dependent types who can live with half-truths and outright lies in order to keep each other happy and get on in life?

The issue, i believe, is confidence, or lack thereof.
The reason that people with the truth struggle so mightily is because the numbers are against them. And the vast majority of people in the world don't want to hear it because it would prove to them their meaningless existence and cause them to feel ill at ease. Thus the lack of confidence for AS people. You are made to feel inferior since confidence is a driving force with a momentum that's hard to stop. What if...
...we all believed that we were different for a specific reason. What if...
...we used our special talents, singular focus and driving force to envoke change.
It would disrupt all that mankind has spent milliniums to create. Think about which social class has been the driving force behind all we currently know. The safe comfortable lie is holding back humanity and forwarding the interrests if the powerful elite.
Can i personally complain? I have a job which you cannot even begin to imagine. With high pay, full benefits (100% med. and dental of my choice) $1 prescriptions, 401K, a very nice pension benefit plan, nepotism, the works. And best of all FREEDOM.. i work when i want i work where i want, and i get to choose from over 100 jobs at 20 different companies. also the best of all is my fortune in finding a wife who not only tolerates me, she also finds my quirks amusing. and two beautiful daughters, one of which is extra special, like her dad. i blame this and all of my life on confidence and a surplus of it.
and yes i can complain. i cannot stand the inequalities in class. i cannot tolerate jugemental attitudes. And in particular, i refuse to let normal acting people label my daughter in a negative way. To destroy her confidence about herself and force her to view her gift as an albatross which she MUST bear. No the lies i cannot condone.
Most people like the comfort that the world offers and the sense of belonging. I personally view that as a crutch.
I.m not saying that human interaction is a bad thing because its not. We interact as a means of better understanding ourselves. no one person can know everything that there is to possibly know. We need that marketplace of ideas to flourish as a species, the give and take of it all. We just need it today at a much lesser degree than we used to. Also, people need poeple for meaning and purpose. The level that is required to function in normal society is unhealthy, i believe. That deep of a reliance on another shows a complete lack of confidence in self.

Relabeling is a long term goal of mine. I have been working on it since before I was diagnosed, and moreso since I have been told that there are "cures."

What those of us who come to this site have is clusters or characteristics within families of traits, and I believe those traits are shared by all humans. I am working on the idea that people can be identified by the strengths of various trait families.

This is not a new idea. There are several personality identifiers (examples include the Myers Briggs and the MMPI) and career guides (ex: The Strong Interest Inventory) based on this idea.

Here is an example of what I am working on:

Empathy can be broken down into several parts based on popular definitions. The parts are identification, comprehension, and communication (for want of a better word). Identification of the other person's emotion can be accomplished cognitively (tears = sadness) or emotionally through projection (if I were crying it would be because I am sad, therefore that person must be sad). Confirmation is accomplished either with data (asking or calculating odds or pattern recognition = most people would cry if their parent died) or projection (emotional identification with the person = that person's mother died, I would be sad if that happened and I would cry). The last part is communicating to the other person that one understands how they feel. Logical: you must be sad. Emotional: Oh, I know justhow you feel, I would feel that way too and I am sad that you are sad.

I included communication because empathy is only effective if known. So the summary would look like this:
Empathy(EM) = Identification (through emotional projection (EP) or Identification through data analysis (D) + Confirmation (Cr)+ Communication (Co).

EM = EI + ECp + ECo
OR
EM = DI + DCp + DCo

The next step is to consider each of these elements as anchors on a continuum.
EI -------------- DI
ECr ------------- DCr
ECo ------------- DCo

Finally consider that not everyone has every characteristic in the same degree. SO you could have someone identified as NT (neurotypical) who for whatever reason talks like Data from star trek while they get all their information from emotionally projecting onto the other person how they would feel in the situation. That would look like this:

EM = EI + ECr + DCo
making them not very popular.

Or you could have a sociopath who cares nothing at all for others:
EM = DI + DCr + ECo
Where the emotional display is just a tool to manipulate others.

This is what people thik about Aspergers
EM = DI + DCr + DCo

The reality is that most people with Aspergers, given a situation into which they can project themselves, often look like this:
EM = DI/EI + DCr/ECr + DCo/ECo
and that is to say that we don't come in extremes, that there may be more or less data analysis vs emotion. Finally, NTs come in these flavors too. They, however, are more likely to be more dependent on emotions as a source of information.

Obviously this is a work in progress. But I am working on such formulas for all of the characteristics that people give us a hard time about.

