Black and white thinking and other examples of Asperger's

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Me too,I suppose.Most generally I am acutely aware of "grey area" possibilities,the complexities and permutations of an idea.Aside from a few tangible instances in real life,it's hard for me to clearly and totally conclude.

I definitely see things through more eyes that what I have: I see this as why I have trouble with social reciprocation, i.e., when someone gives me something that I never asked for I’m unsure what they want in return; I’ve learnt that socially normal humans expect something, something in return that’s comparable to what they gave; black or white. You return the colour that they give you…it’s simple right? We’re all subjective individuals that cannot read each other’s thoughts, so it is indeed impossible to know exactly what they want in return…this is where I get stuck. Humans are inherently deceptive: they say one thing yet think another; their body language is a good indication…too bad if you can’t read it when they show it, and it can be deceptive too. What if you give them white instead of black and you hurt them due to not being able to tell that they really wanted black in return; you give them grey to be safe but they really, really want black...you hurt them, just not as much.

It's hard to choose which is the right colour whilst staying true to your own integrity and not lying for anyone. One is good, the rest not so.

MY black and white thinking comes with people... relationships, mostly, but if someone criticises me, it will instantly be taken to mean that they don't like me and that they are doing it on purpose to make me feel bad, even if part of me can still see a grey area and that what they say is true.

Finally, I understand something I'm reading here. The only thing that has made sense to me is what what Graelwyn said because I do this. Just last night, in fact, my man did something to make my brain switch from "he's such a good man" to "what a (bad word)". It's never anything really huge...just a comment, or a joke I'm not in the mood for. Maybe I perceived something incorrectly...it's just little stuff.

Not long ago I never would have said I was a black/white thinker. I thought that was not a good thing to be, and that grey = compromise and I am all about compromise, but only if it's a true compromise. I like compromise only because it is preferable to conflict.

I'm still confused about black/white thinking, though.

I think we are defining black and white rather differently.

I think it is common for people to look at all sides,over think,process all sides and all out comes.I have played devils advocate since I was a little munchkin(drove my falks nuts).


But I have a few issues that are very black and white....mean people suck
the world is not as it should be....fair and logical
people need to tell me what they want and not expect me to be psychic
etc,etc

I also have the "instant,knee jerk reactions" to certain things....

If someone screws me over(in my mind) I think they are a jerk(and then eventually process what they have done or said and try and understand their side.....it's an intellectual process that comes with practice....sometimes I still think they are a jerk,others I realize they are having a bad day,over stressed and have done many things that were nice for me over the years)but the initial reaction is extreme..."they are evil and mean and will never love me and the world is cruel and I dont belong"....It's a cognitive process that can be over ridden but never totally goes away.It is the exact process you see in a 4 year old that mom says NO to...."you are a big meany and I hate you".....I dont think we out grew this,I think we just eventually learn to intellectually talk to the child within and reason with them a bit....sometimes they dont listen.


I think these are very different things....the first is totally intellectual and the latter has an emotional component.

okay,I guess I'm further confused by the AS black/white thing.I definitely have "black/white" feelings and "rules" that give my life a sense of structure,and I'm irked when the real world challenges that sense of structure.Even when I rationalize why and how something doesn't happen the way I'd like,in my gut it still feels uneasy and it may be hard for me to change that feeling.And,as some of you are saying,it's almost always socially related.It's larger abstract ideas,philosophies,and "beliefs" that are shades of grey to my mind(I too can be a hopeless "devil's advocate").

For those of you who think your black/white feelings are primarily social,do you think it's because you have difficulty processing social information,so you develop rules to give yourself a sense of structure in social situations?It might be why so many Aspies experience social anxiety.Oddly,many people I would identify as "NT" are more accepting of social imperfection,even if they express rigid social beliefs.I'm the opposite;I have accepting social beliefs but want my reality to have a particular sense of order.

The Aspie "empathy trouble" thing confuses me too.Were all AS criteria written by reductionist NT people?

Thanks, now I think I see what is being discussed.

Somewhat (mine is just applying black and white thinking to social difficulties)...some people see black and white when dealing with beliefs, ideals and ideas, i.e., my way is the only right way. Some people see their black and white thinking as a confusing mess, where they apply it to anything and everything they deem to attach it to.

This way (white) or that way (black); grey is swimming around in the middle somewhere (can go either way) and then there’s a whole heap of other colours that a lot of us see.

