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DeLoreanDude
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21 Feb 2009, 4:20 am

I was diagnosed with AS but after doing deeper research (which I have to do since AS and HFA are so damn similar anyway) I think I might have HFA instead.

This is because, even though I like socialising with Aspies online when I'm in the mood for it, I don't feel the need, nor do I want to, talk to people in school.

Also, I had late speech development.

What do you think?



21 Feb 2009, 4:23 am

Why were you diagnosed with AS? That's what you should be asking your parents and your doctor.



DeLoreanDude
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21 Feb 2009, 4:25 am

Spokane_Girl wrote:
Why were you diagnosed with AS? That's what you should be asking your parents and your doctor.


To be honest I don't really care because they're basically the same anyway, I'm just curious.



DeLoreanDude
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21 Feb 2009, 7:06 am

Anyone else got any input here?



SpongeBobRocksMao
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21 Feb 2009, 7:08 am

I'm not sure. Since you were diagnosed with AS, it's most likely that you have that. I kinda had late speech development (I didn't talk much as a young child, although I could say some words) and I still have AS.


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Sora
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21 Feb 2009, 7:44 am

That depends on what you say is 'late' speech development. You must have spoken single words by 2 and used phrases for communicating with others by age 3.

If you don't meet that, you're not AS.

Then you could be PDD-NOS instead, if you have never met the criteria of classical autism either.

If you meet the criteria of classical autism, then you're HFA.

I'm also diagnosed with AS but don't meet some necessary criteria as well.

A diagnosis doesn't need to be correct just because you have it.

I appear too hf and thus too mild which makes most people think I can't possibly deeper into the spectrum (have PDD-NOS or classical) than having 'utmost hf AS'. No mention that someone with HFA can look really 'normal'.

Don't think to much about it.

There are lots of people nowadays who don't meet AS criteria but are actually HFA but who're diagnosed with AS.

Often because their professionals thought why were 'too mild to be autistic' or 'too intelligent for HFA' or 'that autism sounds too bad/disabled to be diagnosed with' or 'they're talking right now as a teen or adult so they can't have HFA' or some similar reason.

(Of course, all these arguments are absolutely invalid as there's no 'too mild' or 'too intelligent' for HFA.)


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21 Feb 2009, 10:31 am

a lot of aspies don't have the need or want to. Neither do I.



Callista
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21 Feb 2009, 11:45 am

Not wanting to socialize doesn't mean much. There are many introverted Aspies who could take or leave socializing. It does put a check mark behind the "lack of social reciprocity" trait, which is on the list forboth AS and autism.

Late speech development is a characteristic of classic autism, though.

But... and this is the annoying part about the whole diagnostic fiasco... most Aspies fit criteria for "Autistic Disorder" in addition to "Asperger's Disorder"! By the exclusion criteria, that would make Asperger's very rare indeed, since if you qualify for both you end up with the Autistic Disorder diagnosis.

In reality, professionals tend to diagnose the more verbal and independent as Asperger Syndrome, even if technically their traits fit the definition of Autistic; but now that children are being diagnosed very young, the overlap in functioning is increasing even more because people are being diagnosed before the final adulthood outcome is evident.

Find me an Aspie who doesn't match one of these criteria:

Quote:
1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)
2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others
3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language
4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level


Those are, of course, the parts of the diagnostic criteria for Autistic Disorder which are different from the criteria for Asperger's; and most people diagnosed with Asperger's will fit this description in addition to the Asperger's diagnostic criteria. Probably not the first one; maybe not the fourth; but I have not met an Aspie who does not have idiosyncratic language or difficulty sustaining conversations.

The only other difference is that Asperger's requires three traits, and Autism requires six. The trouble is that most people with Asperger's will indeed have six or more traits, simply because the traits are interconnected.


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DeLoreanDude
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21 Feb 2009, 12:13 pm

Callista wrote:
Quote:
1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime) <-I don't have this
2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others <-I do have this one
3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language <-Not too sure about this one, more detail on what it means?
4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level <-When I was younger I may have had this a tiny bit but not really now




dougn
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21 Feb 2009, 5:21 pm

Callista wrote:
Find me an Aspie who doesn't match one of these criteria:
I don't think I do. Not now, anyway. I have no idea if I met them when I was a kid.

