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A simple problem with a strange answer

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dyingofpoetry
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23 Nov 2012, 1:54 pm

I have to agree with whoever wrote that the only thing ASD about this problem is that it turned into an long, philosophical discussion.

There is an irrefutable mathematical law governing the problem exactly as it's written and, to make this all siller, 90% of us arrived at the correct answer within an hour after the problem being posted...

yet we're still discussing it. :wink:


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MrXxx
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23 Nov 2012, 3:24 pm

dyingofpoetry wrote:
I have to agree with whoever wrote that the only thing ASD about this problem is that it turned into an long, philosophical discussion.

There is an irrefutable mathematical law governing the problem exactly as it's written and, to make this all siller, 90% of us arrived at the correct answer within an hour after the problem being posted...

yet we're still discussing it. :wink:


No we're not. We're arguing! 8)

Wanna fight? :P


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Rascal77s
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23 Nov 2012, 3:35 pm

dyingofpoetry wrote:
I have to agree with whoever wrote that the only thing ASD about this problem is that it turned into an long, philosophical discussion.

There is an irrefutable mathematical law governing the problem exactly as it's written and, to make this all siller, 90% of us arrived at the correct answer within an hour after the problem being posted...

yet we're still discussing it. :wink:


And it's page 7 of the thread and you've missed the point of the thread :wink:



dyingofpoetry
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23 Nov 2012, 5:01 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
dyingofpoetry wrote:
I have to agree with whoever wrote that the only thing ASD about this problem is that it turned into an long, philosophical discussion.

There is an irrefutable mathematical law governing the problem exactly as it's written and, to make this all siller, 90% of us arrived at the correct answer within an hour after the problem being posted...

yet we're still discussing it. :wink:


And it's page 7 of the thread and you've missed the point of the thread :wink:


Oh, I got the point.... which is why I wrote what I did.

I'm NOT a mathematician. I'm TERRIBLE at math. I have to intuite the answers and I'm usually right, but can't show my work, because I'm visual and can't process numbers. But my point is that we WILL talk about it forever.

I just like looking up mathematical theorems so I can discuss it ad nauseam... Okay, now we can fight. :lol:


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Rascal77s
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23 Nov 2012, 5:13 pm

dyingofpoetry wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
dyingofpoetry wrote:
I have to agree with whoever wrote that the only thing ASD about this problem is that it turned into an long, philosophical discussion.

There is an irrefutable mathematical law governing the problem exactly as it's written and, to make this all siller, 90% of us arrived at the correct answer within an hour after the problem being posted...

yet we're still discussing it. :wink:


And it's page 7 of the thread and you've missed the point of the thread :wink:


Oh, I got the point.... which is why I wrote what I did.

I'm NOT a mathematician. I'm TERRIBLE at math. I have to intuite the answers and I'm usually right, but can't show my work, because I'm visual and can't process numbers. But my point is that we WILL talk about it forever.

I just like looking up mathematical theorems so I can discuss it ad nauseam... Okay, now we can fight. :lol:


Christians, muslims, and jews have been having philosophical discussions (when they're not killing each other) about religion for thousands of years straight. 7 pages of thread doesn't give aspies a monopoly on ad nausea :P



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23 Nov 2012, 5:19 pm

This is why most of us are still arguing about the puzzle instead of answering your actual question:

Image



Rascal77s
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23 Nov 2012, 5:42 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
This is why most of us are still arguing about the puzzle instead of answering your actual question:

Image


The new definition of insanity - Arguing on the internet while a woman (or whatever your preference is) is waiting in bed.



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23 Nov 2012, 7:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
So the coin you have on the table is either the two headed coin, or its the normal coin with the head side up.

So what are the odds as to its identity?

Fifty-fifty. Because you're just as likely to have picked either coin at random.

So the odds are fifty-fifty that when you flip it over it will have a tail ( be different)or have another head (be the same).

Thus the odds are not 2/3, but 50-50.


Disagree.

Imagine doing an experiment where you have a heads-tails coin and a heads-heads coin in a bag.

1000 times you pick a coin and place it on the table.

1/3 of the times when you see a head, it will be from the heads-tails coin. 2/3 of the time you see a head it will be from the heads-heads coin (because the coin has two heads).

So if on any given time, you pick a coin and you see a head the odds are 2/3 that it is from the heads-heads coin. It is NOT 50-50, (although it appears that way intuitively to everyone, its like a kind of mental optical illusion).



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23 Nov 2012, 7:54 pm

r84shi37 wrote:
wtfid2 wrote:
I was saying that the answer is either 2/3 or 100 percent. I thought it was 2/3 but figured it might be a trick question and 100 percent. I just chose your post bc it said 2/3 first.


