*Starch, or the Decline and Fall of the AS Organism!*

Page 11 of 12 [ 180 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

15 Mar 2009, 3:46 am

philosopherBoi wrote:
I tried it for six months, and each day I got a tad more pissy until I stopped then suddenly I wasn't even 1/20 as moody.

That's very interesting proof that one man's meat is another man's poison. ( Thank you for finally answering my question ! :) )

It's why food-intolerance is such an important issue; for instance some people eating supposedly hyper-healthy diets full of wholegrain-everything end up iller than on a junk diet because they are intolerant of wheat.

And why the argument in favour of starch being digestible because "the majority seem to handle it" is so utterly fallacious.

.



philosopherBoi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,255

15 Mar 2009, 3:52 am

ouinon wrote:
philosopherBoi wrote:
I tried it for six months, and each day I got a tad more pissy until I stopped then suddenly I wasn't even 1/20 as moody.

That's very interesting proof that one man's meat is another man's poison. ( Thank you for finally answering my question ! :) )

It's why food-intolerance is such an important issue; for instance some people eating supposedly hyper-healthy diets full of wholegrain-everything end up iller than on a junk diet because they are intolerant of wheat.

And why the argument in favour of starch being digestible because "the majority seem to handle it" is so utterly fallacious.

.


Put it in simple terms, I am sleepy, suicidal and very upset I can't process anything complex.


_________________
When Jesus Christ said love thy neighbor he was not making a suggestion he was stating the law of god.


ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

15 Mar 2009, 4:06 am

philosopherBoi wrote:
Also you shouldn't forget we need bacteria in our gut that are essential for our health and for immune system to work properly.

Some of the bacteria in our gut are essential for the digestion and metabolisation of foods, but very definitely not all.

The millions of gram-negative, and other pathogenic bacteria currently living in many people's guts, ( tens of thousands x more in AS guts than in NT ), are having a party at our expense, ( feeding on the complex carbohydrates which we eat but which many of us have difficulty digesting because of different enzyme production ), producing tons of waste material, ( endotoxins called lipopolysaccharides ), which trigger immune-system activity, and chronic immune-system activity produces depression, anxiety, fatigue, brain-fog/loss of cognitive function, among many other "fun" things, which society seems almost to have got used to, it is so widespread.

.



philosopherBoi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,255

15 Mar 2009, 6:12 am

ouinon wrote:
philosopherBoi wrote:
Also you shouldn't forget we need bacteria in our gut that are essential for our health and for immune system to work properly.

Some of the bacteria in our gut are essential for the digestion and metabolisation of foods, but very definitely not all.

The millions of gram-negative, and other pathogenic bacteria currently living in many people's guts, ( tens of thousands x more in AS guts than in NT ), are having a party at our expense, ( feeding on the complex carbohydrates which we eat but which many of us have difficulty digesting because of different enzyme production ), producing tons of waste material, ( endotoxins called lipopolysaccharides ), which trigger immune-system activity, and chronic immune-system activity produces depression, anxiety, fatigue, brain-fog/loss of cognitive function, among many other "fun" things, which society seems almost to have got used to, it is so widespread.

.


80% of the bacteria in your gut are symbiotic in nature unless someone happens like you take to many antibiotics and wipe kill to many of the good ones.

Now I do find fault in saying there is more constant inflammation in autistic people's GI tracks than NT's GI tracks. I say this because it would mean we would be at a much higher risk for heart attacks, and strokes because inflammation increases the risk for both. Look at your gums doctors recommend flossing your teeth not only to reduce the risk of losing your teeth, but also to cut back your chances for having a heart attack or stroke.


_________________
When Jesus Christ said love thy neighbor he was not making a suggestion he was stating the law of god.


ephemerella
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,335

15 Mar 2009, 7:29 am

philosopherBoi wrote:
ouinon wrote:
philosopherBoi wrote:
Also you shouldn't forget we need bacteria in our gut that are essential for our health and for immune system to work properly.

Some of the bacteria in our gut are essential for the digestion and metabolisation of foods, but very definitely not all.

