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Simon01
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01 Jul 2017, 12:10 pm

I had a very heated conversation with my mother last night about how fed up she and my father are with my laziness and not properly maintaining the apartment they 're helping me pay for. We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like, but when I've focused on real work and show real interest and zeal in *that*, that too becomes a special interest they end up dismissing and trying to restrict and interfere with. I'm not exaggerating- real work isn't real unless it serves someone else's interests and makes things suck for me, but doesn't count if I'm doing it for me, my way, and without anyone else's ideas imposed on it.

What's happening now is that I've been gradually getting better at keeping the apartment clean, and the project I'm working on is getting closer to reality, plus I'm making real plans to see about help looking for a part time job after I get tested next week- I'm hoping that with a real diagnosis, I will have a better idea of what kinds of jobs and work environments would be best suited to my situation and would still be enjoyable and paying enough to not need my parent's help later on (part time money plus my SSI check). My friends are happy for me about all of that, but the latest angry conversations with my parents have come *after* I've said all of that to them. I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me.

And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.

I'm almost tempted proceed with the testing, take the diagnosis and go from there with treatment, but tell my parents that either they found nothing wrong or else tell them something that "confirms" the whole lazy and irresponsible thing they want to hear, just to placate them. I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.



alex
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01 Jul 2017, 5:03 pm

Maybe if you get an actual diagnosis they won't be as dismissive.


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01 Jul 2017, 6:03 pm

Simon01 wrote:
We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like,
I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me. And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.
I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.


To break down all the narrative. No, you're not lazy and by the sounds of it, you keep yourself quite amicably clean, and should not be paranoid. The pschooanalysis is only drawn on the fact you only have OCD, the same as my ma has, and is not anything serious to worry about, because you would need a social worker to help you deal with the more unpleasant factors of living alone. Its actually not that unusual or uncommon for as aspie or autistic to have schizo affective traits tied in with their diagnosis because it separates us from other people, so naturally we are going to be inclined to act through our heightened despair, disbelief and irrational thoughts when nothing goes right. Depression and suicide often being channelled through recognition of these disturbing risk factors.
If caring isn't part and parcel of your parents vocabulary, something needs to give, either you start working for yourself or claim the SSI and live with friends and adapt. There are ways.
If the advice is hhow your parents are obviously doing it which is living withintheir means, then they won't care all too much if they are passive to you living outside their means and co existing on your own.
Who needs a parent who offer fiction instead of moral support and sound advice? Times have changed and people are being made aware of other people out there and often turn to them for a moral compass, well, only you can make that break, not them or anyone who/s following you in your conditional sphere.
In the U.K, acceptance is a common phrase, but not really known by everybody, so it falls on these 'professionals; to deal with a theme of challenged misconduct from their own black books, no one else has drawn up a chart for them.
If you're bright you can maintain a cushty lifestyle without the extra support, if you're short of a few A levels, then showing adeptness to others key principles will help you find what you want and then can springclean your latent manefesto into a growing reality.



Chronos
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01 Jul 2017, 6:24 pm

Simon01 wrote:
I had a very heated conversation with my mother last night about how fed up she and my father are with my laziness and not properly maintaining the apartment they 're helping me pay for. We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like, but when I've focused on real work and show real interest and zeal in *that*, that too becomes a special interest they end up dismissing and trying to restrict and interfere with. I'm not exaggerating- real work isn't real unless it serves someone else's interests and makes things suck for me, but doesn't count if I'm doing it for me, my way, and without anyone else's ideas imposed on it.

What's happening now is that I've been gradually getting better at keeping the apartment clean, and the project I'm working on is getting closer to reality, plus I'm making real plans to see about help looking for a part time job after I get tested next week- I'm hoping that with a real diagnosis, I will have a better idea of what kinds of jobs and work environments would be best suited to my situation and would still be enjoyable and paying enough to not need my parent's help later on (part time money plus my SSI check). My friends are happy for me about all of that, but the latest angry conversations with my parents have come *after* I've said all of that to them. I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me.

And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.

I'm almost tempted proceed with the testing, take the diagnosis and go from there with treatment, but tell my parents that either they found nothing wrong or else tell them something that "confirms" the whole lazy and irresponsible thing they want to hear, just to placate them. I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.