But it can't be 100%. What if you choose the head and tail coin?


Ellingtonia wrote:

Actually the probability remains 2/3, for reasons mentioned by others earlier. A more detailed explanation to a similar problem can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand's_box_paradox

This is why, when correctly interpreting the question, the answer is counter-intuitively 2/3. If you misinterpreted the question like I did you would come up with the same answer but for different reasons. This gives us an interesting and confusing situation: I understood the question incorrectly and so was able to give the correct answer, but if I had understood the question correctly I would have thought intuitively and given the incorrect answer.

I think the reason I (and I'm assuming others) has more to do with the poorly worded question than ASD, but perhaps people with ASD are more likely to misinterpret the question the way I did.


Oh! That all actually makes sense. I guess I misinterpreted the question and got 2/3. I guess if you correctly interpret it, it is kind of similar to the Monty's Hall problem. But you can never change your choice. It's kind of like looking at it from a preliminary perspective gives you 2/3. And looking at it through as a timeline it can kind of throw you off.
well i thought the answer was 2/3 but thought it may have been a trick question and just said 100 bc the op said 2/3 was wrong. what is the answer?


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wtfid2
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23 Nov 2012, 7:56 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
I find it easier to make sense of it if I word the workings something like this:

There are six possible faces visible:

TAILS (with the other side TAILS)
TAILS (with the other side TAILS)
TAILS (with the other side HEADS)
HEADS (with the other side TAILS)
HEADS (with the other side HEADS)
HEADS (with the other side HEADS)

We look at the coin and see that the visible side is TAILS (for example). So, what is the probability of the other side also being TAILS?

We can disregard the bottom three possibilities above because we know the visible side is not HEADS. We are left with three possibilities:

Possibility 1: The other side is TAILS
Possibility 2: The other side is TAILS
Possibility 3: The other side is HEADS
so how is it not 2/3? wtf?


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wtfid2
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23 Nov 2012, 7:57 pm

b9 wrote:
Quote:
what are the chances that the hidden side is the same as the visible side?

there is no chance that the hidden side can be the same as the visible side. it may look similar, but it is not the same side.
oh snap


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yellowtamarin
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23 Nov 2012, 8:47 pm

wtfid2 wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
I find it easier to make sense of it if I word the workings something like this:

There are six possible faces visible:

TAILS (with the other side TAILS)
TAILS (with the other side TAILS)
TAILS (with the other side HEADS)
HEADS (with the other side TAILS)
HEADS (with the other side HEADS)
HEADS (with the other side HEADS)

We look at the coin and see that the visible side is TAILS (for example). So, what is the probability of the other side also being TAILS?

We can disregard the bottom three possibilities above because we know the visible side is not HEADS. We are left with three possibilities:

Possibility 1: The other side is TAILS
Possibility 2: The other side is TAILS
Possibility 3: The other side is HEADS
so how is it not 2/3? wtf?

It is 2/3.



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23 Nov 2012, 9:23 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
This is why most of us are still arguing about the puzzle instead of answering your actual question:

Image


:lol: That one is an xkcd classic and I've thought of it so many times while reading comments on the Internet, but not when reading this thread. I've always interpreted that comic as making fun of pointless arguments, the kind that spontaneously erupt in YouTube comments. But I suppose it's open to interpretation and could also refer to some people (aspies) treating the truth as much more important than others (NTs).

Rascal77s, sorry for not replying to your original question, but I simply didn't have anything to say on that.



yellowtamarin
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23 Nov 2012, 9:49 pm

FMX wrote:
:lol: That one is an xkcd classic and I've thought of it so many times while reading comments on the Internet, but not when reading this thread. I've always interpreted that comic as making fun of pointless arguments, the kind that spontaneously erupt in YouTube comments. But I suppose it's open to interpretation and could also refer to some people (aspies) treating the truth as much more important than others (NTs).

Interesting, I've always thought of it the latter way. As I consider the author to be aspie or close enough, I imagine he does it a lot.

Also, another reason we are all going on and on about the puzzle is because it's a thread about a PUZZLE! C'mon guys, what's more fun than nutting out a puzzle!! :D



Last edited by yellowtamarin on 24 Nov 2012, 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rascal77s
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24 Nov 2012, 12:11 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
C'mon guys, what's more fun that nutting out a puzzle!! :D


Nutting out at a airport security check point?



MrXxx
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24 Nov 2012, 8:39 am

It's what we do.

Nothing wrong with it.


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