Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 

ThisIsNotMyRealName
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 157

30 Dec 2008, 3:11 am

From

http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/school.htm

----------
When Neil Marr and I were writing our book Bullycide: death at playtime we discovered that if bullying is rife in the playground then it’s likely to be rife in the staffroom, and vice-versa. Teachers are the largest group of enquirers to Bully OnLine and in most cases the identified serial bully is the head teacher with one of the behaviour profiles at workbully/serial.htm. A teacher or principal who is bullying members of staff is likely to be bullying the pupils also. In these cases the good teachers - the majority - have become disempowered and disenfranchised. The bullying is designed to try and hide the fact that the principal lacks integrity, maturity and thus, significantly, does not have control of discipline but is now embarking on a campaign to vilify the bullied child and their family in order to divert attention away from his or her lack of competence and to evade liability and personal accountability. Increasingly in the UK, it seems, head teachers are being appointed on the basis of their willingness to simply obey orders and comply with meeting government targets and regardless of their lack of interpersonal skills or educational ability. Such heads often have a high intelligence but a low emotional intelligence (EQ) - and at secondary school level and above it seems that most head teachers and principals share the same funny handshake.
--------------



millie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,154

30 Dec 2008, 3:21 am

thanks.
:D

my son's dad is a teacher and has spoken about exactly this issue. I will show him the article.
I have also seen it in action in the TAFE system here in Australia - which is like a tech college. the health of a system - any system - is dependent upon the health of its parts. If there is an abuse of power at the apex - it definitely has a flow-on effect that rots the institution and its people to the core.

Bullying, the abuse of power, secrecy, etc etc. all yucky stuff.



TPE2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,461

30 Dec 2008, 5:37 am

Quote:
It seems that children bully for a variety of reasons and when dealing with child bullying it's essential to identify who is the bully at the centre of the violence - there's usually one person who's the gang leader - and the reasons for bullying which include:

*frustration - a child is impaired in some way and is frustrated and resentful because the source of their difficulty has not been identified - problems can include deafness, dyslexia, autism, allergy, being left-handed, undiagnosed PTSD or some unidentified learning difficulty - nevertheless the child is expected to perform at the level required by the school and no attempt is made to identify the source of the frustration

*the child is being bullied, the responsible adults have repeatedly failed in their duty of care, so the child slowly and reluctantly starts to exhibit aggressive behaviours because that's the only way to survive in this bullying-entrenched climate
poor or no role model - the child has no role model at home, or a poor role model for one or both parents and has never had the opportunity to learn behaviour skills

*abuse at home - the child is being abused and is expressing their anger through bullying
neglect at home - similar to abuse as the child's emotional and behavioural development is being retarded

*undue influence - the child has fallen in with the wrong crowd

*conduct disorder - the child has a conduct disorder, the precursor to antisocial, psychopathic or other personality disorder


I suspect that the main reason for bullying is none of them: it is the boredom.Specially, at preteen years, children are to old to play and to young to the serious issues, then the only avaliable pasttime is to choose the strangest kid of the class and bully him.



PrisonerSix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 689
Location: The Village

30 Dec 2008, 9:51 am

There are teachers who are bullies as well. I remember a guy I knew in high school who told me a story from 8th grade that this story reminded me of. This boy was overweight, and a girl in the class started getting everyone to call him "Butter", short for Butterball. One day his teacher was reading out grades and when they got to his, the teacher called him Butter instead of his name. To me, this was totally out of line for a teacher to do.

I think his parents should have been down at that school raising hell with both that teacher and the principal. I don't know if he told his parents or not, but either way that didn't happen. In spite of all the things my parents did, they'd have done just that if it happened to me.


_________________
PrisonerSix

"I am not a number, I am a free man!"


Padium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,369

30 Dec 2008, 9:53 am

I have too many horrible past issues in this area. I was almost driven to insanity, until I realized I was bigger and stronger than the person who was bullying me in elementary school (the idiot was actually making fun of me for having buffed up over the summer, and that gave me the idea that I was actually the strongest one out of that grade, I spent the summer chopping wood, kyaking, etc.) and because I was stronger, did what I felt had to be done at the time, jand he left me alone for a while. When he startede again, I laid him out once more, and that was the end of that. Never had to stand up for myself again, it was done. Until gr 12 when one guy really got on my nerves, and I knew the highschool wouldn't put up with that bs, so I went to people who could do something about it, but they did nothing because if they were to do something they would suspend us both because it was a back and forth thing (I told him I wouldn't put up with his bs, and that he should back off, but of course that is not what he claimed). I would have taken the suspention if he would have gotten it too, as he cared too much about his record to let that happen. Eventually I lost it, and laid him out, which I later found out he was trying to push me to do as he wanted to fight me, but wasnt ready for what he got. I can only take so much, and I would not put up with a years worth of torment. Although I will never intentionaly throw the first punch, I didn't have control of my body when I threw that punch. But I will say that when I hit the point that that does happen, all of my stress is instantly relieved, and I can generally go back to living normal. (and again, if it weren't for the kid that made me aware of my strength, when I hit the point that I would throw that punch, I would instead break down, and cry, which would have it even worse for me.)



sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

30 Dec 2008, 11:12 am

Taking a bully by the horns topic

I have this theory that a person who bullies does not do so in isolation: s/he learns from example, and at the school.