Last example: hand flapping. Continuum goes in two directions; one is amount/intensity, the other frequency. Among the neurodiverse more likely to find more frequent and higher intensity. Among the neurotypical, more likely to find lower frequncy with a range of intensity. Don't believe me? Find the Comcast ad where they give the family cable phone service and watch the teen jump up and down and flap her hand. Or just watch the end of any game show that pays the contestants to jump up and down. No shortage of flapping there.
Examples you can find in real life (cartoons are a good place to look too): being blunt and truthful, hitting one's head (Doh!), rocking, playing the same song over and over again, insistence on routine - in short, almost anything people define as autistic behavior is something everyone has done at least once in their life. This suggests to me that we are all on the same continuum for any of these characteristics.

The result of the development of this schematic of behavior (I hope) will be to normalize behaviors and diminish the power of the labels.

Hm, did this have anything to do with your question?

I need to further absorb the formulas. Slow start-up, quick finisher.

Yes this was usable theory, as everything should be. I appreciate the effort and will be thoroughtly amazed once i fully grasp the basis.

One thing i understand you to say is this;

ALL people of All walks of life, share all the same qualities but to varying degrees.

is this a correct assumption?

If so then the reason for labeling is the same as racism. All humans comprise of the same basic (i'm no scientist) double helix actions passed from parent to child. Some peopl are more Blacker, some more Slanty eyed, Some taller, Fatter, Dorkier, whatever and etc...

The new PC way to treat people in different races and such is with understanding, NOT LABELS.
Labels of course are unavoidable. My concern is the labels being a reiffying controller. And in children can be a life sentence. I am sure you know what i mean.

If we are to act PC when it comes to race then whty is the world not ready to embrace our neuro-differences with open arms. Why aren't they looking for a cure for Blackness, Whiteness, etc...

Cure me, or cure my daughter, cure us all. What would that accomplish?

We would then be able to look people in the eyes. We don't because we don't trust people and with good reason.

We would then be able to hold a 2 way conversation. We cannot because we are honest with ourselves.

By honest i mean that every persons instinct is survival. "looking out for #1" That is at the basis of ALL life form. People, i believe are egoists. Thinking first about their needs above all others. And rightful so, look at human achievement. Other people use two way conversation as a means to an end, or a tool for manipulation of some sort. Otherwise what's the point>

As AS we are in a constant search for truth. We communicate our one sided views as a means to change. there is no hidden subtext no alterior motive we simply want the other to know what we hold to be self evident.

Extra Honesty is our only shortcoming, In my oppinion. everything else is relative.

depends on who is talking. If me, yes. Others agree.

spot on.

yes. but the idea is not new. it just keeps getting quashed.

oh, but we are. black people police themselves so they are acceptable to white standards (so do white people but i can't speak to that). the world's PC regarding race is just what you say - an act. that is why we are so far away from acceptance of neurodiversity. if the dominant disourse prevails, we will all embrace exactly the same individuality, because we will all be exactly alike.

actually theory says it produces a fight or flight response. for me it produces pain (cross-wiring). if i look into someone's eyes long enough it hurts so much i cry.

i agree that there is no hidden subtext. but remember empathy? what frustrates NTs is that out behavior is unpredictable because they can't project themselves onto us. when they do, they assume subterfuge because that is what they would do. they cannot believe that we are simply telling the truth. therefore one who tells the truth is dangerous and means them harm.
there is more than extra honesty, which i disagree is a shortcoming. rather than shortcoming i would use the word disadvantages, which includes the connotation of context. among other neurodiverse folks extra honesty is "normal" and likely expected. among NTs it is a disadvantage. same with stimming and reliance on logic rather than emotion as communication. NTs use emotion to understand and manipulate in conversation. one who chooses not to or cannot use this means of communication is at a disadvantage unless around other people who hold the same values.

in the context of NT discourse there are many disadvantages. in the context of wrong planet there are few.

glad to continue this discourse with you. highly stimulating. nice to find similar mind.

I base the functionality of the term "disorder" by it use for treatment. And by treatment I don't just mean medications and therapies but also how we, individually, treat ourselves. Whether it gives us more knowledge and aids us in being out in the world.

Treatment is the only purpose of a "disorder". But I do agree that the pharmaceutical companies (thank you GW Bush) have become BUSINESSES based on monetary profit. Therefore, they push whatever they can and pad their own research so that they CAN push whatever they can. And politicians have made guidelines keeping these companies in line less stringent with even dangerous outcomes (Vioxx as per example).

I recommend natural therapies, vitamins, improvement of diet and psychotherapies before I recommend using medications. To me, meds are a last resort because they can be so unreliable and have so many short and long term side effects. But I still think that for many they are necessary and have their function. But I only recommend them if all else fails or if the person is unwilling to try any of the aforementioned.

But this society really is too med happy at present.

