Twirly thoughts @@@ and other mental structures

Post Reply New Topic

So I was reading a book entitled "Women from another planet? : Our lives in the universe of autism." The book is a collection of stories and essays by women with ASDs. Which was probably evident to you from the title of the book, making the last sentence (and this one) somewhat superfluous. Anyway.

In one essay, the writer was talking about the structure of thought. About the way different people think. She mentioned something called helical thought, which is essentially when your thoughts operate in a spirally fashion. You know, you start off thinking about one thing, which leads onto something else, onto something else, onto something else, until eventually you get back to the thought you started with. But the process of all this association with different thoughts has caused you to think about the first thought slightly differently to the way you first thought about it. You are thinking the same thought, but on a different level.

I found this really interesting, because this is exactly the way that I think. It probably seems really repetitive and boring to the outside observer, because it just looks like the same stuff over and over again, but the details and nuances and so on are constantly changing. I get really excited when a train of thought leads me back to where I started and causes me to think about that starting point in a different way.

There are, of course, other ways that thought is structured (actually, this point didn't occur to me until it was pointed out in the essay - I thought my thought processes were universal - but that is typical of me. Woefully unaware of some things. ohwell). I suppose that some people think in one continuous straight line, not really returning to the same thought multiple times. In the essay, another structure of thought was mentioned - a sort of tree-like thought, where you have one idea, and there are multiple ideas that come from that, so you think about each idea individually. Then there are multiple ideas that come off each of the multiple ideas, so you think about each of them too. So the thought-structure would look sort of like a tree (of the family family, although clearly still belonging to the plant kingdom).

So, my questions for you are:

1.0: How do you think?
1.1: If you do not think in any of the ways I have described above, can you explain the structure of your thought?
1.2: If you do think in one of the ways outlined above, do you have anything to add to my descriptions?

2.0: Do you think that our neurological atypicality extends to the structure of our thoughts?
2.1: If so, why?
2.2: If not, why not?

3.0: Do you think the structure of your thoughts (or anybody else's thoughts for that matter) is beautiful/gives you pleasure?
3.1: If so, can you describe what precisely is so beautiful/pleasing about it?

4.0: Does anybody else find thinking to be an inherently pleasurable occupation?


...that's all I can think of right now.

i need to find this book, and I need to give a copy to my mom.

I have never thought to add a shape to my thinking processes...I tend to seem to have several types of thought processes going on at once....Twirly and tree-like..visual-flash-impulse thinking...stacked thinking...yeee...I am a mess.

So, my questions for you are:

1.0: How do you think?

Tree like I guess.


1.2: If you do think in one of the ways outlined above, do you have anything to add to my descriptions?

Not really, seems adequate.

2.0: Do you think that our neurological atypicality extends to the structure of our thoughts?

Yyea.

2.1: If so, why?

I know that others do not think like me, they are obviously using their thoughts differently and draw different conclusions from the same input

3.0: Do you think the structure of your thoughts (or anybody else's thoughts for that matter) is beautiful/gives you pleasure?

ohhh i can't get enough of myself and navel gazing! I've had to try and control it otherwise I'd spend my whole life in a world of thought.

3.1: If so, can you describe what precisely is so beautiful/pleasing about it?

hmm partly it's probably a narcissistic process, which is also why I think you have to control it. the process of using one's imagingation can be very pleasant, it's like dreaming I suppose, only you control the dream. I think when you are unable to relate to the group mind as other do, you relate to your own mind. i think it's called solipsism.

4.0: Does anybody else find thinking to be an inherently pleasurable occupation?

up until about 30something, then i realised i overthought everything and spent too much time living in my mind. i think you actually have to take action to make thinking useful.

QFT.

I think I have both helical thoughts and tree-like thoughts. The helical thoughts really bother me, but the tree-like ones are my constructive thoughts.

I know you seemed to target this towards women, but I'll bite anyway, even though I am male. I will use postpersons format. I kept some similar wording because DANG, my answers are just SO close to hers! I mean EVEN the age when we had to reconsider things, WOW!

So, my questions for you are:

1.0: How do you think?

I have generally called it tangential, but it COULD be called Tree like I guess.


1.2: If you do think in one of the ways outlined above, do you have anything to add to my descriptions?

Not really, seems adequate.