Children spend six hours a day at school. This is thirty hours a week. I know from my own years in a bullying environment that children picked up a lot of the "identification with the aggressor" in the school system. Guess who the aggressors are? :evil:


_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo


Magnus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,372
Location: Claremont, California

30 Dec 2008, 1:52 pm

That was a great read. I especially found the manipulative female rescuer bully syndrome to be insightful. This is something I knew on a level that was hard to articulate until now.

I wonder if there are any lawsuits against this type of subtle workplace harassment.



history_of_psychiatry
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,105
Location: X

30 Dec 2008, 2:19 pm

Unfortunately bullying is found just about everywhere. It's found in school, the workplace, the neighborhood, in politics, and so on. Most bullies are narcissists and sociopaths who take pleasure out of causing pain to others. They are the ones who truly lack empathy. An aspie may have a hard time interpreting a certain social situation, but they at least have a conscience. Not so with most bullies. What I've never understood is that there are often a handful of bullies and a majority of people they bully. They majority needs to stick together to protect themselves from the bullies. In the schoolyard if there is only one bully that picks on everyone, why don't the rest of the kids stick together and gang up on the bully?


_________________
X


Nephesh
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 163

30 Dec 2008, 3:22 pm

history_of_psychiatry wrote:
Unfortunately bullying is found just about everywhere. It's found in school, the workplace, the neighborhood, in politics, and so on. Most bullies are narcissists and sociopaths who take pleasure out of causing pain to others. They are the ones who truly lack empathy. An aspie may have a hard time interpreting a certain social situation, but they at least have a conscience. Not so with most bullies. What I've never understood is that there are often a handful of bullies and a majority of people they bully. They majority needs to stick together to protect themselves from the bullies. In the schoolyard if there is only one bully that picks on everyone, why don't the rest of the kids stick together and gang up on the bully?


Children have not yet fully developed the concept of "group power", they only see themselves. So even if there was an attempt by a few to form a group to "deal" with the problem, the individual will still fear 1 on 1 retribution.

Plus those of us who were Aspie at the time really didn't have the social skills to have "friends" in the first place. Without having at least one true friend, there will never be the initial kernal for such a group to form around.

For me this was back in the early 1970's when the diagnosis for Asperger's was not there. So I didn't really know that I had a problem. I just thought that I was a person who didn't have any friends, that everybody disliked. Avoidance was a way of life for me. I knew that I was safer (usually) in a group of people, and that the worst attacks would normally only occur when I was apart from a mass of people. But I had to walk the 3 blocks home eventually - and they knew this. Then I was alone and vulnerable.

The types of attacks that would occur in a mass of people would be random and quick. Kicking my foot as I walked down the hall so that I would trip and fall. Slamming me into a wall. Slugging me from behind with a kidney shot and then disappearing into the crowd so that I would not even know who it was.

I'm sure that out of the 1000 or so students in my school that it wass less than a couple dozen who ever participated in attacking me. But that doesn't mean that anyone else was willing to stand up for me either when they saw the attacks occuring against me. And, obviously, I didn't fit into any of the clique groups that might have potentially stood up for me.

My current theory is that many of us with Asperger's have a "kick me" sign on our backs (in the spiritual realm). The bullies sense this sign and single us out.

Things got better for me in High School. I started my vertical growth spurt for one thing. For the other, I had always been raised that fighting was wrong and that we should all be pacifists. (Yeah, see how well that works in the face of a bully.) I had been fairly much in control of my meltdowns. The few meltdowns that I would have would be not so much violence as emotional crying jags when I got home. But with the hormons of puberty came a greater tendency towards violent meltdowns. So, once I had begun to grow someone finally pushed me too far and I melted down all over him in a violent way. After word of that passed around I was not picked on as much. But the meltdown frightened me because I had never been violent like that before. I was worried that I was become what I hated most in the bullies.



ThisIsNotMyRealName
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 157

30 Dec 2008, 3:42 pm

Violence is justified in defending yourself.

Just because you couldn't use violence when the bullies ran away, doesn't make it wrong when you did finally get around to using it.

Defensive violence is always justified, aggressive never.

Bullies dislike being the victims of violence as much as anyone else, so dishing a bit out to them usually avoids more.

If word gets out that you're capable of handling yourself in a one-on-one, it travels pretty far and fast.

The thing I found was that when I gave a nasty piece of work a good hiding, I found myself very popular for having done it.

But I have to concede, I never expected to find it quite as satisfying as I did ... in a visceral way - quite a revelation.