Wonder what you think about this:
Empathy falls in the family of communication, with some overlap in the emotion processing family.
This made me think about the fact that even though NDs frequently are portrayed as not having emotions, we do have them, often exactly in the same way NTs have them. I initially thought that it was a matter of instinct, that NTs instinctively process emotions while NDs instinctively process data. But this is not quite accurate. I think that NDs priorotize data over emotion, while NTs prioritize emotion. This would result in a completely different strategy for information gathering in a social context. In order for an ND to comprehend what is happening in a conversation, they would have to process millions of bits of information (including words, voice tone, facial expression, posture, context, historical and future relationships, expectations) cognitively, while an NT would look at their feelings and respond on that basis - much faster, especially with practice.

The formula might look like this:
Comprehension (Cm) = W + Vt + Fe + P + Cx + Rh + Rf + Exp + EM (empathy) + AT (attention)


If I were further along in the development of the theory I would be able to group these characteristics into their families and shorten the formula. Note that I am using all caps to represent characteristics arrived at by combining other characteristics.

It might seem unwieldy, but so would be a unified field theory. Even E=MC2 is not a simple thing.

Input is always appreciated.

A note about disorders. they are a social construct. back when so called disorders were considered individual differences people were "treated" by accomodating their differences where possible. as we evolved we began to think about cures and treatments and those invasive techniques became the foundation for the medical profession as we know it today. an example of how maladaptive is this ideology is intersex children who until recently immediately had surgery to correct any ambiguity (nastily, the default was female). this surgery is always fully covered by insurance and includes the surgery done to ensure that a labeled male will be able to pee standing up. people with intersex conditions have advocated for children to be left alone until they can decide whether they want a "correction," and for these conditions to be considered normal, not disorders.

the more things you can find to fix, the more money you can make.
on the other hand, my life has been much better after ADHD medication.
on the other hand, i am working to return to the point at while i was med free.

I'm not going on much more than personal observation, but I don't think this is true. Some ND's certainly swing heavily towards data, but some are experts beyond the NT norm at pattern recognition and reading the "feel" of a situation. Of those I've gotten to know in person, one is highly logical and has every emotion separated and parsed out like Data. They'd certain fit your prioritizing data model. But another relies far more on sensation; for example zeroing in on the fluctuations in a person's voice tone and using that as an indicator of mood while ignoring the logical conclusions that could be drawn from what is said. And some like myself switch regularly between one way of thought and the other, but have a lot of trouble mixing them both at the same time.

The reason i view it as our main disadvantage goes back to my basis of 'start-up' challenges.
Living under the rules of normal within society, our deep need for truth and lack of dishonesty in both verbal and non-verbal terms presents us with a considerable disadvantage. And as a result we build walls in an effort to cope. Not looking some-one in the eyes for the reason of severe pain that it inflicts on you tells me much. Likely, you are more passionate than most AS people in terms of honesty as it relates to your behavior. Also, that you must be ultra sensitive about the illogical aspects that dishonesty creates (Ultra Sensitive not meant in a negative manner). And, you have been spurned by dishonesty to a very high degree. And finally, that you havebuilt stronger higher and deeper walls than what is average out of contempt for the LIAR. YOU are reminded by looking into the eyes about the brutal way in which people conduct themselves as a means to achieving their ends.

What do people always say?

"look me in the eyes when you say that!"

that is used to read the nonverbal meaning of someones statement, telling of a liar.
Or it is used as a challenging statement, a prelude to fight.

Have you seen the movie TRUE ROMANCE? Q Terrintino (wonder how normal he is)

In it, during the egg-plant scene w/ C Walken and D Hopper (and T Soprano) the dialogue reveals how Sicilian people are the greatest liars in the world. It is an art form for them. Anyways, there are several 'tells' that a liar shows with their non-verbal actions many of which are related through the actions of the persons eyes.

Regular people are like this, "you want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

Aspies are like this , "You want the truth? You can't handle the lies!"

I am still theorizing, and at the beginning stages.

But, the simple point is that there are many spectrums within the spectrum. I view them to be mainly adaptive behavior (walls, defenses etc...) as a means to coping with an unfamiliar world, and the rules of social behavior. I view many of those rules to be based in advantage taking motives, general deceit.
One common trait i have found in describing AS persons is ill tact, bluntness or the kind. Passion for truth and empathy for all that stands in its way.