The millions of gram-negative, and other pathogenic bacteria currently living in many people's guts, ( tens of thousands x more in AS guts than in NT ), are having a party at our expense, ( feeding on the complex carbohydrates which we eat but which many of us have difficulty digesting because of different enzyme production ), producing tons of waste material, ( endotoxins called lipopolysaccharides ), which trigger immune-system activity, and chronic immune-system activity produces depression, anxiety, fatigue, brain-fog/loss of cognitive function, among many other "fun" things, which society seems almost to have got used to, it is so widespread.

.


80% of the bacteria in your gut are symbiotic in nature unless someone happens like you take to many antibiotics and wipe kill to many of the good ones.

Now I do find fault in saying there is more constant inflammation in autistic people's GI tracks than NT's GI tracks. I say this because it would mean we would be at a much higher risk for heart attacks, and strokes because inflammation increases the risk for both. Look at your gums doctors recommend flossing your teeth not only to reduce the risk of losing your teeth, but also to cut back your chances for having a heart attack or stroke.


I think that what happens with the low starch/sugar free diets is that there is a die off of YEAST. Most of the gut problems people complain of due to high starch/sugar diets is because they cause what is called "yeast overgrowth" and a "candida infection" in the gut. This is a HUGE topic, and one that has a lot of impact on the severity of my AS symptoms, so I am cutting and pasting the reply I started into a new thread.



ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

15 Mar 2009, 11:44 am

Huge reply, sorry, but there was a lot to address. :oops:

ephemerella wrote:
philosopherBoi wrote:
80% of the bacteria in your gut are symbiotic in nature unless you take too many antibiotics and kill too many of the good ones. I find fault in saying there is more constant inflammation in autistic people's GI tracks than NT's GI tracks.
What happens with the low starch/sugar free diets is that there is a die off of YEAST. Most of the gut problems people complain of due to high starch/sugar diets is because they cause what is called "yeast overgrowth" and a "candida infection" in the gut. This is a HUGE topic, and one that has a lot of impact on the severity of my AS symptoms.

I agree that most of the bacteria are beneficial, just not all, and that seeing as everybody's guts contain enough bacteria and endotoxins etc to kill us 50 times over if they were released all at once into our bloodstream even 20% of them being harmful to health is worth taking into account.

What studies are finding is that, among other things, the presence of endotoxins, and also exotoxins, ( produced by bacteria, of all kinds, with both stimulatory and suppressive effects on the immune-system ), have an effect on the permeability of the gut-barrier, determining for instance how many undigested proteins, ( including opioid peptides ), enter directly into the blood and so affect the brain.

Apparently a study by Jyonouchi et al. a couple of years ago, found that AS with GI problems seem to have an "innate" ( at the time of testing anyway ), immune hyper-reactivity to bacterial endotoxins, and that this is causing chronic inflammation of the intestines.

This might explain not only many AS' intolerance of foods containing opioid peptides ( dairy and wheat ), and certain other proteins, ( which then get through the gut-barrier ), but also why a diet low in complex-carbohydrates, ( some of the enzymes for digesting which are produced in lower quantities by AS ), may be helpful, because it reduces the number of bacteria significantly, and so potentially the inflammation, etc.

I also think that it is important not to underestimate how much damage is routinely done to the friendly/protective "gut-flora" by antibiotics in our society, ( especially as we not only ingest them as medicines, but also when we eat industrially raised animals/meat ), and also the effect that the pill, and other hormone treatments have on gut flora.

I also read that apparently shock, trauma, and stress causes blood to be directed away from the gut to the brain and heart. Studies ( Deitch ) have shown that this reduction of blood flow to the guts results in a lowering of the gut-barrier, making it less reliable for however long the stress/trauma continues.

The intestines, the Enteric Nervous System, and the Vagus Nerve afferents ( from the guts to the brain ), are receiving more and more attention, as people/scientists realise just how much impact the gut has on immune-system activity and brain-function.

