low IQ + AS

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I understand AS is usually described as having an average+ IQ, so can you be diagnosed with AS if you're IQ is below average or lower or would you be considered classic autism?

I think you would just be considered HFA.

There is a member on here who's IQ was tested at 74 when she was nine and she was diagnosed with AS two years before. I think the IQ thing is most likely inaccurate though because she sounds smarter than that. If I were her and I read this post, I would take that as a compliment.


There was also another member here who said his IQ is 68 and I also thought that was unlikely an inaccurate score he got because he also sounded smarter than that.


But yeah I had heard about some people with mild MR or borderline being diagnosed with AS

I know two people diagnosed with AS whose IQ is in the 80's. It's rare, but it can happen, esp if obsessive interests factor in a lot.

74 isn't going to sound particularly obviously delayed, though. It's like an eight year old functioning at a six year old level, or so. (We don't technically use mental age for IQ anymore.) Anyway, 74 isn't MR yet, only borderline. You've probably met people who score in the 70s, and not noticed anything different about them.

AS isn't usually diagnosed with IQ > 70; but I don't particularly like that definition. Say you have somebody with Down syndrome. He scores in the mild MR range--let's say 60--and he starts speaking at two years old, at about the same time other people with his level of developmental delay start speaking. In general, his development in terms of self-help skills has the same global delay; but it's about even across the board, except that his motor skills lag behind that, which can be put down to low muscle tone (common with DS). Problem is, he's got more than Down's will explain. He's totally sensitive to sensory input. He doesn't understand the simple games that most moms play with babies. He can't be comforted when he cries, and just has to tire himself out and go to sleep. He tends to stare at the light slanting down from a sunny window; and he spends a lot of time bouncing up and down repeatedly on his bottom. When he's happy, he flaps his hands and squeals piercingly; when he's calm, he can be engaged in conversation, but he seems to have memorized his words instead of making up what he's going to say on the spot. And he's absolutely obsessed with a single tape-recorded episode of Sesame Street.

What would you say about this kid--maybe three years old by now--who has development that's globally delayed, but even across the board except for gross-motor, communication, and social skills? No speech delay that can't be explained by the Down's. No self-help delay that can't be explained by the global developmental delay.

Technically? He has Autistic Disorder. Realistically, wouldn't Asperger's be a better choice?

I have an online friend whose IQ is 89. But when she starts talking about her special interests, she sounds very smart. 89 is average IQ.

An IQ of around 87 is actually average for children with AS according to the Textbook of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (it's a very, very big book, with many, many sources).

The whole AS = high IQ stuff is just drivel. It's no different than saying NT = high IQ. They can, but it's not the most common; average is.

Uhh... 1990? Are you serious?

Your textbook was written in 2004, which is five years old and bad enough as it is; but when it quotes a study that comes from before the post-1994 boom in AS diagnosis, I really can't take it seriously at all.

I ought to say, though, that I think the generally average IQ (it should be something like 102) of those diagnosed with AS has a lot more to do with people being diagnosed with AS rather than classic autism because of their IQ or their apparent intelligence, than with any intrinsic difference between AS and classic autism.

If you want to divide the two at all, then define AS as autism without speech delay that falls significantly behind the global developmental level, and define autism as anything that includes speech delay significantly behind that level.

That would separate out MR and autism properly (they occur often together, but the level of MR doesn't predict the type of autism). It would also define Asperger's as a qualitatively different sort of autism, rather than this "Aspies are higher functioning than auties, but we can't tell you exactly how because it confuses us, too" nonsense.

Yes, yes I am.

Those studies are which defined the current diagnostic criteria. In other words, they're the prototypical cases of Asperger's Disorder as the current diagnostic criteria go. Which makes them equally [or even more so] valid than a study done today for the original diagnostic concept to remain accurate.

There's a lot which defines Autistic Disorder and Asperger's Disorder into two groups; whether you can say it's severity in the areas of impairment, or they're different disorders. They fall into two neat little groups as far as the most recent study in the US goes (PDD-NOS is another matter). The study shouldn't be too hard to find; I forget the name of it, but I read it.

I did a quick search (but it lists all the studies done), and the cognitive profiles of those with Asperger's specifically tend to fall within normal for the majority (90 to 100) as adults, with some falling in the mildly mental ret*d range (50 to 70) and some more scoring above-average.

I typically score in the low 80's on the old Stanford-Binet test but keep in mind that IQ tests really only provide an indication of possible academic capabilities (ones potential to become educated) and don't actually measure a person intelligence. I am diagnosed with AS but my doctors have told me That prior to 94 I most assuredly would have been labeled HFA.

i'm pretty sure that the mid to high IQ thing is fundamental to Aspergers, as it was mentioned in Han's original studies, noticing people who are very bright and fine academically, but not very capable in social settings. Aspergers is a very specific form of Autism, so if you don't have the mid to high IQ, i feel a diagnosis of HFA or PDD-NOS would be more appropriate.x

If I am correct, the diagnosis criteria used before the inclusion of AS in DSM (Szatrmari, Gilbberg, etc.) did not have any point of "average or above average intelligence" (in other words, individuals with mental retardation could be diagnosid using these criteria), what, of course, made the average IQ of the individuals diagnosed according these criteria lower than of the individuals diagnoses according to the DSM.

i believe your overall IQ is the average of performance and verbal IQ's and maybe other stuff...

I mean, if you are very dyspraxic as well as autistic, your performance IQ will likely be very low say 50, but your verbal IQ might be very high, say 140, so your average overall IQ might be 95. Therefore your average IQ might be useless.

I think if you're academically very bright you are more likely to be diagnosed AS, but diagnosis is more about language delay than IQ i think.

I have a IQ of 95. The person who gave thew test said I would be in average range but probably not gifted. I scored very high on most areas though.

The DSM-IV-TR doesn't specifically exclude mental retardation, as long as it's not apparent in the first few years of life (only "mild" retardation though; autism and more severe mental retardation/verbal ability is always evident early, unlike AS, which is usually first seen in the beginning of the school years when the individual starts interacting outside of the family). The DSM is specifically mentioned in the book as the criteria used. A problem arises when you have people with Autism, who go on to develop normal speech and cognitive ability when they start school (about 50% or so nowadays), who tend to be of a similar appearance to the latter (the AS/HFA thingy).

The point being, that people with Asperger's are effectively within the normal continuum of IQ scores from birth, unlike nearly all with Autism.

Probably a child could, becaue IQs change a great deal with people under 16. However, the definition of AS is that you are autistic by have a higher or average IQ.

Keep in mind though, most people are within one of two standard deviations of the normal IQ range.

Someone with an IQ over 16 and only reaching 80-90, is most likely HFA, not AS.

Someone with an IQ over 16, 95-140 is probably AS. Anyone over an IQ of 140 is probably able to over compensate for their AS.