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msinglynx
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02 Feb 2009, 6:04 pm

I was at this little restaurant with this guy I met online the other day. So, we were, you know, getting to know each other, and I was telling him about autism and wrongplanet (we were discussing our favorite forums), and then we went on talking about other things.
So eventually the waitress came over for the 4 time (HE kept sending her away cuz he wanted to talk & hadn't decided yet) & finally we were ready to order. Anyway, most of this time she had been standing up, looking down at us & I was kinda looking sideways and up at her, but after I was telling HIM about being autistic when she came to take our order she crouched down at my level and gave me this severe deep eyed stare that freaked/surprised me so much I could barely get the words out. And she got up while HE was telling her what he wanted.
At the moment I was just confused. I know that parents and teachers and doctors sometimes do that to kids to teach them to look, but I am very damn far from being a kid. And I sure as hell dont appreciate someone forcing me to look at them, especially becuz I know it would have been considered rude not to, but I found HER behavior far ruder & innapropriate. Even if she over heard our conversation she should not have acted on it when I did not share it with her & she sure as hell shouldnt have trapped me into looking at her. At my age (and I dont care if its "wrong") it's my f*****g RIGHT to look or not look at someone & to choose when & how to do it. The ironic thing is I probably would have done it at least once before leaving, but she upset/scared me so much I didn't look at her for the rest of the night.

What do you guys think? Is it appropriate to try & force an adult to look someone in the eyes? Is it appropriate to force a child? Is it just me or was it rude? How would you have reacted?



anna-banana
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02 Feb 2009, 6:15 pm

it was rude. I wouldn't tip her.


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Emor
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02 Feb 2009, 6:18 pm

The only time someone ever did that too me was when I was actually going to the place where they check up on my Aspergers(i.e changing/recording how server/unsevere my Aspergers is, checking how school is, etc) when there was someone else filling in for the new person, and she then said, 'You don't like eye contact do you?', and I was just looking around the room trying to avoid her face since I feel like I'm staring when it's with strangers, and then she actually got down lower forcing me to look at her and I just said, 'No.'
I didn't really like the way she did it, and it made me have a negative view upon her, but yeah.
EMZ=]



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02 Feb 2009, 6:22 pm

She sounds rude and condesending.


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2ukenkerl
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02 Feb 2009, 6:27 pm

anna-banana wrote:
it was rude. I wouldn't tip her.


You can say THAT again! If I were in that position, and had my way, I would just get up and WALK OUT. HECK, I might even talk to the manager. I don't care if someone is TWO, she shouldn't treat them like that! I hate parents and "teachers" doing that, and others just have NO PLACE AT ALL!! !! !!



msinglynx
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02 Feb 2009, 6:30 pm

thats what I thought (rude & condescending), she was quite polite & "nice" but that really made me dislike her. I hid it as much as I could but I mentioned it to the guy I was with. He hadn't noticed anything odd at all, but I noticed he had no problem looking her in the eyes, either, I on the other hand, was trying to crawl backwards thru my seat.

And anyway, who the hell's to say what is normal eye gaze or not??! I dont see what the heck is wrong with not wanting to look at someone, I can see her just as well from the corner of my eyes...

Grr grrgrr

(you see, I thought I had the eye gaze thing down, before I used to look at peoples lips, but then a guy thought I liked him becuz of that, and then I figured out if I stare at their lashes/brows/between their eyes, they think I am looking at them when I'm really not, but someone called me on that too & yelled at me for being rude & NOW I dont know where the heck to look! GRR so I am looking at faces less & my "eye gaze" is more noticeably "off" grr...)



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02 Feb 2009, 6:34 pm

I think good eye contact means looking people in the eye, but allowing yourself to "wander" for a few split seconds, so as not to look like you're staring.



2ukenkerl
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02 Feb 2009, 6:45 pm

msinglynx wrote:
thats what I thought (rude & condescending), she was quite polite & "nice" but that really made me dislike her. I hid it as much as I could but I mentioned it to the guy I was with. He hadn't noticed anything odd at all, but I noticed he had no problem looking her in the eyes, either, I on the other hand, was trying to crawl backwards thru my seat.

And anyway, who the hell's to say what is normal eye gaze or not??! I dont see what the heck is wrong with not wanting to look at someone, I can see her just as well from the corner of my eyes...