I'm sorry your parents aren't as emotionally supportive as you would like them to be. People on the spectrum are often accused of lacking empathy, but most people have difficulty empathizing with that which they don't understand, and most people have difficulty understanding things they themselves have never experienced.

That being said, when you are the recipient of the free good and services of others, you accept them under their conditions. Your parents apparently had an expectation that you would keep the apartment up to their standards of orderliness, and have ideas of what actions they expect you to take to move forward in life that you are not doing. This is merely the fact of the situation. Perhaps your parents would understand your struggles better if you did have a diagnosis, though regardless of whether or not they accept your diagnosis, I think it would be best for you to work on getting your own place such that you are no longer obliged to your parents standards.



Simon01
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03 Jul 2017, 4:10 pm

alex wrote:
Maybe if you get an actual diagnosis they won't be as dismissive.


I hope so. The problem has always been that they obviously accept thing in a broad sense but sometimes tend to be selective about what details they'll accept, so they'll accept a condition as something real while picking and choosing the aspects of it they're comfortable with or fixating on the negative aspects depending on what's more convenient. Dismissing Asperger's isn't because they think it's a fake condition, but rather dismissing it because to them it would give more credibility in how I manage things vs. following their rules- "owning" the problem and finding better ways I can get things done on my terms looks too much like a license to avoid accountability.



Simon01
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03 Jul 2017, 4:26 pm

Empathy wrote:
Simon01 wrote:
We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like,
I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me. And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.
I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.


To break down all the narrative. No, you're not lazy and by the sounds of it, you keep yourself quite amicably clean, and should not be paranoid. The pschooanalysis is only drawn on the fact you only have OCD, the same as my ma has, and is not anything serious to worry about, because you would need a social worker to help you deal with the more unpleasant factors of living alone. Its actually not that unusual or uncommon for as aspie or autistic to have schizo affective traits tied in with their diagnosis because it separates us from other people, so naturally we are going to be inclined to act through our heightened despair, disbelief and irrational thoughts when nothing goes right. Depression and suicide often being channelled through recognition of these disturbing risk factors.
If caring isn't part and parcel of your parents vocabulary, something needs to give, either you start working for yourself or claim the SSI and live with friends and adapt. There are ways.
If the advice is hhow your parents are obviously doing it which is living withintheir means, then they won't care all too much if they are passive to you living outside their means and co existing on your own.
Who needs a parent who offer fiction instead of moral support and sound advice? Times have changed and people are being made aware of other people out there and often turn to them for a moral compass, well, only you can make that break, not them or anyone who/s following you in your conditional sphere.
In the U.K, acceptance is a common phrase, but not really known by everybody, so it falls on these 'professionals; to deal with a theme of challenged misconduct from their own black books, no one else has drawn up a chart for them.
If you're bright you can maintain a cushty lifestyle without the extra support, if you're short of a few A levels, then showing adeptness to others key principles will help you find what you want and then can springclean your latent manefesto into a growing reality.


The frustrating thing with my parents is that the support is very real, but for all the talk and angry discussions about how I'm not maintaining the apartment or showing other signs of responsibility, the accusations of irresponsibility get worse when they see obvious proof that I'm actually trying to make things better. It's not about actually being more responsible, but rather how much time and energy it costs me. Basically the results are invalidated by me doing things my way and still having time for myself. And the confusing thing is that the prospect of me *not* needing their help later on seems to bother them despite their complaining- my mother's rant about my personal life and how lazy I am came a few days after she had been in the apartment and had seen evidence of cleaning and organizing and hearing me talk about potential success later on both with my project and with finding a good job after I have a diagnosis and have a better idea what kinds of jobs would be a good fit with my condition. She was here earlier today and saw that my friends had helped me over the weekend get the apartment cleaner and helped me organize more of the boxes of old items I have and spun her version of it as me getting it done under a threat. She joked about how she and my father are still going to make things unpleasant for me, which really ruins whatever good feelings I had about simply having gotten some needed cleaning and organizing done. Basically it doesn't count if I do it for myself. If I show signs of being more responsible, that just means they'll have to work harder to find something to complain about.