There really is a lot of evidence for a gut-brain-behaviour connection, which is, at the very least, worth investigating ( with exclusion-diets etc ), if you suffer from chronic/repeated depression, anxiety, fatigue/lethargy, mood-disorder, brain-fog/loss of cognitive function, irritability, headaches, insomnia, etc etc.

I agree that Candida/yeast overgrowth is an important factor too. I wouldn't say that following an anti-candida diet, ( similar but not exactly the same as the Specific Carbo diet ), could impact on AS symptoms, but on the so often co-morbid conditions which are disabling so many with the metabolic susceptibilities/sensitivities so often associated, ( perhaps genetically ), with AS. [ a thread on the subject would be great, Ephemerella :) ]

The thing to remember is that the gut is 300 square meters of highly sensitive surface interacting with your environment 24 hours a day, and that if our 2 square meters of skin reactions, ( to touch, texture, etc ) are anything to go by, it might be very important what you expose it to.

.



ephemerella
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,335

15 Mar 2009, 12:51 pm

ouinon wrote:
Huge reply, sorry, but there was a lot to address. :oops:
ephemerella wrote:
philosopherBoi wrote:
80% of the bacteria in your gut are symbiotic in nature unless you take too many antibiotics and kill too many of the good ones. I find fault in saying there is more constant inflammation in autistic people's GI tracks than NT's GI tracks.
What happens with the low starch/sugar free diets is that there is a die off of YEAST. Most of the gut problems people complain of due to high starch/sugar diets is because they cause what is called "yeast overgrowth" and a "candida infection" in the gut. This is a HUGE topic, and one that has a lot of impact on the severity of my AS symptoms.

I agree that most of the bacteria are beneficial, just not all, and that seeing as everybody's guts contain enough bacteria and endotoxins etc to kill us 50 times over if they were released all at once into our bloodstream even 20% of them being harmful to health is worth taking into account.
...

Apparently a study by Jyonouchi et al. a couple of years ago, found that AS with GI problems seem to have an "innate" ( at the time of testing anyway ), immune hyper-reactivity to bacterial endotoxins, and that this is causing chronic inflammation of the intestines.


Well, I agree with you here. I think, tho, that there is also a hyper-reaction to mycotoxins, the toxins that mushrooms and fungus release, including yeast. Mycotoxins are very powerful and very bad.

As far as undigested proteins, etc, penetrating the intestinal wall, causing celiac-like symptoms. This is called "leaky gut syndrome". It can be caused by yeast overgrowth in the gut, as well as other causes. When there is yeast overgrowth, the yeast cells, which are normally individual and microscopic, start to link together and start to grow in filaments, like a normal mold or fungus. Then the yeast overgrowth starts to become a fungus growth in the intestines, like oral thrush is a yeast infection on the throat or mouth. The filaments from the growing fungus invade the tissue and create holes in the intestine wall.

Quote:
This might explain not only many AS' intolerance of foods containing opioid peptides ( dairy and wheat ), and certain other proteins, ( which then get through the gut-barrier ), but also why a diet low in complex-carbohydrates, ( some of the enzymes for digesting which are produced in lower quantities by AS ), may be helpful, because it reduces the number of bacteria significantly, and so potentially the inflammation, etc.


Well, with that opiods thing, I think that pain, sensory irritations and nerve inflammation is very disruptive for anyone who has sensorimotor issues. So if you hyperreact or have abnormal reaction to sensory stimuli, having chronic pain, inflammation or sensory irritations can be really wear down an AS person's mind, and aggravate AS symptoms, like any maddening sensory torture. There could be other lots of other reasons for that tramadol effect, too, that's an interesting topic.

Quote:
I also think that it is important not to underestimate how much damage is routinely done to the friendly/protective "gut-flora" by antibiotics in our society, ( especially as we not only ingest them as medicines, but also when we eat industrially raised animals/meat ), and also the effect that the pill, and other hormone treatments have on gut flora.


This is true of yeast as well as bacteria.

Quote:
...There really is a lot of evidence for a gut-brain-behaviour connection, which is, at the very least, worth investigating ( with exclusion-diets etc ), if you suffer from chronic/repeated depression, anxiety, fatigue/lethargy, mood-disorder, brain-fog/loss of cognitive function, irritability, headaches, insomnia, etc etc.


