AS vs. HFA?

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I heared somewhere that there is no difference after puberty, is this true?

I know there is three pillars for HFA
Social
Communication and
Intellectual

However, there are only two for AS
Social and
Communication

So what other comparisons are there?

one of my friend's daughters got diaganosed with HFA however the doctor actually gave her a choice of diagnosis because the lines were so blurred.

Post-puberty, and even in childhood, there's not much difference in severity and clinical management. Sure, they may both look a little different on the surface, but since they both share the same general areas of impairment to a similar level of severity, they're effectively the same thing in regards to how they can be treated.

Kinda like how Simple Schizophrenia is seen as the same thing as AS and HFA in most circles (Simple Schizophrenia was removed for the simple fact that people being diagnosed with it actually had AS or HFA).

The new thinking seems to suggest that they're one and the same even before puberty.

The criteria was always about language delays but language delays can occur for a variety of reasons - not all of which are directly related to the condition.

When a HFA child grows out of (or learns/practices out of) their language delay - they become clinically "aspergers".

Since these delays can often be trained out by simple speech therapy, how would two aspergers children from opposite lifestyles.

For example; Consider that one could be from a busy working family, perhaps with another language impaired child and the other could be from a family that can afford a live-in nanny and has oodles of time for home teaching.

Truly tricky to discern between HFA/AS - with caveats. In general, Asperger's Syndrome (AS) is a milder form of autism than is HFA. DSM-IV TR states those with AS do not have development delays as do those with HFA - with exceptions.
As far as 'intellectual deficiets?' Unknown. Technically, I'm a HFA. But this overlaps with AS so I may have a dual Dx. I am 100% autistic; some (not all!) Aspies considers themselves 'partly NT,' subjectively. I do have a measured IQ of 160+ so that I'm a HFA isn't indicative of any cognitive difficulties at all! Although IQ hardly can quantify the dynamics of human intelligence. I'm intellectually gifted, yet had/have development delays still - but this isn't necessarily disadvantageous!
I cannot pass a ToM test but I function well. Lab Pet is a scientist and grad student (firstly chemistry, etc). And (partly) mute, preferring to write than speak. I'm math/science oriented and artistic.

Some WP inhabitants have asked me (in paraphrase): "Are you an Aspie? Or HFA?" Well, yes.

gbollard states the distinction quite well (& it's somewhat interpretative amongst neuro/psych diagnosticians anyway). Except there IS a genetic distinction between the 2 etiologies (AS vs. HFA). Danielsmyname elucidates well too - at one time (decades ago) Autism WAS Schizophrenia. Of course, we now know this is not so.

I guess, such subjectively, if I can add....I suspect Aspies *might* be more outgoing or 'in the know,' socially, than are HFAs. But that's just speculative from experience. Seems HFAs (ie: Lab Pet) can appear more disordered, to an outsider & I'm painfully shy. But I actually appear quite well (physically, etc - with exceptions such as stimming) and perform well too. I do think any AS or HFA can do well if they are likeable, have a strategy to present themselves to others, and courtesy.

There is less difference after puberty,
I have been diagnosed with aspergers but I think I have HFA.
I did not talk very well until I was 8, and even now I don't talk as well as normal people, I did very bad at english at school.

It's the same thing. It will be the same thing officially in a few years, too.

Well I am not sure when HFA ends and AS starts, it is quite likely that a large overlap exists because of several reasons.

1. The person making the diagnosis can not use a blood test or X-ray to DX HFA, AS or a related condition. The person must make a judgement based on less concrete things.

2. Rather than a simple 1 dimensional spectrum which a series of conditions which are more and more different from a NT, I think that the "spectrum" is more complex. I used to think that a 1D spectrum existed until I read a few serious books on the topic. I read "Thinking in pictures" and I then noticed that Temple pointed out that a spectrum of sensory and cognitive differences from the norm exist, also the degree of difference from "normal" is subject to a great deal of variation. I now suspect that to describe us non-NTs we will need 2, 3 or more axis. I suspect that at some points you will find clusters of people as some combinations are more common than others.

I suspect that some combinations will lend themselves to some types of activities, I suspect that one way to work out what is going on is to try to find a common link between AS people who have a given profession. I know that a large number of computer programmers and other professionals are strongly into some types of dancing, as the profession of computer programmers disproportionately have a lot of people with AS then it might be safe to say that as computer programmers (or a subset of them) have a mind which is predisposed to that type of dancing.

I doubt if much research money will be spent on trying to map out which interests tend to co exist in the AS / HFA mind so we may never get the clues which will allow such a top down mapping of our minds. I think that a better mapping of the autistic mind may lead to the borders between the different states being more clearly mapped.

