If AS is or isn't disorder...

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... then what solution did you come up with for the dilemma that follows that official recognition as a disorder or as a non-disorder?

Do you actually think of that when you discuss whether AS is a disorder or not a disorder?

I think we should. It's part of the argument.

Right now AS is recognised a disorder that in some countries gets you no support and in others gets you the same support as a person with a diagnosis of classical autism/childhood autism/autistic disorder.

Fact is that there remains a huge group of those with AS who do need this support in their lives.
And that with the diagnoses on rise these says, a new group of people who do not require disability supports also has appeared and grows fast.

It's not always those who are impaired that think of AS as a disorder just as not all of those who're not impaired by their AS think that AS should not be thought of as a disorder.

Yet how I see it is that whether AS is officially recognised as a disorder or not ultimately concerns only these 2 groups.

If AS would not be disorder any longer, those in need of support would not receive it. To demand that AS becomes removed from the DSM doesn't sound like a good plan to me if that is the very basis for you to be able to claim the medical, therapeutic, financial (so on) services you need.

I'm not really great with the counter arguments why AS should not be disorder besides that there are people who are just plain not disordered by their Asperger's. But I'm sure you folks can provide plenty more arguments for both sides.

So how to make everyone happy?

How to solve this?

Tell me your solution for the spectrum.

disorder simply means bad(or improper) order. From an NT standpoint, that is certainly true in their eyes. Order is in the eye of the beholder. The dewey decimal system might appear to be in disorder. If you don't take categories into account, it may not be any order at all. Yet it DOES have an order.

mmm i dont mind aspergers being called a disorder its just i would like nts to show some more respect towards us perhaps people should make some awareness thing about it that can persuade nts to be more respectfull and not think were inhuman or something and nts should see were both the same not superior or inferior

AS is autism. Autism is a serious developmental disorder. AS comes under pervasive development disorder.
I recieve the Disability Support Pension for AS. That means I am as impaired by AS I would not be able to work a minimum of 8 hours per week. Pisses me off that there is an argument that it is not a disorder.

Technically speaking, you're not supposed to be diagnosed with AS unless you're significantly impaired in some way. Of course, diagnoses can be wrong, and people can be borderline. They're just going to roll AS into autism, anyways, next version of the DSM, so I think it's academic.

But at the same time I can see a need to be able to discuss personality differences effectively, and AS as a concept may be helping people with that, even if there's no significant impairment. So perhaps we need a better vocabulary for describing people who are different and how they are discriminated against.

Certainly gifted people are discriminated against for being different. As are more unconventional types, highly sensitive people, and introverts. What other personality traits look like AS? Extreme low neuroticism? Schizoid/schizotypal?

BellaDonna has it right - AS is autism and autism is a serious thing.

Any debate over whether AS is a disorder is purely a semantic one over the meaning of disorder and the consequence of calling AS a disorder.

Where the debate finds more serious fuel is whether AS is a disability. Not all autistic people are equally affected. It is difficult to imagine any reasonable person saying that someone who is unable to work eight hours per week is not disabled, at least to some extent, regardless of the reason.

It is frequently discussed here whether AS is a disability. Ultimately, that depends on each individual's particular manifestation, and often on their attitude as well. In my case, I do not consider AS a disability, as I try not to think in terms of "I can't because...". I approach things from the perspective that "It might be difficult for me to ..., and I will have to work harder than others, but I'll do it anyway". I recognise some people are unable to do this. In my particular case, there are situations where I need accommodation from others - to "meet me half-way"; in these cases, AS is a handicap but not a disability. Again, a semantic distinction, using now-antiquated, politically incorrect but ultimately meaningful terminology, but the fine distictions in meaning do need to be made whatever we wind up calling them.

The one thing where we should be able to agree is that autism is not a little thing to be taken lightly.

I have often thought about this. After being diagnosed with AS as an adult this past November at the age of 44, I felt relieved because it finally made me realize who I was. But I also knew I had been labelled as gifted in high school. Today, I teach the gifted. I know that giftedness and AS can look alike. Was I sure I was AS? Could I be AS and gifted combined? And what about just gifted? I had looked at these things before my appointment to be diagnosed. Looking at all the criteria and comparison/contrasts between those conditions I clearly saw that I was AS. But then we look at the quote above that says you are supposed to be significantly impaired in some way. For me I saw it as social. I do have impairment there. But there is something else that I didn't tell the expert that diagnosed me---and I should have told him---I just didn't think about it. My mother had to lay out my clothes each day all the way until I was married at the age of 25---then my wife had to do it. I do get my clothes now. And, my mother had to wash, dry , and comb my hair until I was 25, then my wife did it. Now I can do it. I could take showers/bath without difficulty when I was growing up.

This was slightly embarrasing to talk about. But, I feel like I need to address it. I really want to know where I fall on this spectrum. Is AS me, or am I HFA, or what? All my life I have been lucky. I wasn't bullied at school because my father taught there and protected me. I got a continuing contract at the school where I teach because the board failed to act by the deadline to not renew me after I got my master's degree. The list goes on. But without this incredible luck, I don't know where I would be. I would be interested in any comments on this---I am still trying to know myself.