These are the symptoms of yeast overgrowth, too.

Quote:
I agree that Candida/yeast overgrowth is an important factor too. I wouldn't say that following an anti-candida diet, ( similar but not exactly the same as the Specific Carbo diet ), could impact on AS symptoms, but on the so often co-morbid conditions which are disabling so many with the metabolic susceptibilities/sensitivities so often associated, ( perhaps genetically ), with AS. [ a thread on the subject would be great, Ephemerella :) ]


This is what I have, and have been treating myself for yeast overgrowth, and I have experienced a huge reduction in the symptoms of my AS. It seems like the toxins (bacteria or yeast), aggravate my AS symptoms. There are several accounts of people claiming to be "cured" of AS after being treated for Candida (yeast overgrowth). A lot of parents who use alternative treatments for AS put kids on antifungals like diflourcan.

Quote:
The thing to remember is that the gut is 300 square meters of highly sensitive surface interacting with your environment 24 hours a day, and that if our 2 square meters of skin reactions, ( to touch, texture, etc ) are anything to go by, it might be very important what you expose it to.


The big problem with yeast overgrowth is that it can get quite serious if it develops into a fungal infection, penetrates the intestine walls and then microscopic yeast infects the bloodstream. Then you get a systemic yeast infection and you can start having fungal infections in your ears, skin, etc. The mycotoxin load can get very heavy and people can get very sick, mentally and physically, from these infections.

Maybe I will put up a thread...



Coadunate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 640
Location: S. California

15 Mar 2009, 12:54 pm

I love spicy foods. The spicier the better. I love garlic, onions, curry, jalapeno, pickles, basil, mint, dill, ginger etc. etc. etc.



ephemerella
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,335

15 Mar 2009, 1:00 pm

Coadunate wrote:
I love spicy foods. The spicier the better. I love garlic, onions, curry, jalapeno, pickles, basil, mint, dill, ginger etc. etc. etc.


That is great! Me too. The foods you list are all good anti-inflammatories, anti-microbials and very nutritious. People don't realize how healthy and nutritious spices can be. I think that's why they taste good to us, so we will eat them because we need them.



ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

15 Mar 2009, 2:25 pm

ephemerella wrote:
I think that there is also a hyper-reaction to mycotoxins, the toxins that mushrooms and fungus release, including yeast. "leaky gut syndrome". can be caused by yeast overgrowth in the gut, ( aswell as other things ); filaments from the growing fungus invade the tissue and create holes in the intestine wall.

I think that pain, sensory irritation and nerve inflammation is very disruptive for anyone who has sensorimotor issues, can wear down an AS person's mind, and aggravate AS symptoms. [ The ] tramadol effect, too, that's an interesting topic.

I have been treating myself for yeast overgrowth, and I have experienced a huge reduction in the symptoms of my AS. It seems like the toxins (bacteria or yeast), aggravate my AS symptoms. There are several accounts of people claiming to be "cured" of AS after being treated for Candida (yeast overgrowth).

As you say "leaky gut" can be caused by a number of things, candida, and the endotoxins/exotoxins I mentioned, among other things. I used to know about the candida cause, but only found out about the others recently.

I too have tried an anti-candida diet in the past, a couple of times, usually felt fabulous, but not had enough conviction to continue because it seemed so extreme, so unlike normal eating habits/traditions too.

I also think I found it too much like "attacking"/waging war on something, ( the yeast ) rather than protecting something, ( the guts/my "Ent"-eric nervous system ), and I think that at some level this conception of it undermined the project. Since I got that our guts are enormous, like forests, and need protecting I have been finding it relatively easy to follow a stone-age diet/SC diet.

:?: What do you mean when you say "AS symptoms"? I did, when I first found out about AS two years ago, think that excluding gluten and casein, ( the food opioids in wheat and dairy which have an effect on brain functioning ), might "cure" me of AS. But a few months of more rigorous gfcf than ever before and some paleo dieting convinced me otherwise.