What would be needed would be details of many auties and aspies, which would need to include some very personal questions. A method similar to that used in the factorial design of science experiments would then consider both sensible and silly connections. For instance does a link exist between hair colour and interest in maths exist would be considered, as well as more “sensible” ideas such as does a link exist between an interest in physics and one in electronics. This would give us a series of rules of thumb which would then help with the mapping. One of the problems is that we would need someone who we can trust with some very sensitive information.

I might be barking up the wrong tree, but if we obtained data on the interests of thousands of non NT people and was to use QSAR type methods we might be able to make some progress or find that my hypothesis is wrong.

Also it is possible that like the NHS in the UK that HFA and AS might be treated by the medical profession as being the same in the future, I think that solid good research in the field will either remove the distinction between the two or make the difference more clear.

_________________
Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man !

Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.

kittenmeow,
as an 'lfa' am agree a lot with what are saying,it's already been happening in an unofficial way,the lesser affected aspies in the autistic community saying 'autism is a difference,not disability', and all the usual stuff that gets arguments going,there are many who assume they completely speak for not just another part of the spectrum but others who are worse off within their own form of autism as well.

some in the community are already discriminative towards those classed as lfa,because they dont understand-so yes,should they be classed under autism if they are unable to relate to it?
am think it should all be classed as ASD rather than 'autism' so each person can have their autie or aspie specific difficulties,needs,behaviors etc looked at as themself-not as a specific label,this would be a massive help to those who dont get enough support because they're atypical or have a technically HF label,and to those who dont want to get seen as having a disability,eg,it would force others to see autists as individuals.

Attwood also did a study in regards to LFA in comparison to HFA/AS, and he actually found that there's not much difference there either, other than more difficulties with schoolwork.

I think a problem arises when people with mild AS/PDD-NOS see that they are representative of "Autism". In fact, these people are as "high-functioning" as you can get, and they don't make up a significant portion of those with an ASD. Most people with an ASD, no matter what label they have, are in the middle in regards to severity, and the middle is quite severe.

Run-of-the-mill AS is quite severe
HFA is quite severe
LFA is quite severe

The definitions are too muddy to apply them concretely to all but the most obvious cases.

What's LFA, anyway? Somebody who needs help to do daily living stuff? Somebody who doesn't speak? Because those two characteristics can be applied to many people who have very high intelligence and creativity, too, which is something some people would automatically chuck into the "high functioning" box despite the impairments.

And where does LFA end and HFA begin? When you can't get a job? When you can't live on your own? When you can't be left alone at all? Or do you go by IQ, and say HFA of people who have to have an aide constantly, and LFA of people with all the signs of mild Asperger's, an IQ in the sixties, and a simple job?

Divide by IQ? Yeah, great idea, except it doesn't predict independence very strongly.
Divide by independence? Suddenly you have a lot of Asperger's on the "low functioning" side.
Divide by speech ability? Asperger's melts into the more verbal two-thirds or so of Autism by adulthood.
Divide by childhood history? Great--now you've got adults completely indistinguishable without getting out their baby books.

Anyway, the idea of AS/PDDNOS/HFA/LFA and any other acronym you may wish to choose is just a little silly... nobody agrees on the definitions; whichever way you define them, they overlap; and there's no clear dividing line anywhere in the first place.

Obviously some autistic people are a great deal better at some things than other autistic people. We know this. But there are multiple spectrums of ability, and people don't tend to fall at the same place on all the different spectrums you could use; nor do they have, generally, the same constellations of ability from person to person.

Why is it that people want to distance themselves from the "other half" of the spectrum? Yes, we get it. If you've got mild Asperger's you're not likely to be worrying about alternative communication or institutional placements. And if you're autistic and disabled and "low functioning", you won't appreciate people saying things like, "Oh, autism isn't a disability," implying you don't need any help and you're some sort of secret genius who just needs to be "understood", whatever that means.

We don't need groups to get that idea across, though, and it's silly because half the time you're not sure what group you belong in, anyway. Why not, "Well, I'm not like any other autistic person, I have needs and abilities unique to me, and you're just going to have to figure out what combination I happen to have."? Autism's a continuum and it stretches along more than just one variable, and there's no easy way to divide it up at all.

Is it just easier to try to dump the other half of the Spectrum so you can make sure people get halfway-correct stereotypes about you, at the expense of getting really bad stereotypes about the other half? "Well, I'm Asperger's, so accept me, because I'm really not like those poor low-functioning auties"... or "Well, I'm an autie, so I need these services; but those Aspies over there just need to get out and socialize a little more"?

Where's the unity?

We're different. Duh. Should that stop us supporting each other?

Understanding there is a spectrum doesn't mean stop supporting each other.

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