Into Great Silence – I compare a Monks life with AS

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Into Great Silence is a German documentary about the Carthusian monks, high in a remote corner of the French Alps. The documentary was 17 years in the making, the director waited 16 years for permission to film the monks.

I would like to hear other peoples ponderings-discussion, on the subject I'm about to delve into….

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4583670.stm

and

http://www.diegrossestille.de/english/

My interest in this film is from the perspective of a person with AS. A few years ago, I was working in a factory that had a strict shift-work routine. And naturally as an AS person I had no social life, outside of work I did nothing else. I went to work and home repetitively.

Particularly, because of the times I worked during the winter, I did not see the sun for several months. I saw at most, the bright twilight of a snow enveloped dawn or a deep blue evening. I rarely talked to my work colleagues or my parents at home, except for functional necessity.

Also, at the time, my deep interest was Human Evolution. I was reading a fine book by Richard Leaky - Origins Reconsidered : In Search of What Makes Us Human.

The combination of isolation, repetition and my interest in human evolution, was highly spiritual in nature. For several weeks, I experienced one of the most peaceful, interesting and transcendent periods if my life. I felt as if time did not exist and I felt connected to the distant past, both chronologically and spatially. I felt that I was part of a rich tapestry of evolution, an important thread of the whole that would collapse without my existence.

Well anyway, I believe that the rituals, repetition, chanting (stimming), the silence and the isolation - of a monks existence, whether Christian, Buddhist, Hindu; creates an autistic state of mind. In this separated state, an autistic state, a Monk/Sadu will attain separation from other humans and in a religious context, perhaps they will feel instead a spiritual connection to God, Buddha or Karma.

Essentially, to repeat my interest in religious practises; Monks appear to capture or copy some of the attributes and habits of the autistic to achieve an autistic state.

Notably, I'm atheist. Thus my spiritual experience was not populated by God but by evolution/science. If I were religious I may have become a religious Monk instead of a atheist autistic Monk.

Diamond Dave

cool! very interesting.

A fascinating microcosm of what society would be like today if the whole world had an aspie brain - NOT! Don't get me wrong ;it is fascinating, I would like to see that film. But I don't really see how this lifestyle can be associated with the autistic spectrum. The whole reason Aspergers Syndrome exists as a 'neurological disorder' is due to the way we view and interact with each other differently to someone without our 'disorder', which unfortunately is the majority of the population.

As a theoretical example lets stick someone in that monestary who by genetic-randomness really wants to shag a lot, more than your average Joe. A nymphomaniac in a monestary! Hey, his brain is just wired that way. Eventually he'll wonder what the hell is wrong with him. If it was a scientific community he'd probably be eventually diagnosed with something called "Abnormal Syndrome" or whatever funny name they come up with a bloke who just wants a decent shag, for the love of God! Unfortunately he lives in a religious society, not scientific one so history tells us he'd likely be banished, cruicified, burned at the steak or blown up by a terrorist bomb, because he didn't follow their code. No offense to religious or scientific-minded people intended here.

So as an Aspie would I enjoy this sort of lifestyle? With an open mind, I think I probably would - but I think that anyone is just as likely to like it as any Aspie would. Just because we tend not to form strong, meaningful and mutual friendships with a lot of people, doesn't mean we don't want to. Doesn't mean we are probably better off being monks. No, it just means we're better off finding people that are either like us or who understand our differences. Unlike your stereotype NT who can be racist/sexist/neuro.. [whatever the word for that is] ist...

That those monks choose to live this lifestyle to attain happiness is unnatural, but a testament to the human intellect. And a reminder that our basic instincts can be completely ignored and a way of life developed better (from their point of view) than what nature had intended. Ok, so nature didn't intend anything for them but that's a different argument.

So that leads me to wonder, what did mother nature intend for Aspies to do? It certainly wasn't to become chat show hosts, thats for sure. Although I'm sure our wonderful intellect could conceive an Aspie with aspirations to become one. I'm also quite sure that it didn't intend for us to be loners, never getting a shag, and not being able to form meaningful bonds with other people. I think when God was handing out the attributes to everyone he gave us the relatively high INT but crippingly low CHA (RPG reference, sorry).

In the past I imagine life was pretty crap for anyone with Aspergers Syndrome or any variation for it. But now we have the internet, we're communicating things in a way I would NEVER have been able to communicate 15 years ago. I mourn for Aspies who haven't discovered the 'net. I've spoken less words in the last month than I have written here. But I'm not monk-like in the slightest.

This is all just my opinion btw.

