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Greentea
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27 Dec 2008, 3:00 am

One of the things I find hardest to do in society's pecking order is when you have to pretend you're not angry at someone (who is higher than you in the pecking order) for something they themselves know it'd be ridiculous for you not to get angry at. Nowadays I take a kind of Prozac to help me hide my upset feelings, so it's easier to live with this social imperative. But still, it feels so artificial to pretend I'm not angry...

Eg: my coworker, whom I share an office with, does something really nasty to me. But since she's one of the boss's favorites and she has a lot of power in our group of coworkers (she's my direct supervisor's best friend too), I nowadays am aware that I cannot afford to be assertive with her and tell her off. So I have to pull this "no hard feelings" stupid smile and try to find opportunities to show her my boundaries in passive-aggressive ways.


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ThisIsNotMyRealName
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27 Dec 2008, 3:35 am

Greentea wrote:
One of the things I find hardest to do in society's pecking order is when you have to pretend you're not angry at someone (who is higher than you in the pecking order) for something they themselves know it'd be ridiculous for you not to get angry at. Nowadays I take a kind of Prozac to help me hide my upset feelings, so it's easier to live with this social imperative. But still, it feels so artificial to pretend I'm not angry...

Eg: my coworker, whom I share an office with, does something really nasty to me. But since she's one of the boss's favorites and she has a lot of power in our group of coworkers (she's my direct supervisor's best friend too), I nowadays am aware that I cannot afford to be assertive with her and tell her off. So I have to pull this "no hard feelings" stupid smile and try to find opportunities to show her my boundaries in passive-aggressive ways.

Hmm, that's a bummer - and must be extremely stressful too.
But you're right that it's probably better that you find a way of dealing with the consequences to yourself than with her.
That said, it may also pay to try and neutralise her hostility by going out of your way to be nice to her - just to see if it improves things.
Does she know you're Aspergic ?
Or would that make things even worse ?



Greentea
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27 Dec 2008, 3:21 pm

Well, actually, I'm not very concerned about this coworker (it was just an example of what I mean). I just try not to piss her off and stay out of her way as much as I can.


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27 Dec 2008, 11:19 pm

See, this is where I fail. I tend to see everyone the "same"...meaning I don't think about someone being higher or (lower) in power. I likely would have said something to her.


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Greentea
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28 Dec 2008, 2:26 am

I used to be like you, till I realized. I even used to argue with my bosses!


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cubedemon6073
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02 Jan 2009, 7:29 pm

Greentea wrote:
I used to be like you, till I realized. I even used to argue with my bosses!


You know a lot of times when I try to to ask questions of what they have said they take it as arguing with them? This baffles me.



marshall
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02 Jan 2009, 8:19 pm

I don't think I could ever handle that kind of job. 8O

If I only had to bother with this person once in a while I could just ignore it but if it's someone I have to work with every day it'd be pretty hard not to show my anger. Even if I would try not to say anything to such a person I would invariably end up showing my anger involuntarily in some type of mannerism. Like if the person asks for something might just throw it down on their desk rather than setting it down gently. Impossible for me to fake politeness when I hate a person's guts.



Greentea
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03 Jan 2009, 6:15 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
You know a lot of times when I try to to ask questions of what they have said they take it as arguing with them? This baffles me.


Yes, of course. I didn't know that you're not supposed to "question" someone higher in the hierarchy or they'll think you're trying to place yourself at their same level in the pecking order.

People sound surprised at my OP here, however I'm the only fool I ever knew who dared show anger at my bosses. Which means that on an unconscious, intuitive level, most people know you're supposed to hide your anger at those higher up in the pecking order.


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AlexKohler1
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03 Jan 2009, 9:34 am

I see what you mean. This isn't somthing I have difficulty with most of the time, as long as I know when I need to hide my emotions. It's still frustrating not to be able to express myself and somtimes seems usless or like people are being idiots, but It's still very important to remember and to learn for anyone who hasn't learned it. I never blame any problems relating to the world on everyone else, I blame them on myself and take the resposibility to correct what is wrong; I advise the same action for anyone who wants to be secessful because the world is full of people who really don't care what our problems are and I completely understand their thinking because they don't have the time to sort out everyone's issues. Once you know when to do it, hiding anger is very easy as long as you can keep down the frustration. Frustration is the hard part will give you away if you cannot hide it well.