Simon01
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03 Jul 2017, 4:41 pm

Chronos wrote:
Simon01 wrote:
I had a very heated conversation with my mother last night about how fed up she and my father are with my laziness and not properly maintaining the apartment they 're helping me pay for. We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like, but when I've focused on real work and show real interest and zeal in *that*, that too becomes a special interest they end up dismissing and trying to restrict and interfere with. I'm not exaggerating- real work isn't real unless it serves someone else's interests and makes things suck for me, but doesn't count if I'm doing it for me, my way, and without anyone else's ideas imposed on it.

What's happening now is that I've been gradually getting better at keeping the apartment clean, and the project I'm working on is getting closer to reality, plus I'm making real plans to see about help looking for a part time job after I get tested next week- I'm hoping that with a real diagnosis, I will have a better idea of what kinds of jobs and work environments would be best suited to my situation and would still be enjoyable and paying enough to not need my parent's help later on (part time money plus my SSI check). My friends are happy for me about all of that, but the latest angry conversations with my parents have come *after* I've said all of that to them. I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me.

And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.

I'm almost tempted proceed with the testing, take the diagnosis and go from there with treatment, but tell my parents that either they found nothing wrong or else tell them something that "confirms" the whole lazy and irresponsible thing they want to hear, just to placate them. I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.


I'm sorry your parents aren't as emotionally supportive as you would like them to be. People on the spectrum are often accused of lacking empathy, but most people have difficulty empathizing with that which they don't understand, and most people have difficulty understanding things they themselves have never experienced.

That being said, when you are the recipient of the free good and services of others, you accept them under their conditions. Your parents apparently had an expectation that you would keep the apartment up to their standards of orderliness, and have ideas of what actions they expect you to take to move forward in life that you are not doing. This is merely the fact of the situation. Perhaps your parents would understand your struggles better if you did have a diagnosis, though regardless of whether or not they accept your diagnosis, I think it would be best for you to work on getting your own place such that you are no longer obliged to your parents standards.


Spot on about empathy: I'm not being insensitive to my parent's frustration up to this point with my slow progress with things or problems with executive functioning. I *do* understand where they're coming from but only up to a point. What I don't understand is their increased anger and frustration when I've made real efforts to improve things, or like what's happening now, I'm finally getting a handle on things. I see the possibilities the testing and having a diagnosis will open up- knowing what's really going on with me, and from there being able to seek treatment. I'm excited about finally being able really do something with the creative interests I'm passionate about as well as being able to find at least a part time job so I can supplement my SSI and have the extra money to both pursue my other interests *and* most importantly, be able to keep the apartment without needing my parent's help. It might take a few months (looking at taking my test results and seeing what vocational services I might qualify for) but I'm actually optimistic and my friends are really supportive. I have friends coming around and helping me with the cleaning and working in stages on organizing the boxes of old things I have, and actually a lot have gotten done in the past couple of weeks.

So I agree that if my parents have been helping so far, why all the anger *now* when I'm trying to comply with their expectations about keeping the apartment cleaned and organized and the added anger when faced with the prospect of me *not* needing their help later on? Being an aspie and "owning" it should be a good thing- taking responsibility and learning how to do things despite limitations, as I'm doing with my physical disability, should not be seen as a bad thing.

A lot of *my* frustration is the fight over actually getting tasks done vs. their or someone else's efforts to make routine, rules, procedures, minutiae, etc. a job to itself. I've had too many experiences with getting a job done and done well only to face some sort of retribution for not doing things someone else's way. With my parents, it's also more of a time issue than actual results. They expect a certain amount of time to be spent (wasted) on something even when it's unnecessary.



Chronos
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04 Jul 2017, 4:13 pm

Simon01 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Simon01 wrote:
I had a very heated conversation with my mother last night about how fed up she and my father are with my laziness and not properly maintaining the apartment they 're helping me pay for. We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like, but when I've focused on real work and show real interest and zeal in *that*, that too becomes a special interest they end up dismissing and trying to restrict and interfere with. I'm not exaggerating- real work isn't real unless it serves someone else's interests and makes things suck for me, but doesn't count if I'm doing it for me, my way, and without anyone else's ideas imposed on it.