But it does seem obvious to me, from the experience of people on here, that most professionals don't stick very closely to the diagnostic criteria.



21 Feb 2009, 6:02 pm

DeLoreanDude wrote:
Callista wrote:
Quote:
1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime) <-I don't have this
2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others <-I do have this one
3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language <-Not too sure about this one, more detail on what it means?
4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level <-When I was younger I may have had this a tiny bit but not really now




I don't think I meet any of it (used to though). I have been a big talker since I was six. I was echolalic as a kid yes and I repeated phrases and mimicked them my mom said but I don't do that anymore so I no longer meet that part in the criteria. I used to lack play skills yes but as I got older my imagination grew and I was able to play with toys using my imagination. I played house when I was four. I did pretend cooking and ironing. I was able to rock my doll to sleep when I was two and able to push my doll around in the stroller. I would say I did meet the autistic criteria when I was little thanks to my hearing loss that left me speech delayed. Then when I started to talk, I was repeating phrases.

I still repeat myself sometimes and say the same sentances over and over. I'm just not aware of it. My ex pointed it out a lot to me thought. One time he said "Do you know how many times you have said spectrum?"



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22 Feb 2009, 3:56 am

AS/HFA are just boxes. What you really have is the way you are.



Danielismyname
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22 Feb 2009, 7:17 am

Read this, and see which one you are; have your parent/s or guardian/s read it too, and see what they think:

Quote:
Onset criteria

In DSM-IV, the individual's history must show "a lack of any clinically significant general delay" in language acquisition, cognitive development and adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction). This contrasts with typical developmental accounts of autistic children who show marked deficits and deviance in these areas prior to the age of 3 years.

Although the onset criterion is in agreement with Asperger's account, Wing (1981) noted the presence of deficits in the use of language for communication, if not in more specific language skills, in some of her case studies. It is currently uncertain whether the lack of delays in the prescribed areas is a differential factor between AS and autism or, alternatively, a simple reflection of the higher developmental level associated with the usage of the term AS.

Other common descriptions of the early development of individuals with AS include a certain precociousness in learning to talk ("he talked before he could walk"), a fascination with letters and numbers -- in fact, the young child may even be able to decode words although with little or no understanding ("hyperlexia") -- and the establishment of attachment patterns to family members but inappropriate approaches to peers and other persons, rather than withdrawal or aloofness as in autism (e.g., the child may attempt to initiate contact with other children by hugging them or screaming at them and then puzzle at their responses). Again, these behaviors are not uncommonly described for higher-functioning autistic children as well, albeit much more infrequently.

Qualitative Impairments in Reciprocal Social Interaction

Although the social criteria for AS and autism are identical, the former condition usually involves fewer symptoms and has a generally different presentation than does the latter. Individuals with AS are often socially isolated but are not unaware of the presence of others, even though their approaches may be inappropriate and peculiar. For example, they may engage the interlocutor, usually an adult, in one-sided conversation characterized by long-winded, pedantic speech, about a favorite and often unusual and narrow topic. Also, although individuals with AS are often self-described "loners", they often express a great interest in making friendships and meeting people. These wishes are invariably thwarted by their awkward approaches and insensitivity to other person's feelings, intentions, and nonliteral and implied communications (e.g., signs of boredom, haste to leave, and need for privacy). Chronically frustrated by their repeated failures to engage others and make friendships, some of these individuals develop symptoms of depression that may require treatment, including medication.

In regard to the emotional aspects of social transactions, individuals with AS may react inappropriately to, or fail to interpret the valence of, the context of the affective interaction, often conveying a sense of insensitivity, formality, or disregard to the other person's emotional expressions. That notwithstanding, they may be able to describe correctly, in a cognitive and often formalistic fashion, other people's emotions, expected intentions and social conventions, but are unable to act upon this knowledge in an intuitive and spontaneous fashion, thus losing the tempo of the interaction. Such poor intuition and lack of spontaneous adaptation are accompanied by marked reliance on formalistic rules of behavior and rigid social conventions. This presentation is largely responsible for the impression of social naivete and behavioral rigidity that is so forcefully conveyed by these individuals.