First

Is the monastic life style created by NT's (including nymphomaniac "Mr. Shag allot"); in order to attain a similar mental state/existence as the autistic? Or is the monastic lifestyle the creation of autistic minds gravitating to an isolated, repetitive lifestyle...preferred by those on the spectrum?

I favour the latter…closeted, isolated religious communities are perhaps the creation of the autistic mind.

Since posting, I researched further into the Carthusian order. Specifically, I discovered that both males and females are admitted as Monks and Nuns. The ratio is - 5 Monks for each Nun (5:1).

This supports the idea that Monks/Nuns and other closeted/hermetic religious orders may be populated by a disproportionate number of autistic's. The more social and less autistic female prefers a more social, human oriented lifestyle then the male. A similar claim may be made for typically male dominated chess clubs, astronomy clubs etc.. I would expect these to contain a lager proposition of Aspies then simple statistical chance.

In support of this hypotasis, I knew a Aspie female who was for several months, a novice Nun. When I asked her about her degree of religious belief…she indicated that she was both atheist and that she had little understanding of religion or faith (abstract concepts). She was an astrophysics student and was obsessed with Mathematics. She understood only the concrete, visible and logical. Nevertheless, she came very close to becoming a full Nun. It gave her a sense of belonging.

Also, you may be aware of Brother Juniper...

http://www.sanjida.co.uk/articles/waterlilies.htm - Brother Juniper

And there are also the Holy Fools of Russia

http://www.as-if.org.uk/history.htm - under Religious Lifestyles

Clearly the concept of ablement and disablement depends on circumstance, as you point out with "Mr Shag allot". Equally, Many of the Carthusian Monks/Nuns may well be "disabled" if transferred to a loud, hectic, fast paced, over social world. Thus, the high functioning end of the spectrum I say, is a situational disorder that is largely manifest by circumstance.


Secondly, you ask the usefulness of AS. I have a phrase that may explain why there are autistic’s.

“Recapitulation of Phylogeny during Ontogeny”

This means that, as an organism grows from New Born to Adult, development repeats the various stages of preceding earlier evolution of a species i.e. during human foetal development there is a stage when the foetus exhibits structures similar to Fish Gills.

In relation to autism. Autism is described as a Developmental Delay. Some parts of our minds, particularly those concerning social development, are delayed in development. Recapitulation implies that, the less mature autistic mind, recapitulates (repeats) the mind of our ancestors (the cave-man mind).

http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm - the Neaderthal theory of autism. I'm not the only one who thinks this...

Accordingly, Aspies and autistic’s are simply from a different time, we are not simply disordered.

Also see: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050207/ ... 207-3.html

This article discuses how Arctic foxes were bread over only 50 years to be more social. It is likely that a small number will be less social, these less social foxes Recapitulate their asocial ancestors of 50 years ago.

Diamond Dave

I wonder how many ASD people turned to monastic orders throughout history. I think there is a lot about monastic orders that can appeal to someone with an ASD--the routine, the rituals, the discipline, the relative social isolation, the self-sacrifice.

I thought of becoming a monk. Myself I do live a single monk life.

Forgive me, I still don't think monks have a more autistic mind. Nor do I believe their mind enters an autistic state. But I do agree that the lifestyle they live by would be desirable by an autistic person and might account for a high percentage of autistic people living in a monestary.

When I'm on the bus; everyone behaves autisticly unless they're with someone they know. They say nothing to each other, eye contact is avoided and they stare at once place for long amounts of time. They ritualistically get up a few moments before their destination, saying nothing to anyone else, avoiding eye contact and getting off. Does this mean they have an autistic mind? No, they are conditioned by society to behave this way. The same way those monks are conditioned by the society they've made for themselves.

I find that when I live by myself I am more complete. More at peace. I find when I am in a group of people, especially Autistic people, that I feel separated. So I guess I live the Monastic lifestyle...in a way

_________________
Sincerely in Christ Jesus,
Jesse Raymond Bassett

P.S.--I am back.

I think autistic people would gravitate toward a monastic lifestyle. Left to my own devices I have done just that. Most of my life I have had times where I talked so little that it was startling to hear my voice when I talked.
People on a bus are not behaving in an autistic manner because they are responding to the people around them. They are thinking who they don't want to sit or stand next to, they are thinking about the pretty girl standing up and should they give up their seat, or if that yahoo stands too close to me I'll spike him with my heel. All interactive.
People who work from home are acting autistic. and everyone acts autistic to a certain degree. ti is the folks at the extreme end of the continuum who get labeled.