Greentea
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03 Jan 2009, 9:43 am

Welcome aboard, Alex! And thanks for relating to my thread. Indeed, the frustration can give me away. That's why I take the med, even though I hate having to take meds to be nice enough to abusers.


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cubedemon6073
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03 Jan 2009, 1:06 pm

Greentea wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
You know a lot of times when I try to to ask questions of what they have said they take it as arguing with them? This baffles me.


Yes, of course. I didn't know that you're not supposed to "question" someone higher in the hierarchy or they'll think you're trying to place yourself at their same level in the pecking order.

People sound surprised at my OP here, however I'm the only fool I ever knew who dared show anger at my bosses. Which means that on an unconscious, intuitive level, most people know you're supposed to hide your anger at those higher up in the pecking order.


Greentea, how do I obtain the information I need without coming across as argumentative from an NT especially one who is higher up?



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03 Jan 2009, 1:12 pm

Prozac is so not the answer, they put me on that as a kid. I try to avoid any and all types of drugs now.


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Greentea
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03 Jan 2009, 1:40 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Greentea, how do I obtain the information I need without coming across as argumentative from an NT especially one who is higher up?


The one less powerful is supposed to manipulate the way to fulfilling their needs from the one more powerful in the relationship. This is what I have read and later observed to be correct. However, I know we Aspies tend to take words literally, so please use your own observation and conclusions and logic to guide you, more than my words.

Manipulations often used with doctors/bosses/etc. (I've started using them too):
Flattery (makes them take more kindly to your questions)
Waiting for the right timing (when they're in a good mood, when they owe you a favor, etc.)
Hinting gently at the questions, rather than direct questioning ("So I guess I should...", "I'd like to ask for your counsel...").
Pretend to be humble, ignorant, submissive, insecure.

In general, make them feel big right before you ask your questions, to neutralize their insecurity when being questioned. They're far, far more likely to be cooperative that way. And don't keep on asking if they seem to have had enough, be sensitive to changes in their attitude.

All they want is to continue feeling higher than you in the ladder, and to feel safe that you're not going to challenge them / make them feel stupid / give them a bad reputation for their answers.

Once they feel confident with you, they can be immensely cooperative, and even enjoy showing off their expertise to you.


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millie
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03 Jan 2009, 2:50 pm

i CANNOT pretend in that way. i am completely transparent in this regard. for me, it is simply an issue of honesty and integrity. what you see with me is what you get. this is why i have never fit into the mainstream and why i have not been able to work with other people for any length of time. i do not know how people can work with other people day in and day out.

i do not have an edit button in my brain. i say what comes to mind. I have tried to modify this in my life and i cannot regulate it. i am amazed when i hear of AS people being able to stick to jobs and work with others.



Greentea
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03 Jan 2009, 3:04 pm

But then how do you not die of destitution?


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millie
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03 Jan 2009, 3:33 pm

Quote:
Greentea wrote:
But then how do you not die of destitution?


oh.... i do work greentea, but just not WITH people, because i cannot. I am also a loud aspie and it is perceived that i am diffiuclt and too opinionated. I basically live by the safe tenet that everyone hates me and if anyone ends up liking me i am like a kid in a candy store and feel elated.

i have learned to work in the past ten years only. But i am an artist and i work from home and my overheads are tiny and i do most of my business stuff by phone (another skill learned in the past decade) or email. It has been a journey getting to this point!

oh...and i was destitute in my early years. my social skills and AS was so severe I could not live in society normally and i did not have the benefit of a family that could really help to the extent i needed it. destitution in australia will not kill you --- there are shelters and refuges and i lived on the streets here and there. I was less fearful o f destitution than the mainstream world which was like Dante's Inferno for me.

all in the past. i am happier now.

i admire your capacity to work with others and acheive it.