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JerryHatake
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27 Jul 2008, 10:13 pm

^ So I answered your question anyway didn't I.

I think we just created a new way to play in this thread out of me asking historical questions and you with your very interesting question.


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Trigger11
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28 Jul 2008, 9:00 am

Quatermass wrote:

John Hollis plays Professor Sondergaard in The Mutants, and Lando Calrissian's cyborg aide in The Empire Strikes Back.


Lobot!


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JerryHatake
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28 Jul 2008, 9:07 am

^Trigger at least try to answered the question that were posted. :? :roll:

Another one

Who were the only four people that were promoted U.S.N. Admiral of the Fleet/Fleet Admiral in U.S. Naval History?
(Very easy one to answered because Admiral of the Fleet is only given out during wartime in U.S.N. now)


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Trigger11
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28 Jul 2008, 9:24 am

Sorry, but I live in Civil War battleground territory around a bunch of descendents from the losing side, although they seem to think they won, or at least should have, and they make me sick.


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JerryHatake
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28 Jul 2008, 9:42 am

^You can at least answered the Japanese-American Pacific War/ WWII questions. I had no descendants who fought in the War between the States does not mean I'm sick of it. You should actually take pride in your heritage because though they fought for a losing cause, they fought for their beliefs spite the odds. The war did reunited the Union but at a cost of countless human life for one's own causes. I take pride in what my grandpa Jerry did in the Japanese-American Pacific War though he didn't do anything heroic was attacked but serving his country for his own beliefs is something to take pride in anyway.


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Trigger11
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28 Jul 2008, 10:11 am

JerryHatake wrote:
You should actually take pride in your heritage because though they fought for a losing cause, they fought for their beliefs spite the odds.


Beliefs in racism and bigotry? No thanks! I think it is something to be ashamed of.


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JerryHatake
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28 Jul 2008, 10:25 am

^Actually many descendants of the War between the States veteran and fallen actually take pride of their heritage for different reasons which many exclude own beliefs. I think an example was fighting for their country not for beliefs. I see fighting in the bloodiest war for the U.S. as not a shame because being a part of history has its significance to anyone. Racism and bigotry still exist anyway today but people are more accepting now of days. It doesn't mean your descendants fought for those very beliefs because maybe they forced to fight because there are cases of that as well.


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Trigger11
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28 Jul 2008, 4:42 pm

The people around here are racist, confederate flag waving, rednecks. I do not tolerate intolerance.


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28 Jul 2008, 5:28 pm

Trigger11 wrote:
The people around here are racist, confederate flag waving, rednecks. I do not tolerate intolerance.


Remember, Abe Lincoln was a racist. He wanted freedom, not equality, for African Americans.

Quote:
I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. ... And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.


From the fourth Lincoln-Douglas Debate, 18th of September, 1858


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DentArthurDent
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28 Jul 2008, 5:42 pm

Didnt no that about Lincon. I'm English\Australian all we here is what a great man he was freeing the slaves, which of course is a lie cos the freeing the slave thing came afer the war started and was only used to gather support for a stupid war (all wars are stupid). Hey talking of racism did you know that South African authorities came to Queensland (australia) to study how they segregated the white population from the indigenous people, they took the ideas back and called it apartheid.


BTW I'm winning



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28 Jul 2008, 5:54 pm

I'm a Queenslander myself, from the Gold Coast.


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DentArthurDent
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28 Jul 2008, 6:10 pm

I promise not to hold you personally responsible javascript:emoticon(':)')

Its interesting to dig past what governments and history wants to tell you



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28 Jul 2008, 6:11 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
I promise not to hold you personally responsible javascript:emoticon(':)')

Its interesting to dig past what governments and history wants to tell you


And disturbing.


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DentArthurDent
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28 Jul 2008, 6:31 pm

Hey anyone got an isea why my smileys are so weird. I drag and drop them but instead of apearing java script tells me its there, and as you can see on the post both the smiley and java script is shown javascript:emoticon(':?')



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28 Jul 2008, 6:34 pm

Just click the ones on the left, don't drag 'em. Look it up in the Hitch-Hiker's Guide. :wink:


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JerryHatake
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28 Jul 2008, 7:52 pm

Quote:
I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. ... And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.


From the fourth Lincoln-Douglas Debate, 18th of September, 1858

Actually you don't realize that the Lincoln-Douglas debate started in Northern Illinois and ended in the southern part of the state. They promised equality in the north for blacks but when they cam south they have to change their views in order to get the votes. Its petty common sense in that era since this is where Stephen Douglas kills his chance at winning the presidency in 1860.



Quote:
The 1858 campaign featured the Lincoln-Douglas debates, a famous contest on slavery. Lincoln warned that the "Slave Power" was threatening the values of republicanism, while Douglas emphasized the supremacy of democracy, as set forth in his Freeport Doctrine, which said that local settlers should be free to choose whether to allow slavery or not. Though the Republican legislative candidates won more popular votes, the Democrats won more seats, and the legislature reelected Douglas to the Senate. Nevertheless, Lincoln's speeches on the issue transformed him into a national political star.

During the debates of 1858, the issue of race was often discussed. During a time period when few believed in racial egalitarianism, Stephen Douglas told the crowds, "If you desire Negro citizenship… if you desire them to vote on an equality with yourselves… then support Mr. Lincoln and the Black Republican party, who are in favor of the citizenship of the negro."[20] Lincoln countered that

I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. [21]

In the same rejoinder, Lincoln further weighed in on the subject of interracial marriage:

I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone. ... I will add to this that I have never seen, to my knowledge, a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. ... I will also add to the remarks I have made, for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject, that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes.

His opposition to slavery was not directed, as it was for many Republicans, towards the Slave Power but against Northern Democrats[22] who were "united in oppressing the African-American and in extending the institution of slavery."[23] On May 9-10, 1860, the Illinois Republican State Convention was held in Decatur. At this convention, Lincoln received his first endorsement to run for the presidency.


He was just counter debating Douglas basically. Also in 1865 he was assassinated by Booth for saying he will give rights to the African Americans.

Quote:
Originally, John Wilkes Booth, a well-known actor and a Confederate spy from Maryland, had formulated a plan to kidnap Lincoln in exchange for the release of Confederate prisoners. After attending an April 11 speech in which Lincoln promoted voting rights for blacks, an incensed Booth changed his plans and determined to assassinate the president.


So you're incorrect, Quatermass because you based your facts on information from 1858. I however took a course on the Civil War and Reconstruction so I have bigger view and more information at my fingertips. Lincoln also changed his mind set from what you what stated to the mindset which is better noted from 1862 till his death. Sometimes you need to look at things in a bigger perspective.

Also Trigger11, The Confederate Flag is waved in Southern VA and I don't care because people have the right to expressed themselves don't they. Read Confederates in the Attic and it will put in a complete different mindset than most people think because it has for me. People also are difficult to changed an example is my Grandpa Jerry, he still called the Japanese, Japs, because he can't forgive them for what they done to his friends abroad his ship.

So the only question that will exist from is what U.S Navy ship has the nickname, "The Ship that wouldn't Die"? (Hint it served in the Japanese-American Pacific War)


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Last edited by JerryHatake on 28 Jul 2008, 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.