2.0: Do you think that our neurological atypicality extends to the structure of our thoughts?

Yeah.

2.1: If so, why?

I know that others don't think like I do. They are obviously using their thoughts differently and draw different conclusions from the same input. Heck, many don't even appreciate the related information I provide even after I tie it all together and sometimes even show a better way to do things.

3.0: Do you think the structure of your thoughts (or anybody else's thoughts for that matter) is beautiful/gives you pleasure?

I've had to try and control it otherwise I'd spend my whole life in a world of thought.

3.1: If so, can you describe what precisely is so beautiful/pleasing about it?

The process of using one's imagination can simply be very pleasant, like lucid dreaming. Frankly, I like it better when I can be more free with it.

4.0: Does anybody else find thinking to be an inherently pleasurable occupation?

Up until about 30something, then my boss started asking me to give yes or no answers to questions that had no such simple answer, etc... I ended up having to curtail it too much. STILL, I do it a LOT. I just wish my short term memory was better, and I basically took smaller bites, if you know what I mean.

i think that's 'mirroring' or an echo. nice to feel you're not alone!

consider it a compliment. I really do feel that way, etc... I really would have said much the same. I even referred to my thoughts as tangential here before and if the tangential thoughts have tangential thoughts, they WILL spread out like a tree.

Sorry if it was TOO close to yours, and used many of the same phrases, etc... I liked the way you put it.

An NT's observation on our thought process is that it 'seems' to be a random collection of different facts that are aside from a general point. But rather I think they just don't see how we are associating many different things together to reach a conclusion about something.

If you wrote down on a piece of paper an NT's thought process it would be linear. They would start with one topic, and below that would be something that directly relates to it, and something that relates to that, and then that. It goes straight down to the bottom.

We however it seems things will not only go straight down, but branching outward in every direction and each one of those things will have its own branches too, and the firther you go outward, the less it seems those facts have anything to do with anything to an NT, but to use we know they are still connected.

Its like two trees growing into each other (one tree right side up, another above it upside down). The starting topic is the base of the tree, then it branches outward, but eventually those branches will come back together and meet up in one point again.

Hope that was understandable to people other than myself. hah. hmm.

I do this, but I always thought it was normal.

1.0: How do you think?

I have two different types of thoughts: One type is generally verbal or based in understandable images, and mechanical, where I think about something and analyze many different aspects of it at once. I suppose this would be the tree-like thoughts you were referring to. The other type of thought is invariably visual and abstract in nature and based in emotion. It changes as I analyze it, becoming deeper, clearer, and more complicated as I think it, yet still remaining the same thought. That type sounds much like the helical thought you described.

2.0: Do you think that our neurological atypicality extends to the structure of our thoughts?

Absolutely.

2.1: If so, why?

Thought is really nothing more than a neurological function. Whenever the basis of a function changes, the function itself must also change.

3.0: Do you think the structure of your thoughts (or anybody else's thoughts for that matter) is beautiful/gives you pleasure?

I certainly enjoy them. My logical thoughts are extremely useful in helping me make sense of the universe around me, while my emotional thoughts are difficult to understand, but are very pretty. It's very difficult to describe the emotional thoughts, but I should point out that they make perfect sense to me though they are completely abstract. It's like trying to solve a problem by emoting at it; not very useful but it can certainly feel good.

4.0: Does anybody else find thinking to be an inherently pleasurable occupation?

Thinking is the single most enjoyable activity I can imagine. It allows me to understand the nature of reality with one type of thought, while giving me entertainment better than any movie or tv show with the other type.

My thoughts do tend to flow in a straight line, but not in the usual direction...
most nt's think from A to B to C to D. When I am asked to start at A and figure out what the next several letters are, my mind pops up a flash card that has the answer and I reverse engineer the answer from there. So I end up going from D backwards to A. sometimes I will jump several steps back then go forward again. So my thoughts end up being more like D B C A . or some kind of variation on that.
90% of the time the flash card appears, occaisionally it gets lost somewhere in the ether and my mind is unable to process the answer for even the simplest of questions. I have dropped out of tafe once or twice due to the humiliation of not being able to answer basic stuff when called on in front of the whole class.
It is amazing how many people are unable to understand these concepts when I try to explain. I sometimes even use diagrams.