What's happening now is that I've been gradually getting better at keeping the apartment clean, and the project I'm working on is getting closer to reality, plus I'm making real plans to see about help looking for a part time job after I get tested next week- I'm hoping that with a real diagnosis, I will have a better idea of what kinds of jobs and work environments would be best suited to my situation and would still be enjoyable and paying enough to not need my parent's help later on (part time money plus my SSI check). My friends are happy for me about all of that, but the latest angry conversations with my parents have come *after* I've said all of that to them. I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me.

And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.

I'm almost tempted proceed with the testing, take the diagnosis and go from there with treatment, but tell my parents that either they found nothing wrong or else tell them something that "confirms" the whole lazy and irresponsible thing they want to hear, just to placate them. I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.


I'm sorry your parents aren't as emotionally supportive as you would like them to be. People on the spectrum are often accused of lacking empathy, but most people have difficulty empathizing with that which they don't understand, and most people have difficulty understanding things they themselves have never experienced.

That being said, when you are the recipient of the free good and services of others, you accept them under their conditions. Your parents apparently had an expectation that you would keep the apartment up to their standards of orderliness, and have ideas of what actions they expect you to take to move forward in life that you are not doing. This is merely the fact of the situation. Perhaps your parents would understand your struggles better if you did have a diagnosis, though regardless of whether or not they accept your diagnosis, I think it would be best for you to work on getting your own place such that you are no longer obliged to your parents standards.


Spot on about empathy: I'm not being insensitive to my parent's frustration up to this point with my slow progress with things or problems with executive functioning. I *do* understand where they're coming from but only up to a point. What I don't understand is their increased anger and frustration when I've made real efforts to improve things, or like what's happening now, I'm finally getting a handle on things. I see the possibilities the testing and having a diagnosis will open up- knowing what's really going on with me, and from there being able to seek treatment. I'm excited about finally being able really do something with the creative interests I'm passionate about as well as being able to find at least a part time job so I can supplement my SSI and have the extra money to both pursue my other interests *and* most importantly, be able to keep the apartment without needing my parent's help. It might take a few months (looking at taking my test results and seeing what vocational services I might qualify for) but I'm actually optimistic and my friends are really supportive. I have friends coming around and helping me with the cleaning and working in stages on organizing the boxes of old things I have, and actually a lot have gotten done in the past couple of weeks.

So I agree that if my parents have been helping so far, why all the anger *now* when I'm trying to comply with their expectations about keeping the apartment cleaned and organized and the added anger when faced with the prospect of me *not* needing their help later on? Being an aspie and "owning" it should be a good thing- taking responsibility and learning how to do things despite limitations, as I'm doing with my physical disability, should not be seen as a bad thing.

A lot of *my* frustration is the fight over actually getting tasks done vs. their or someone else's efforts to make routine, rules, procedures, minutiae, etc. a job to itself. I've had too many experiences with getting a job done and done well only to face some sort of retribution for not doing things someone else's way. With my parents, it's also more of a time issue than actual results. They expect a certain amount of time to be spent (wasted) on something even when it's unnecessary.


I can't explain your parent's behavior. However, when you dwell in the house of your parents, you live under their rules. If you receive SSI you likely qualify for your own housing.



Simon01
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04 Jul 2017, 8:42 pm

Chronos wrote:
Simon01 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Simon01 wrote:
I had a very heated conversation with my mother last night about how fed up she and my father are with my laziness and not properly maintaining the apartment they 're helping me pay for. We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like, but when I've focused on real work and show real interest and zeal in *that*, that too becomes a special interest they end up dismissing and trying to restrict and interfere with. I'm not exaggerating- real work isn't real unless it serves someone else's interests and makes things suck for me, but doesn't count if I'm doing it for me, my way, and without anyone else's ideas imposed on it.