Nephesh
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 163

31 Dec 2008, 1:38 am

ThisIsNotMyRealName wrote:
Violence is justified in defending yourself.

Just because you couldn't use violence when the bullies ran away, doesn't make it wrong when you did finally get around to using it.

Defensive violence is always justified, aggressive never.

Bullies dislike being the victims of violence as much as anyone else, so dishing a bit out to them usually avoids more.

If word gets out that you're capable of handling yourself in a one-on-one, it travels pretty far and fast.

The thing I found was that when I gave a nasty piece of work a good hiding, I found myself very popular for having done it.

But I have to concede, I never expected to find it quite as satisfying as I did ... in a visceral way - quite a revelation.


This information is 45 years too late for me.

And just as I missed all those social indications of what was "cool" and what wasn't - I also missed out on all those things about how to fight properly and win. How to not "hit like a girl" or whatever. Telling the victim of a bully that he should fight back is great in theory. But most of us on the spectrum have a severe disadvantage in terms of coordination and skills in fighting.



31 Dec 2008, 1:52 am

Goodness, I have learned more about bullying. I thought bullying was making fun of someone, teasing them, making them feel bad, ridiculing them, giving them the silent treatment, being nasty, manipulating someone. I did not know other things were considered bullying such as discrimination.

They even had some conditions listed in there too such as Munchhausen and Narcissistic personality disorder. I didn't know having Munchhausen makes someone a bully because they are faking their symptoms or exaggerating them or deliberating making themselves sick or someone else to gain attention. Gaining attention is bullying?



TPE2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,461

31 Dec 2008, 7:43 am

Nephesh wrote:
history_of_psychiatry wrote:
Unfortunately bullying is found just about everywhere. It's found in school, the workplace, the neighborhood, in politics, and so on. Most bullies are narcissists and sociopaths who take pleasure out of causing pain to others. They are the ones who truly lack empathy. An aspie may have a hard time interpreting a certain social situation, but they at least have a conscience. Not so with most bullies. What I've never understood is that there are often a handful of bullies and a majority of people they bully. They majority needs to stick together to protect themselves from the bullies. In the schoolyard if there is only one bully that picks on everyone, why don't the rest of the kids stick together and gang up on the bully?


Children have not yet fully developed the concept of "group power", they only see themselves. So even if there was an attempt by a few to form a group to "deal" with the problem, the individual will still fear 1 on 1 retribution.


I think that you are both wrong:

- Bullies usually are the majority and victims the minority

- I think children have the concept of "group power" - at least, when I was in elementary school, we formed rival groups (sometimes even with names and rules) and fight each other at the playground. These can sound strange, but I suspect that these kind of environment can be good for people with low social skills: if you are bullied by one group, you have at least some benevolence from the "enemy" group;



Last edited by TPE2 on 31 Dec 2008, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ThatRedHairedGrrl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2008
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 912
Location: Walking through a shopping mall listening to Half Japanese on headphones

31 Dec 2008, 3:52 pm

I'm not sure about the head teacher thing. I knew teachers at school who were violent and sarcastic to all the kids (this was back before they decided corporal punishment wasn't PC, and a teacher could still throw the blackboard eraser at pupils or pull girls' hair without fear of reprise). But they never seemed to pick on anyone in particular; if a teacher had a reputation for being nasty, you knew he or she would be nasty to everyone.

The exception, however, appears to be PE teachers. From what I experienced and what I've heard from others, a lot of them appear to be bullies, and a lot of them pick on the fat or unathletic kids. The kids might get forced to do stuff they're not particularly competent at, often in front of the class, with both class and teacher watching and mocking their efforts; sometimes it's to the point of physical pain (I once had a PE teacher, accusing me of being 'lazy', make me run when I was literally doubled up with excruciating period cramps. I had to be sent home afterwards). Or those same kids will be excluded from more pleasant activities. (Again, I desperately wanted to dance in the school plays, but because the PE teachers organized auditions, I never even got to know when or where they were.) Or in team sports, they get publicly singled out for 'letting the side down'. And I've never seen any PE teacher step in and stop the humiliation of the 'pick your teams till the kids nobody likes are left over' system; in fact they usually seem to relish it.

Because it's construed as 'good for' non-sporty kids to be taunted into it, nobody does anything. Anyone who's been at the receiving end will tell you it usually puts you off physical activity for years.


_________________
"Grunge? Isn't that some gross shade of greenish orange?"


TPE2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,461

31 Dec 2008, 8:12 pm

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
I'm not sure about the head teacher thing. I knew teachers at school who were violent and sarcastic to all the kids (this was back before they decided corporal punishment wasn't PC, and a teacher could still throw the blackboard eraser at pupils or pull girls' hair without fear of reprise). But they never seemed to pick on anyone in particular; if a teacher had a reputation for being nasty, you knew he or she would be nasty to everyone.


My teacher of biology was nasty for everyone, but she was much more nasty to me than to the others (perhaps because I corrected the errors that she made during the classes).