Would you describe yourself as ruthless?

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i_wanna_blue
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05 Jan 2009, 2:48 am

Obviously I don't mean in terms of being some homicidal maniac :lol:

I am refering to the way you pursue your goals, and possibly exact your will upon others. I have noticed one thing with (most) people. They are very single minded, and don't care which methods they use to get to the top. I fit suits them to backstab, to intimidate or be canniving in order to prosper in some way, they will most likely do it. I am afraid, I am definately not like this. (I guess I am a conflict avoider). I say it in that tone, because it seems only people with this attitude seem to be more successful. (This is just my perception, and in no way am I stating this as fact).

I am interested to know how others feel about this, and how you would describe yourself...



Postperson
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05 Jan 2009, 4:04 am

I'm with you. I find the average person incredibly ruthless and callous when it comes to them getting what they want.

'exacting your will upon others' is normal to them. it's an everyday thing.

I fail to see the power game aspect of human interaction so I'm usually blindsided.



Last edited by Postperson on 05 Jan 2009, 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

ThisIsNotMyRealName
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05 Jan 2009, 4:05 am

Nasty people generally don't get too far.
Nice guys (not to be confused with weak guys) get a great deal further on the same level of ability.
I think you'll find the a$$holes tend to be more unpopular than you might suppose.



i_wanna_blue
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05 Jan 2009, 5:29 am

ThisIsNotMyRealName wrote:
Nasty people generally don't get too far.
Nice guys (not to be confused with weak guys) get a great deal further on the same level of ability.
I think you'll find the a$$holes tend to be more unpopular than you might suppose.


I'm not doubting their popularity (or lack thereof). However I can't seem to grasp the extent of their apparent success.



ThisIsNotMyRealName
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05 Jan 2009, 5:48 am

i_wanna_blue wrote:
ThisIsNotMyRealName wrote:
Nasty people generally don't get too far.
Nice guys (not to be confused with weak guys) get a great deal further on the same level of ability.
I think you'll find the a$$holes tend to be more unpopular than you might suppose.


I'm not doubting their popularity (or lack thereof). However I can't seem to grasp the extent of their apparent success.

Well, you can only gauge success as per a given level of ability - IOW, it's relative.
And for any given level of ability, a$$holes will be substantially less successful than non-a$$holes.
Unpopularity is also a function of $$-holiness.

Are you having a problem with someone else - or are you worried about your own prospects of success being hampered by others' opinions of you ?



i_wanna_blue
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05 Jan 2009, 7:04 am

^
No, I'm not having any problems with others and I am not concerned about my success due to others perception of me. Instead I am more concerned that my general lack of ambition and 'killer instinct' will mean I will be less likely to do what is needed to be successful ie. from my limited understanding, to be selfish...



ThisIsNotMyRealName
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05 Jan 2009, 7:11 am

i_wanna_blue wrote:
^
No, I'm not having any problems with others and I am not concerned about my success due to others perception of me. Instead I am more concerned that my general lack of ambition and 'killer instinct' will mean I will be less likely to do what is needed to be successful ie. from my limited understanding, to be selfish...

OK.
Well, treading on people to get where you want to go is likely to hamper you in the short and long term - so it reduces your chances of success.
There's a showbiz saying that goes 'Be careful who you tread on, on your way up - because you're sure to meet them on the way back down'.

You don't need to exercise ruthlessness to be successful - indeed, I'd say that the ruthless need to ditch that attribute to achieve success.



i_wanna_blue
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05 Jan 2009, 7:16 am

^
Thanks for the advice :D

I wouldn't like to tread on people of course, but I suppose my naivety and some horrible experiences has convinced me it's the only way. Stupid I guess...



b9
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05 Jan 2009, 8:05 am

i am not ruthless. i am used as a tool by ruthless people who have not the guts to do their own dirty work sometimes.

people at the businesses i work for think i am ruthless.
i work from home mainly, but often i have to go into my work offices for some reason (like meetings or on site installations and testing etc).

my bosses know that they have no idea where i am coming from, but they somehow trust my judgment.
they ask me for my opinion on whether some employees are fit for their jobs. they may ask me how intelligent i think an employee is, and if i consider them to be efficient in their roles.

i encounter these employees because they use the systems i write, and their questions to me, and the actions they incorrectly perform are always remembered by me.

i get very impatient with people that can not understand what they are supposed to do, and i wish for them to be replaced.

they are the rattling and defective parts in the engine of the business.
my job is easier if idiots do not perform insanely stupid actions because they are embarrassed to ring me to get my help.

an example that is one of many, is that once a trainee programmer girl was tasked with migrating the code of a system to the next year. it was a simple but important 4 year system i wrote that she was trained on. it was in 2008 .

so all she had to do was find all "2008's" in the code and replace them with "2009's", then find all "2007's" and replace with "2008's" , then replace "*2006" with "*2007" etc.