Grr grrgrr

(you see, I thought I had the eye gaze thing down, before I used to look at peoples lips, but then a guy thought I liked him becuz of that, and then I figured out if I stare at their lashes/brows/between their eyes, they think I am looking at them when I'm really not, but someone called me on that too & yelled at me for being rude & NOW I dont know where the heck to look! GRR so I am looking at faces less & my "eye gaze" is more noticeably "off" grr...)


She wasn't polite OR nice! If someone is nice, they will be polite, and a polite person will let you have your space! She was INVADING your space. The way you describe it, it would be considered invasion EVEN by traditionally eastern european cultures which, according to what I have heard, traditionally have some of the SMALLEST spaces. Americans have had the largest. Of course, even *I*, an American that probably feels AT LEAST as strongly as you do, CONSTANTLY have my space invaded. That happened JUST TODAY! TWICE! I'm sorry to hear about your problems though.



msinglynx
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02 Feb 2009, 6:45 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I think good eye contact means looking people in the eye, but allowing yourself to "wander" for a few split seconds, so as not to look like you're staring.


meh every time I've tried the wandering thing I get accused of lying :X



KazigluBey
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02 Feb 2009, 6:55 pm

msinglynx wrote:
What do you guys think? Is it appropriate to try & force an adult to look someone in the eyes? Is it appropriate to force a child? Is it just me or was it rude? How would you have reacted?


I personally think it's hard to say one way or the other--at least from what I've read. I mean, was she trying to be rude or intentionally ignoring standard protocol? Or did she over hear your conversation and attempt to do something good and have it backfire?

Seems to me that non-autistic people can make the same type of mistakes as autistic people.

Personally, I wouldn't have withheld a tip from the woman as it does not justice to the situation. Or if you do withhold a tip, tell them exactly why so that you've done justice to the situation and not just exacted futile revenge.



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02 Feb 2009, 6:58 pm

If his was chimpanzee socitey she wopuld have been torn apart


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zen_mistress
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02 Feb 2009, 7:51 pm

Tip her, but leave only one cent on the tray. Nothing annoys a waitress more than being tipped one cent.

And if anyone trys this again, go cross eyed. They will soon give up because they wont be able to continue their staring.



2ukenkerl
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02 Feb 2009, 8:04 pm

Eggman wrote:
If his was chimpanzee socitey she wopuld have been torn apart


You're right about THAT! I haven't lived THAT long, but the whole world seems topsy turvy. ESPECIALLY in the US! If I were a manager there, and I heard about this, I would have just told the waitress that your bill would be coming out of her pay, and she should LEAVE! That is just unconscionable!



go_around
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02 Feb 2009, 8:37 pm

I have been told that people in the service industry (especially people who depend heavily on tips) are taught to make good eye contact whenever possible, as this establishes some kind of bond between server and patron and increases the chances of a good tip. Apparently they don't also mention that if you have to really go out of your way for it (like doing a kneeling stare-down), you're probably crossing your patron's personal boundaries and will get exactly the opposite response.

(I don't know for sure this is true because I've definitely never had this kind of job and never will, but it's easy to see how through NT eyes this would be a perfectly logical thing to think. Especially given that there is no real nuance to it, and no thought given to how it might not always apply :roll: )



Aalto
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02 Feb 2009, 8:52 pm

Punch her in the arteries.



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02 Feb 2009, 9:50 pm

go_around wrote:
I have been told that people in the service industry (especially people who depend heavily on tips) are taught to make good eye contact whenever possible, as this establishes some kind of bond between server and patron and increases the chances of a good tip. Apparently they don't also mention that if you have to really go out of your way for it (like doing a kneeling stare-down), you're probably crossing your patron's personal boundaries and will get exactly the opposite response.

(I don't know for sure this is true because I've definitely never had this kind of job and never will, but it's easy to see how through NT eyes this would be a perfectly logical thing to think. Especially given that there is no real nuance to it, and no thought given to how it might not always apply :roll: )


um acutally in ny at places like T.G.I. Fridays they do that they even bring pillows with them. Its kind of an odd pratice and makes me want to laugh but it may be what they were taught to do. It may not have been a reaction



Last edited by Abangyarudo on 02 Feb 2009, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.