What's happening now is that I've been gradually getting better at keeping the apartment clean, and the project I'm working on is getting closer to reality, plus I'm making real plans to see about help looking for a part time job after I get tested next week- I'm hoping that with a real diagnosis, I will have a better idea of what kinds of jobs and work environments would be best suited to my situation and would still be enjoyable and paying enough to not need my parent's help later on (part time money plus my SSI check). My friends are happy for me about all of that, but the latest angry conversations with my parents have come *after* I've said all of that to them. I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me.

And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.

I'm almost tempted proceed with the testing, take the diagnosis and go from there with treatment, but tell my parents that either they found nothing wrong or else tell them something that "confirms" the whole lazy and irresponsible thing they want to hear, just to placate them. I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.


I'm sorry your parents aren't as emotionally supportive as you would like them to be. People on the spectrum are often accused of lacking empathy, but most people have difficulty empathizing with that which they don't understand, and most people have difficulty understanding things they themselves have never experienced.

That being said, when you are the recipient of the free good and services of others, you accept them under their conditions. Your parents apparently had an expectation that you would keep the apartment up to their standards of orderliness, and have ideas of what actions they expect you to take to move forward in life that you are not doing. This is merely the fact of the situation. Perhaps your parents would understand your struggles better if you did have a diagnosis, though regardless of whether or not they accept your diagnosis, I think it would be best for you to work on getting your own place such that you are no longer obliged to your parents standards.


Spot on about empathy: I'm not being insensitive to my parent's frustration up to this point with my slow progress with things or problems with executive functioning. I *do* understand where they're coming from but only up to a point. What I don't understand is their increased anger and frustration when I've made real efforts to improve things, or like what's happening now, I'm finally getting a handle on things. I see the possibilities the testing and having a diagnosis will open up- knowing what's really going on with me, and from there being able to seek treatment. I'm excited about finally being able really do something with the creative interests I'm passionate about as well as being able to find at least a part time job so I can supplement my SSI and have the extra money to both pursue my other interests *and* most importantly, be able to keep the apartment without needing my parent's help. It might take a few months (looking at taking my test results and seeing what vocational services I might qualify for) but I'm actually optimistic and my friends are really supportive. I have friends coming around and helping me with the cleaning and working in stages on organizing the boxes of old things I have, and actually a lot have gotten done in the past couple of weeks.

So I agree that if my parents have been helping so far, why all the anger *now* when I'm trying to comply with their expectations about keeping the apartment cleaned and organized and the added anger when faced with the prospect of me *not* needing their help later on? Being an aspie and "owning" it should be a good thing- taking responsibility and learning how to do things despite limitations, as I'm doing with my physical disability, should not be seen as a bad thing.

A lot of *my* frustration is the fight over actually getting tasks done vs. their or someone else's efforts to make routine, rules, procedures, minutiae, etc. a job to itself. I've had too many experiences with getting a job done and done well only to face some sort of retribution for not doing things someone else's way. With my parents, it's also more of a time issue than actual results. They expect a certain amount of time to be spent (wasted) on something even when it's unnecessary.


I can't explain your parent's behavior. However, when you dwell in the house of your parents, you live under their rules. If you receive SSI you likely qualify for your own housing.


Actually I haven't lived in their house for years, and I was living in apartments covered by housing assistance until just a few years ago. I had gotten some help from them with tertiary things. Even when they weren't paying for anything for me, the rule was that whatever apartment I lived in, I wasn't allowed to call it "mine" or "my home" around them, and was required to follow their rules regarding chores and organizing, and allowing them to conduct inspection visits. They never had a legal right to do any of that, it was just their attitude that I had to be held accountable since no one else would. They felt that I had to "pay" for living on my own with time- time spent allowing them into the apartment or time spent on chores, even when it was pointed out that they really had no authority to demand anything

They have been helping me pay for the current apartment since things reached a point where housing assistance was becoming more restricted with coverage and helping clients find apartments that were wheelchair accessible. So I do understand that I actually might "owe" them that time in this case, but I resent wasting my time following the rules when they keep changing the conditions and inventing things to accuse me of. That's why it makes no sense that they'd get angrier about me making real efforts to be more responsible. I'm not trying to call their bluff nor am I caving to their threats, I'm simply seeing ways to work around the executive functioning problems I've always had, accepting help from friends, and looking at ways I can be more independent and either keep the current apartment while paying for it myself or look for a more affordable place to live if that's required. My point is that from their perspective, I can have my physical disability and be an aspie if it means having to follow someone else's rules, but it's less real if I have control over how I'm limited and "own" it- being a responsible adult by getting thing done my way.

