So, Simon [from Mercury Rising] has Asperger's?

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Danielismyname
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21 Jan 2009, 8:21 pm

From one of Lorna Wing's newest papers:

Quote:
Asperger’s syndrome seems to exert a fascination for
the lay public, even those not personally involved. The
evidence for this is the appearance of characters with
Asperger’s syndrome in movies such as ‘‘Mercury
Rising’’, television plays, including episodes in popular
series, and literary fiction. The recent novel (Haddon,
2003) titled ‘‘The Curious Incident of the Dog in the
Night Time’’, in which the narrator is a teenager with
the syndrome, has achieved remarkable general popularity
in the UK, even to the extent of being the subject
of a question in a radio quiz show. Such characters
were depicted in fiction long before the syndrome was
named. As Uta Frith (2003) pointed out, Sherlock
Holmes was the perfect example. The enduring popularity
of characters of this kind is further proof of the
fascination that the syndrome exerts, which has
probably been enhanced by giving it a name.


Fascinating.



garyww
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21 Jan 2009, 8:26 pm

what idiotic mishmash from an educated person.


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21 Jan 2009, 8:29 pm

Simon didn't have AS, he was autistic, low functioning, severely autistic.


I had troubles understanding the article.



garyww
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21 Jan 2009, 8:32 pm

Sherlock was a fictional character, as was Simon. How in the world does this stuff get crdibility in the press?


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21 Jan 2009, 8:51 pm

Well...I guess in the articles defense...I could create a character who displayed every aspect of, let's say, depression. The reader could then safely conclude that the character is depressed.

(That was a terrible example, but you get the point, yes?)

The same thing could possibly be applied to asperger's, if enough information is given. Then again, your conclusion could be dead wrong, but it's not likely.

Sherlock Holmes (who is a fictional character I've admired since I was 13) is a good example of someone with asperger's, even though he might not necessarily have it. He was seen as cold hearted, never displayed emotion, had an obsession with what is "right" or strove to deduce correctly. You would never know it, but he didn't come up with his deductions like it was nothing. It wasn't that he was some sort of crazy genius (though he did pay a great attention to detail). He lived in his head more than in the outside world.

Those are just some things I observed. I'm not in any way giving credit to the article, I'm just trying to shed light on the subject.



garyww
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21 Jan 2009, 8:57 pm

What I'm saying is that this type of reinforcement from professionals about fictional stories only goes to perpetuate the old sterotypes and really brings nothing new into the equation. As a result we are all seen as either Sherlock or Simon. It's been that way for about forty years and this will not help to change the public image of 'differences'.


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neshamaruach
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21 Jan 2009, 8:59 pm

It sounds like she never saw the movie. How else to explain a statement that far off the mark?


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Bodhi
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21 Jan 2009, 8:59 pm

garyww wrote:
What I'm saying is that this type of reinforcement from professionals about fictional stories only goes to perpetuate the old sterotypes and really brings nothing new into the equation. As a result we are all seen as either Sherlock or Simon. It's been that way for about forty years and this will not help to change the public image of 'differences'.


Oh! Now I see what you're saying.

That is a problem :?



Danielismyname
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21 Jan 2009, 9:13 pm

As some may be unaware, Lorna Wing is the one who "created" the current definition of Asperger's (i.e., she's the expert).

It looks like she's going the route of Attwood and co (well, they're going on hers), i.e., if you gain communicative speech and/or don't have global mental retardation, you have Asperger's, if not, Autism.

The article is titled, "Reflections on opening Pandora's Box".

You know, I can see it (Simon with AS, as he does have communicative speech, and he doesn't have global mental retardation), it's just that he's of a make where'd I'd label as simply Autism (Classic, Kanner's Autistic Disorder, whatever you want to call it).



neshamaruach
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21 Jan 2009, 9:20 pm

Danielismyname wrote:
As some may be unaware, Lorna Wing is the one who "created" the current definition of Asperger's (i.e., she's the expert).

It looks like she's going the route of Attwood and co (well, they're going on hers), i.e., if you gain communicative speech and/or don't have global mental retardation, you have Asperger's, if not, Autism.

The article is titled, "Reflections on opening Pandora's Box".

You know, I can see it (Simon with AS, as he does have communicative speech, and he doesn't have global mental retardation), it's just that he's of a make where'd I'd label as simply Autism (Classic, Kanner's Autistic Disorder, whatever you want to call it).


I just don't see Simon as having AS at all. I mean, I was a kid once, and I remember myself at that age. It just doesn't fit. Maybe the presentation is different for a boy, but I've seen boys with AS, and they are much higher functioning.

Do you ever get the feeling that these researchers have stopped talking to autistic people and are just talking to one another?
The gap between their definitions and our experience seems to be widening.


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garyww
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21 Jan 2009, 9:25 pm

I felt like the professionals made a separation from the rest of us beginning about six years ago.


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21 Jan 2009, 9:35 pm

garyww wrote:
I felt like the professionals made a separation from the rest of us beginning about six years ago.


What was the watershed moment six years ago?


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Danielismyname
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21 Jan 2009, 9:36 pm

It could be the whole, "mild" and "severe" thingy that some apply to Asperger's, whereas those like Rain Man/Simon would be "severe", and the other end where it gets closer to "normal" will be "mild".

I know she has a daughter with Autism; perhaps her daughter is of the nonverbal and/or mentally retarded make, and she is comparing them to her and those like her (I'm assuming that Lorna Wing would see many individuals with an ASD).

Simon is about the same as me (I lack the special skill, curses), and I've been said to have Asperger's by Attwood, but also Autism by a couple of other professionals. I guess that answers the question.



garyww
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21 Jan 2009, 9:51 pm

about six years ago you could actually see a shift in even professional papers to a more touchy-feely thing about autism and the first hints of calling everything 'condition' instead of 'syndrome'. It was softening of a harder line and mostly mishmash


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21 Jan 2009, 10:30 pm

It's probably a scientific 'fashion'. I remember when I was in college in the late 70s, 'autism' was the 'hot' field for psychiatry and psychology. Over time, it started to work on more variances of spectrum behavior, etc.

I guess it's a 'hot' field again. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now no one studies it much any more, which would be a shame.

It's 'publish or perish' in the professorial world. As long as peer review accepts it, it becomes 'science'. Whether it's accurate or not...