I still believe that gluten and casein may have played a significant role in the development of western society/civilisation, but I no longer think that I can "relieve" "AS symptoms" because AS is me, whereas the depression, anxiety, brain-fog/loss of cognitive function, mood-disorder, fatigue/lethargy, headaches, irritability, which is helped/eliminated by eating a certain way, is not me nor AS. It is being unwell.

So I am curious to know what things you have found an anti-candida diet helpful with; what you mean by "AS symptoms".

.



ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

15 Mar 2009, 3:46 pm

ouinon wrote:
The thing to remember is that the gut is 300 square meters of highly sensitive surface interacting with your environment 24 hours a day, and that if our 2 square meters of skin are anything to go by, it might be very important what you expose it to.

Timothy Leary wrote, in "Design for Dying" in 1997:
Quote:
We see the human in the world as existing in three parts;
1) in one's interior personal world
2) in the external world of artefacts and others, and
3) in the interface; sensory and affective channels through which one perceives and manipulates the external world.

The experience of self/consciousness resides at the interface, able to look within or without, towards "imagination" or "reality".

Self is a semi-permeable boundary.

:wink: :lol: :D
.



ephemerella
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,335

15 Mar 2009, 4:25 pm

ouinon wrote:
I too have tried an anti-candida diet in the past, a couple of times, usually felt fabulous, but not had enough conviction to continue because it seemed so extreme, so unlike normal eating habits/traditions too.


I think that the candida diet is too extreme, too. I don't do that. I have a moderate-carb diet, where the carbs I eat are fruit that aren't that sweet (apples, grapefruit, blueberries, etc.), whole grains and whole foods. I eat small to moderate amounts of carbs, and the whole foods don't race through your stomach and small intestine so quickly, so there is a better chance of their being digested fully before dumping into the lower intestine. I also eat a lot of pro-biotics -- bacteria-cultured cheeses (not mould-cultured cheeses), active cultures yogurt, buttermilk, and I also take pro-biotic capsules every few days. The good bacteria help keep the bad bacteria and yeast from running amok. Also, eating a lot of good spices and anti-microbial foods (like garlic and green & white tea) does keep flora from growing a lot, bacteria or yeast. Occasionally, I do take a product called Candex on an empty stomach in the morning, which contains enzymes that help break down plant fiber (cellulase, amylase, etc.). These not only break down any undigested fiber in your intestine, helping remove what the flora might feed on, but also they break down components of yeast cell walls. So if the enzymes get into your large intestine, they actually kill yeast that it comes in contact with.

I don't eat a lot of modern foods because they are so heavily processed, which introduces a lot of toxins, solvents and artificial ingredients. I like to eat natural oils, natural spices, so on.

Between having a diet that keeps flora down, eating probiotic foods regularly to boost the beneficial bacteria, the yeast-dissolving enzymes and eating moderate amounts of whole food carbs, I think I've done okay without having to resort to a candida diet. I've also treated the rashes, etc.

ouinon wrote:
I also think I found it too much like "attacking"/waging war on something, ( the yeast ) rather than protecting something, ( the guts/my "Ent"-eric nervous system ), and I think that at some level this conception of it undermined the project. Since I got that our guts are enormous, like forests, and need protecting I have been finding it relatively easy to follow a stone-age diet/SC diet.


Absolutely. Most diets are unnatural. The natural stone age diet is the best. I do eat some modern foods, like legumes, whole grains, and beneficial pro-biotic dairy products. But these foods have been in our diet for thousands, if not tens of thousands, of years. So I think that if legumes, for example, are reconstituted and sprouted properly, like they are found in nature, they're perfectly digestible. (Most people don't soak and sprout beans properly to get rid of all the toxins).

ouinon wrote:
:?: What do you mean when you say "AS symptoms"? I did, when I first found out about AS two years ago, think that excluding gluten and casein, ( the food opioids in wheat and dairy which have an effect on brain functioning ), might "cure" me of AS. But a few months of more rigorous gfcf than ever before and some paleo dieting convinced me otherwise.