eg "use suppsales.incentives.suppsalesi2008" had to be replaced with
"use suppsales.incentives.suppsalesi2009"

this silly girl did it the other way around.
she replaced firstly all "2005" with "2006" and then she replaced all "2006" with "2007" and then she replaced all "2007's" with "2008" and then she replaced all "2008" with "2009".

needless to say that the entire code was only referring to 2009 after her foray.

i was asked by admin whether we should keep her and i said "absolutely not".
they asked me to give her the bad news.
i have an office there. the bosses told me to take her into my office and tell her she is fired.
so i called her in and said "yes well debbie you have been trying very hard".

debbie: well ....yeah i guess i try...
me: you should sit down.
d: so...... what's the reason for this? (she smiled and looked happy and expectant of a possible raise).
m: well you have successfully completed the classification's data input program.
d: yeah!! ! it was fun!! !
me: and you categorized 13,000 products last month into the item catalogue.
d: well...yeah..i'm pretty good at that kind of stuff..
me: well, the bosses have asked me to tell you...
d: (smiles in optimism and laughs)
me: ...erm ...asked me to tell you to clear out your desk as unfortunately they have to let you go.

well i was trying to soften the blow by saying the good things about her employ, but it backfired because she expected a raise for good work, and she got sacked instead as a fool.
she tried to go back and talk to the other staff, but when you are fired, you have to go promptly because you might sabotage the systems you worked on before you leave.
i called security and they came up rapidly and secured her elbows and supervised her clearing her effects from her module.

then she was ushered to the elevator and i had little expression on my face i was told and the rest of the office hated me from that point because they liked her.



CockneyRebel
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05 Jan 2009, 10:33 am

Is being ruthless and being rebellious the same thing? I'm wondering, because I'd rather keep the Sid look and pick up litter, than wear a uniform and work in what most people, not me, would consider a better job.


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Sora
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05 Jan 2009, 10:39 am

I am.

However, ruthlessness gets you no true friends and no true popularity if you don't know when to keep in check and be the compassionate and sweet sort of person.

Most people don't know how to balance it out.

It's safe to assume most sweet people aren't exactly educated in the art of backstabbing though they attempt it anyway and that most who're ruthless jerks will not be able to pretend that they can be much else than jerks for more than a fleeting moment of time.


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05 Jan 2009, 10:52 am

I like to avoid conflict. However, if I have a reason to force my will onto someone, I can do it much better than the average NT. Every person that I have tried to bend to my will in the last 4 years was successfully bent to my will. That was a very small number, and one of which was someone who was very strong willed. I do not like bending people to my will, it is not something that is fun for either me or them. However, if necessary for whatever reason (preserving my own will most likely) I will bend someone. I do prefer the path where there is as little confilct as possible and manipulation is just the last resort to avoid full out conflict.



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05 Jan 2009, 11:43 am

Ruthless? Maybe. I'll give you three choices:

1. Lead me.

2. Follow me.

3. Get out of my way.

Capisché?


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Sora
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05 Jan 2009, 11:46 am

Fnord wrote:
Ruthless? Maybe. I'll give you three choices:


I was under the impression that's called generous! I might need to revise my priorities I guess haha


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mosez
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05 Jan 2009, 12:00 pm

No, I think I'm the kind who avoid conflicts. When I was a kid, I allways chose the little apple before the big, if I got the first choice.
But I was ruthless in one thing, pursuing the growth of my coin collection. I raided stores, buses and others, wich I knew had coins. Then they had to look through all the coins in their possession, compare them to my list, and then I swapped them for more plain coins. I actually came across many rare ones that way. This took time for honest working ppl, but I had my way of talking them into what I wanted. I must have been a real pain in the ass for them, but I just kept on doing it. I also cheated other collectors, by swapping less valuable coins for better ones.
I guess everyone has a bit ruthlessness in them, if the cause is important enough to battle for.


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05 Jan 2009, 12:21 pm

mosez wrote:
No, I think I'm the kind who avoid conflicts. When I was a kid, I allways chose the little apple before the big, if I got the first choice.
But I was ruthless in one thing, pursuing the growth of my coin collection. I raided stores, buses and others, wich I knew had coins. Then they had to look through all the coins in their possession, compare them to my list, and then I swapped them for more plain coins. I actually came across many rare ones that way. This took time for honest working ppl, but I had my way of talking them into what I wanted. I must have been a real pain in the ass for them, but I just kept on doing it. I also cheated other collectors, by swapping less valuable coins for better ones.
I guess everyone has a bit ruthlessness in them, if the cause is important enough to battle for.


Wow, someone else with a coin collection. Sweet! I got a lot of rarer coins working at mcdonalds, I even have 2 Canadian $2 bills that people had paid with and an American JFK 50 cent piece. I have also come across strange foriegn currencies including some Japanese and Australian coins. I once had a customer try to pay with a danadian $20 bill from the 70s. I had to talk him out of it, simply because I didn't have a $20 in my wallet that was new enough to swap it with, and it was so old we weren't allowed to accept it. I still wish I woulda had a 20 in my wallet to have gotten that bill that day... One of my favourite coins is my penny that I am not sure where it is from, but is over a century old.