This thread ties in a lot with Sora's later thread. Like Glider I was diagnosed very late in life and as a result when through a fairly long evaluation process, probably as a guinea pig in some ways. If I had been diagnosed prior to 94 I would have been autistic and maybe 75% along the scale towards HFA, a term I hate by the way. As it was I was diagnosed AS becasue I did manage to have a working life. But as a child I was severly different in that I was so withdrawn I could not participate in routine life events like school where I was considered a very 'slow learner' bordering on ret*d. Ironically I was actually an exceptional child years ahead of my classmates but school was boring and freightening. What we 'present' is often quite different than who or what we actually may be. Today I have significant differences from a 'regular' person but have managed over time to just operate well even having these differences. The danger lays in letting people who have no first hand experience with our conditions to define what our conditions actually are.

This thread ties in a lot with Sora's later thread. Like Glider I was diagnosed very late in life and as a result when through a fairly long evaluation process, probably as a guinea pig in some ways. If I had been diagnosed prior to 94 I would have been autistic and maybe 75% along the scale towards HFA, a term I hate by the way. As it was I was diagnosed AS becasue I did manage to have a working life. But as a child I was severly different in that I was so withdrawn I could not participate in routine life events like school where I was considered a very 'slow learner' bordering on ret*d. Ironically I was actually an exceptional child years ahead of my classmates but school was boring and freightening. What we 'present' is often quite different than who or what we actually may be. Today I have significant differences from a 'regular' person but have managed over time to just operate well even having these differences. The danger lays in letting people who have no first hand experience with our conditions to define what our conditions actually are.

impairment vs disability,some may have impairment but not be classed under disability because they're not affected enough,others who are more impaired get classed under disability,and some choose not to use disabled on themself anyway.

there is too much fuss from people all over the disability spectrum over the word disability,it does not mean are less human,overall less able as a person etc,it means the impairments have got significantly affects things a person does on a day to day basis-this is how am understand the official definition of disability-which is written in the DDA/disability discrimination act in a bigger form.


Sora,
am think there should be a ASD-personality type-or unimpaired section,for all those who have some form of autism but are not impaired/or veryy little impairment/.
am think instead of always telling NTs to go and learn about ASD,autists should first learn more about all the different levels and mixes of those with their exact form as well as the whole spectrum before telling non autists they know nothing of ASD,as it is so common to see on WP and else where users assume their own experience is speaking for the whole spectrum or everyone with their exact form of aut.

but then again,why do people who are not impaired/have little of it need to be officially labelled,as even if its just a personality type label it would lead them to discrimination and all sorts of bad stuff,the good is supposed to be stronger than bad when it comes to being diagnosed with something.

Auism is defenetely a disorder, because it can affect how INTENCELY certurn things/intrests can affect people...however, there could be worse out there (I may just be PROOF of it, too...).

It's about time people smarten up, and, learn about--and try to be more overall ACCEPTING---of those that are autistic. Running away and ignorence are NO LONGER options....

It's not like most aspies are seriusly 'danguress' or anything, anyways. Sure...we have our quirks. But it's not like we go around hurting other purposely or anything. In fact...a lot of aspies are probably very gental people, but i'm not sure....

But if NTs don't start being more 'accepting' soon...then it may mean the end of the human race is soon to come, because worse than Autism is starting to develup. And you all already know a clear example...soo thus said.

If it DOES mean labeling Autism as 'no longer' a 'dissorder'...soo be it. We must remember that no matter WHAT, NTs gennerally just aren't that smart, or 'accepting' of what scare's them.

And when it come's to getting 'help'...us aspies still got each other, soo, why does it even matter anymore?

Of course...there are still those with speach dissorder.....


I'll addmit that I am a little vain. But I can't help but focuss on how much WORSE I may be than many of you....and how little help can be done.

But i'm NOT gonna give in. To ANYONE. For I am still my own person...giving in would probably kill me.....

Even if I DO strive for 'cuteness', to a deathly amount.....

~cmastler

It's not a disorder. It's a spectrum - more accurately than that misplaced, though on-the-right-track autistic spectrum - and, as such, cannot be a disorder, as a whole.
A large minority , I'd estimate about 33%, are impaired enough to be considered affected by the disorder element of the spectrum, though fewer would actually be "deep" enough into that element to require assistance or significant assistance.
Bear in mind; with the current, and grossly misleading, detrimental effect based identification, this fool idea of the entire genetic groups of AS being nothing more than a disease to be diagnosed, means that most people who are AS do not realize it.

I imagine that there are a huge number of people who have Aspergers or even HFA and have no idea about it.

yup...and I was one of those for about 48 years. It's kind of hard to spot the symptoms once you're grown up (at least as far as developmental disorders). In fact, I'm not sure they're doing much serious research on adult AS.

I think we've only scratched the surface of AS, and in the coming decades, a lot of research will turn out to be incorrect, and a lot of unknown facts will come up. But that's true of most avenues of research anyway...

AS is not classified as a disorder but as a combination of symptoms that resemble a disorder or disease. So while it may not resemble a disorder anymore, it may resemble a disease or something else.



Just being a li'l cheeky.

Well, actually, Asperger's syndrome is an invention of Lorna Wing, who is a certifiable idiot.