I still believe that gluten and casein may have played a significant role in the development of western society/civilisation, but I no longer think that I can "relieve" "AS symptoms" because AS is me, whereas the depression, anxiety, brain-fog/loss of cognitive function, mood-disorder, fatigue/lethargy, headaches, irritability, which is helped/eliminated by eating a certain way, is not me nor AS. It is being unwell.

So I am curious to know what things you have found an anti-candida diet helpful with; what you mean by "AS symptoms".


I agree. But how those things affect people with AS can be different than how they affect NTs. For example, if my husband has an infection, like a cold, he can still work. I can't, as an infection seems to affect my executive function and ability to focus more than he. I think that some health problems make the symptoms of AS worse. Just as other health problems might make a preexisting heart disease worse.

There are some mood, cognitive and energy problems that we sometimes might associate with AS that are actually part of being unwell. But mostly, when the brain fog and lack of mental energy and things like that occur, they tend to aggravate issues I have with executive function and attention span, i.e. make me lower-functioning. I don't think that one can eliminate AS or "cure" AS, but I think that some symptoms can be improved, in part through a good diet and avoiding chronic infections (bad gut bacteria and candida overgrowth are kinds of infections).

I never said I was on a candida diet. Probably my diet resembles yours more than any other diet.

What is so fascinating about your theory is that there are 2 paths in modern dietary evolution, mostly based on how people got safe water.

In Western civilization, the whole alcohol culture arose, where for thousands of years, Western Europeans brewed alcohol from yeast-cultured high glucose liquids. Then the alcohol (wine, liquors, beers) was mixed with water to make it safe to drink. They also developed a lot of yeast-based foods, like yeast-cultured cheeses, yeast breads, and so on. Western people tend to have genetic dietary adaptations that allow them to metabolize alcohol better than people from other parts of the world and to tolerate and manage yeast better.

Eastern and mid-Eastern peoples were tea drinkers. They made their water safe for drinking by boiling, and this led to a culture of teas, with the teas added to the boiled water for social drinking and for added health and medical benefits. So the tea cultures of the Far East and Middle East evolved, and these peoples don't metabolize alcohol as well, due to poorly evolved yeast-related digestion genes. Actually, to people (mostly Asians and American Indians) who lack the gene for alcohol metabolism, alcohol is one of the mycotoxins that the yeast produce in the body, that affects them. I have an Asian mother, and this might explain my low tolerance for yeast.

So there are definite evolutionary adaptations to recent (last few thousand years) diet culture. What is so interesting is how people have evolved differently to tolerate the toxins and effects of having the gut flora that they are most exposed to (depending on their food culture). Bacteria tend to produce, among other substances, hydrogen peroxide and acid and these have been shown to induce killing of neighboring yeast. Yeast tend to produce alcohol, and that as we know inhibits or kills many kinds of bacteria. So this chemical warfare using the bacteria and yeast toxins as they compete with each other, is going on constantly, not only in our gut but elsewhere in our bodies. I think that how well one tolerates either bacteria or yeast kind of depends on your ancestry and where in the world they came from.



Tahitiii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2008
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,208
Location: USA

15 Mar 2009, 5:42 pm

This is a long thread. I'm only on page four. My comments so far:

Interesting theory. I've been vaguely wondering something along these lines for a while. But it's so inconvenient to test it and find out. If I think too hard, I might have to get off my butt and do something about it. There's a movement of people who think you should eat exclusively raw food. I'm a little afraid to look into it, because I might learn that they're right.

Katie_WPG wrote:
Well, the one main problem with this theory is that most people with AS aren't gluten-sensitive. Gluten sensitivity and celiac disease are independant of ASD's.
I think that's the question. Some people have a severe case of gluten or lactose intolerance and can't get away from it. If you haven't noticed or been properly diagnosed, does that mean that you don't have a problem at all, or merely that you don't know that you have a mild version of it?

ouinon wrote:
...we were often amongst the most valued members of human society...
And often among the most hated. The wizards. The Seers. The ones who know stuff that no one understands. I can relate to the kid in "The Sixth Sense," saying, "I see dead people." I see stuff all the time. Not paranormal stuff, but logical connections that are painfully obvious to me, right in front of me, very waking moment, that others miss. (It drives me crazy -- which part don't you get, and how can you not care?) A rare few have managed to break through and have been allowed to shine. The majority have always been abused, oppressed and silenced. They didn't know a name for it and wouldn't have cared. They still don't care. But the predator knows an easy target when he sees one and will always exploit it.