The other part of the non-acceptance or selective acceptance is that they know about Asperger's as well as my other issues, as well as knowing about aspects of my physical disability, but still seem intent on either being passive aggressive or at time making it very obvious that they're not buying it (mostly with the mental issues). They've known for years about the sensory issues and yet have always seem to not see the connection between some of my behaviors (dark sunglasses, earphones, and needing time alone). There's a weird combination of knowing about it and being in denial- the selective acceptance I'm talking about. They read about autism years ago and later on seemed to know something about Asperger's but treat it both like something that only other people have and something I might have too, but only the negative elements of those conditions- making special interests into a fake problem that needs solving, or fixating on the executive functioning issues without really understanding why it's challenging for me to focus on things or why certain kinds of work are more of a challenge than it might be for most people.



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05 Jul 2017, 3:13 pm

Simon01 wrote:
I had a very heated conversation with my mother last night about how fed up she and my father are with my laziness and not properly maintaining the apartment they 're helping me pay for. We've had the same argument before, but it got really bad this time, basically I was told they're not really buying it about my depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and possibly being on the spectrum.

This though is their usual MO: accept or dismiss something based on convenience and how it fits their "narrative" or not. They've complained a lot over the years about how irresponsible I've supposedly been, but they ignore all the times I was very responsible, because there's too much energy invested in being angry about the failures to focus on successes.
Health issues are real when they restrict special interests or require following a lot of rules, but are downplayed and sometimes considered excuses when there's something unpleasant to endure or someone else's plans must be followed. And physical and mental health issues are real, but only when they affect other people.

And "special interests" aren't just hobbies or leisure activities: We've had lots of fights about how I spend my free time or how I've spent too much time pursuing the geeky things I like, but when I've focused on real work and show real interest and zeal in *that*, that too becomes a special interest they end up dismissing and trying to restrict and interfere with. I'm not exaggerating- real work isn't real unless it serves someone else's interests and makes things suck for me, but doesn't count if I'm doing it for me, my way, and without anyone else's ideas imposed on it.

What's happening now is that I've been gradually getting better at keeping the apartment clean, and the project I'm working on is getting closer to reality, plus I'm making real plans to see about help looking for a part time job after I get tested next week- I'm hoping that with a real diagnosis, I will have a better idea of what kinds of jobs and work environments would be best suited to my situation and would still be enjoyable and paying enough to not need my parent's help later on (part time money plus my SSI check). My friends are happy for me about all of that, but the latest angry conversations with my parents have come *after* I've said all of that to them. I get harangued about being lazy, and harangued worse when I take steps to be more independent. Because I'm doing those things without someone else imposing their rules on me.

And the overarching thing here is that they're not really accepting my mental situation- or rather, being selective about it. Mental issues are real if it means some authority figure makes me get my comeuppance for all the past mistakes, laziness, etc, but not real when it helps explain some of the challenges I've had to deal with or me being able to "own" the conditions and finally pursue things important to me- creative work, real job, etc., without having to answer to someone else.

I've said it before- my family is overall supportive but I simply don't get why I'm in more trouble with them whenever it looks like I actually won't need their help or money later on? And what's all the more aggravating is that my mother dismisses ADHD and possibly being on the spectrum as the basis for the executive functioning problems I have, while joking about her fixation on non-stop cleaning and organizing as being OCD. Apparently mental problems that make you addicted to work are socially acceptable.

I'm almost tempted proceed with the testing, take the diagnosis and go from there with treatment, but tell my parents that either they found nothing wrong or else tell them something that "confirms" the whole lazy and irresponsible thing they want to hear, just to placate them. I've said it before, legally they can't do anything about the lack of control they have, but I'm trying to make sure they don't decide to cut me off *after* I've started looking for a job but can't afford to go without their help.


It sounds to me like your parents don't want you to grow up & be more independent, they also love that they are taking care of you & it is very hard to let you go to be your own person.


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