Within the spectrum, spectrums the main underlying theme is honesty. And being forced to socialize in a dishonest world causes great 'start-up' challenges. As a result, the reclusiveness, the comfort dealing with things or animals moreso than other people, the inability to make eye contact (which diminishes non verbal skills) The rote reading, the single minded focusing on tasks, all these things are adaptive, learnt behahaviors as a means of coping.
We are more comfortable being alone because there is no hurt, just some lonliness.
We do not look into the eyes because we want to believe you.
Predictablity is comforting because you know the truth (the sun always rises in the east)
Out of all the pets i'vs had only cat's sometimes lie.
and so on...

the post was meant to illicit other ideas or new thinking on the current work in progress. It is purely a selfish post. i wish to gain insight into mine and my daughters struggles as a means of redefining our symptoms. and finding the basis, from there i would begin to look into ways of adapting our behaviors into a more social friendly way.

MY DISCLAIMER IS THIS:
i do not believe that my honety theory fits into Kanners Autistc Disorder. If it does than severely autistic are the most honest people of all. Also, i do not make claim to any other persons challenges, since i can only know myself. And in that case i make no judgements, if i come accross that way then it is simply one of my symptoms, but i intend no malice.
FINALLY,
i view most of the psychiatric profession as communicative crap. They are constantly flip-flopping on universal truths. the mind is way too complex to fully know. What ever i hear as a diagnosis, my first step is to assume it is false. If i begin to accept the idea then my next step is to decide whether it fits too perfectly, at that point, if the answer is yes i return to the first step and begin anew.

In Summary,
i read this quote when i was researching PDD. i got a good article by DR. Kutscher called Autistic Spectrum Disorders and i downloaded it from http://www.pediatricneurology.com/autism.htm
it is fairly informative and less biased than most.
he ends his paper with this quote from a professor's comments his first day in Medical School:

"ONE THIRD OF WHAT I TEACH YOU THIS YEAR IS WRONG. UNFORTUNATELY I DO NOT KNOW WHICH THIRD."

i appreciate honesty

But voice tone fluctuations ARE data. If that person was reliant on their emotional response to voice tone then I would say they prioritize emotional information. The same for you, unless when you are in emotion mode you depend on your emotional response to the other person as a source of information.
The closest I come to this is that I have some sense of a person (which I often ignore) that is closest to smell in terms of how it registers in my brain. When people "smell" bad I can't be around them, and usually I am right. However, I discount this sense because I have never received validation for it (people think I am crazy when I try to explain it). Yet even this is not an emotional reaction. Scarily, especially since I am the chinese sign of the dog, it is more like how dogs can smell fear....

I suck at multitasking. And that includes multi-listening.

Okay, maybe I don't quite understand your (Neuroman's) distinction between cognitive processing and emotional. I don't see the difference between your identification and confirmation stages, since both involve attempting to figure out the meaning of what you're sensing. The thing is, I'm not sure projection is always emotional. If I see a person run out of a room crying and remember the last time I ran out of a room crying, and think to myself that there might be a common motivation, is that emotional or cognitive?

I would say that yes, when I'm in what I call emotion mode, I'm depending on my emotional response to others for information. I think it might be similar to your "smell", except I trust it more. First comes the feeling of danger or longing or excitement, then comes the rational search for its cause. In logic mode, the emotional sense is overridden (usually cause I'm in a situation where it's going haywire) and not even noticed until the situation is over. Interesting that you say the smell of danger is not an emotion, it had never occurred to me to distinguish it from conventional emotions like happiness or grief before.

your explanation of emotion mode illustrates the distinction. Information is given and received via emotion and response. I am almost blind in this respect. Often I don't realize I was supposed to feel something until someone tells me.
the first might better be called hypothesis formation. the second sometimes happens simultaneously, especially if one is projecting - in other words, you see crying, feel sad and assume the other person is sad.
i would guess that since your reaction was based on analysis and not feeling sad or angry when you saw the other person crying.

I think this is information gathering prioritizing emotion.

disclaimer: all this is me thinking online - not tested theory.

from Fall 2005 AANE(Asperger's Association of New England) newsletter, article-Adults With Asperger's Syndrome:Let's Look Through A Broader Lens
by Jamie Freed
"They struggled to understand why people were always telling them, "You're so smart, why can't you just:
-Go to a family function and behave ? (Answer: the sensory and social stimuli overwhelm me.)
-Meet the deadline for completing this work assignment ? (Answer: I have executive function difficulties-I can't figure out what steps to take.)
-Just do what's asked of you ? (Answer: What you are asking seems illogical to me-that does not compute ! Or: I am confused by the complexity of this multi-part task. Or: I just can't figure out how to get started.)
-Tell me (spouse, friend, therapist) how you're feeling ? (Answer: I rely on thinking more than feeling-I have to think to know how I feel.)"
The last part, about needing to think about how one feels, not "just knowing"-that's why I posted it here. Difference between types of processing, how one figures a situation out, whether it's inside or outside oneself.