Ouinon's theory ties in well with my feeling of being a "canary in a coal mine." We suffer first and more extensively and more obviously than most people, but society's ills are bad for everyone. Oh -- you even said that in a later post. Great minds think alike.

All these extra ingredients -- preservatives, pesticides and god knows what they all are... The up side is that it makes cheap food available to the masses. For some, it's a choice between junk food and no food. Still, this crap can't be good for you.

Good thing I'm not Catholic and can ignore Lent. I can't imagine life without wheat. Is there something else I could use to make something comparable to pizza?

Speaking of ancient history, I don't buy the idea that everything was perfect until a couple centuries ago. For the most part, they were brutal savages, infested with parasites, usually starving, and rarely lived long enough to develop any of our modern illnesses. Who had time to think about and document nit-picky emotional issues?

ouinon wrote:
the Bible was not written by a bunch of misguided idiots
The first five books, which includes all the food restrictions, was written by one person. I'm not a Christian, Jew or Muslim, but I do believe that he was the greatest genius the world has ever known. And that he was clearly an Aspie.



ManErg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2006
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,090
Location: No Mans Land

16 Mar 2009, 5:26 pm

At least some researchers are investigating the paleolithic diet seriously:
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v56/ ... 1646a.html

Note the conclusion that it does appear that when farming started, health decreased, yet population increases! At some point, are we going to have to face the idea that all modern health care had done is restore (at great expense) the health that has been taken away by our poor dietary habits of the last few thousand years? How will the masses react to the knowledge that the food industry is charges us to make us ill and the health industry charges us to make us well again?

And not forgetting that, according to a current salary survey I read recently, health care professionals are the SECOND most highest paid category of all (after senior executives and business owners). What motivation does a dentist have to prevent tooth decay? There are plenty of profits to be made from our physical and mental health problems.

Many reasons why people resist change to diet. Partly habituation, maybe even physical addiction. Psychological causes: what we eat helps us define who we are. I remember the outcry when the first Indian restaurant opened in the small town I grew up in. "They do not eat proper food like us, they are other".

Funny that people would rather spend hours on the treadmill than try something different to eat. We exercise more than 25 years ago, yet are still more obese than 25 years ago.


_________________
Circular logic is correct because it is.


Tahitiii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2008
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,208
Location: USA

16 Mar 2009, 8:04 pm

ManErg wrote:
How will the masses react to the knowledge that the food industry charges us to make us ill and the health industry charges us to make us well again?
It's far worse than that. The health industry is making us sick, too. They don't even teach real medicine in med school any more. They just bring in sales men to sell drugs.
They have no idea of what they're doing in a lot of areas. No one has proven that chemotherapy does anything but make you sicker. No one has proven that HIV causes Aides. No one knows what a lot of the crap they sell does or whether it's worth anything at all. And it's not in anyone's economic interest to find out.

The GNP vs. dead trees, sick babies and useless grandparents.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _100605228

(And now these geniuses want to inflict "early intervention" on helpless Autistic children. But that's another rant.)



ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

17 Mar 2009, 4:33 pm

ManErg wrote:
At least some researchers are investigating the paleolithic diet seriously:
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v56/ ... 1646a.html Note the conclusion that it does appear that when farming started, health decreased, yet population increases!

Thanks for the link. That is pretty much what I had read, somewhere else. It is sobering.

Quote:
Health care professionals are the SECOND most highest paid category of all (after senior executives and business owners). What motivation does a dentist have to prevent tooth decay? There are plenty of profits to be made from our physical and mental health problems.

Perhaps they will become more loathed, feared etc than lawyers! :wink:

.