As with the majority of the behavioral aspects used to describe AS, at least some of these characteristics are also exhibited by individuals with higher-functioning autism, though, again, probably to a lesser extent. More typically, autistic persons are withdrawn and may seem to be unaware of, and disinterested in, other persons. Individuals with AS, on the other hand, are often keen, sometimes painfully so, to relate to others, but lack the skills to successfully engage them.

Qualitative Impairments in Communication

In contrast to autism, there are no symptoms in this area of functioning In the definition of AS. Although significant abnormalities of speech are not typical of AS, there are at least three aspects of these individuals' communication skills which are of clinical interest. First, though inflection and intonation may not be as rigid and monotonic as in autism, speech may be marked by poor prosody. For example, there may a constricted range of intonation patterns that is used with little regard to the communicative functioning of the utterance (assertions of fact, humorous remarks, etc.). Second, speech may often be tangential and circumstantial, conveying a sense of looseness of associations and incoherence. Even though in some cases this symptom may be an indicator of a possible thought disorder, it is often the case that the lack of coherence and reciprocity in speech is a result of the one-sided, egocentric conversational style (e.g., unrelenting monologues about the names, codes, and attributes of innumerable TV stations in the country), failure to provide the background for comments and to clearly demarcate changes in topic, and failure to suppress the Vocal output accompanying internal thoughts.

The third aspect typifying the communication patterns of individuals with AS concerns the marked verbosity observed, which some authors see as one of the most prominent differential features of the disorder. The child or adult may talk incessantly, usually about their favorite subject, often in complete disregard to whether the listener might be interested, engaged, or attempting to interject a comment, or change the subject of conversation. Despite such long-winded monologues, the individual may never come to a point or conclusion. Attempts by the interlocutor to elaborate on issues of content or logic, or to shift the interchange to related topics, are often unsuccessful.

Despite the possibility that all of these symptoms may be accounted for in terms of significant deficits in pragmatics skills and/or lack of insight into, and awareness of, other people's expectations, the challenge remains to understand this phenomenon developmentally as strategies of social adaptation.

Restrictive, Repetitive, and Stereotyped Patterns of Behavior, Interests, and Activities

Although in the DSM-IV definition the criteria for AS and autism are identical, requiring the presence of at least one of the symptoms in the list provided (see table above), it appears that the most commonly observed symptom in this cluster refers to an encompassing preoccupation with restricted patterns of interest. In contrast to autism, where other symptoms in this area may be very pronounced, individuals with AS are not commonly reported to exhibit them with the exception of the all-absorbing preoccupation with an unusual and circumscribed topic, about which vast amounts of factual knowledge are acquired and all too readily demonstrated at the first opportunity in social interaction. although the actual topic may change from time to time (e.g., every year or two years), it may dominate the content of social interchange as well as the activities of individuals with AS, often immersing the whole family in the subject for long periods of time. Even though this symptom may not be easily recognized in childhood (because strong interests in dinosaurs or fashionable fictional characters are so ubiquitous among young children), it may become more salient later on as interests shift to unusual and narrow topics. This behavior is peculiar in the sense that often times extraordinary amounts of factual information are learned about very circumscribed topics (e.g., snakes, names of stars, maps, TV guides, or railway schedules).

Motor Clumsiness

In addition to the required criteria specified above, an additional symptom is given as an associated feature though not a required criterion for the diagnosis of AS, namely delayed motor milestones and presence of "motor clumsiness". Individuals with AS may have a history of delayed acquisition of motor skills such as pedaling a bike, catching a ball, opening jars, climbing "monkey-bars", and so on. They are often visibly awkward, exhibiting rigid gait patterns, odd posture, poor manipulative skills, and significant deficits in visual-motor coordination. Although this presentation contrasts with the pattern of motor development in autistic children, for whom the area of motor skills is often a relative strength, it is similar in some respects to what is observed in older autistic individuals. Nevertheless, the commonality in later life may result from different underlying factors, for example, psychomotor deficits in the case of AS, and poor body image and sense of self in the case of autism. This highlight the importance of describing this symptom in developmental terms.