I think this may relate to one of the entries in the "You Might Be An Aspie If..." thread - "...if you can't answer a Yes/No question in less than one paragraph." Many NTs see just a Yes or a No in response to a given question - but since we're so used to rigid thinking, we can also see all the permutations that fall between the two extremes, and we want to be as exact as possible in answering. (I see this as a side effect of growing up without "body language" - if you can't use the language of tone, gesture, and expression to subtly modify your real meaning, you'd best be as precise as you can in your selection of words!)

This is not to say we can't have that binary thinking ourselves - but generally, we seem to restrict that to certain areas of our lives (you'd best not move anything on my desk without warning me first, for instance), while being able to see multiple possibilities in other areas. It could, I suppose, be likened to the difference between analog and digital computing - a digital computer reaches its answer faster, but can only consider 1 and 0 as possible states, while an analog computer, although slower, can achieve much finer gradations as it considers subtle changes in voltage state.

Nicely said.

Does anyone else here find that they really have to work hard to put themselves into others' shoes, especially in heated moments? Is this something everyone has issues with or is it an Aspie thing? I just cannot imagine being able to instantly see from someone else's point of view and understand it both emotionally and intellectually. I have to 'think' myself into someone else's shoes.

that's what ha[ens when the egg's been boiled too long

I thought that was how you empathized - thinking about a situation as it applies to a person, and then trying hard to imagine if you were in that situation (i.e. plucked up from where you are now, and placed in Darfur), and then try to imagine how that would make you feel. (Obviously people are born in Darfur, not picked up from the US and placed there, but this is how I can attempt to imagine myself as someone else). Thinking yourself into someone else's shoes = empathy. Correct? No?

Why am I feeling so confused in here? After reading all the posts I had to finally look up the definition of black and white thinking so I could start over in my head. I do understand that black/white = wrong/right = bad/good = hate/love = two extremes. But I can't see a grey area for liking someone. Either you like a person, or you don't, right? So are these black and white sides our own individual creations?

I'm seriously beginning to feel bad because I am not grasping this and I feel like I should be able to as it appears to be such a simple concept. Is there a smiley for :scream: ? I will say this, I love reading everyone's posts because you all like to analyze the crap out of everything like me and I feel so at home, besides feeling confused....

Yes, absolutely, and you put it very well. I think Aspies have to put much more conscious effort into putting ourselves in the shoes of others. As with many other social interaction issues, it's more of a cognitive process for us rather than a subconscious or "automatic" action as it is for many NT's (although quite obviously empathic ability varies with NT's also). Plus, as others in this thread have pointed out, we tend to want to give the most complete answer possible - which is seldom just "yes" or "no" - which can be misinterpreted in a variety of ways (most of them bad).

I would consider my father to be a fairly "NT" person and he admittedly has almost no capacity for empathy(being able to understand someone else's perspective as they do),but he very much compensates for it by being extremely thougtful towards other people(taking initiative to help people in ways he knows will be beneficial to them).I can feel other peoples' "emotional energy" very strongly but I cannot decipher it in the moment,and that makes me anxious;I have to process the interaction a bit by buying time and pacing it till I am clearer on what I think is being communicated.Even then,sometimes I realize later that I've misconstrued an interaction.

As for either liking someone or not,"black /white",there are people who have qualities I respect but our personalities may not jibe;there are people who are easy for me to be near but I don't necessarily respect them;there are people I like and respect but can only take in small doses;there are people who are easy one day and difficult the next;some days I am warm/fuzzy or prickly;etc..I like and love the good people I know and have known,and respect and appreciate them immeasurably,but even the best of them can be a challenge for me some days.

I don't know.What was the question again?

Deacon Blues:
Sent you a note on what site I'd been on. Sorry for delay. Yeah, they'll nail anyone for being off-topic. The last note I got from them was saying that I wasn't supposed to have posted in a thread in which a person I'd had problems with in the past was posting. Um. But I had posted there first. They require the ability to foresee the future, I guess. I must have missed that in their rules.

I think I'd be busy doing something else if I had that ability to see into the future 2 1/2 hours. Imagine all the good I could do and have done. No JFK or MLK assassinations. No 9-11.

Alas, I have no crystal ball. No special powers. And I have been labeled a troll there, for being an Aspie and doing what some of us tend to do.
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Aylissa:
You do the SAME thing I do. That switch, it's either on or off. I like the person or subject or I don't. With people it can be very difficult. Since I need to use that switch, I will sometimes make out a pro/con list, writing down the good and bad points. If the bad outnumber or outweigh the good, it's a "bad person".

But I start out trusting everyone. That's good, because it gives people a chance that would normally not get a chance, like if we were to base our opinions on those of someone else. Rumors. But it's bad because it is so hard on ME when I discover that a person I thought was a good person is not a good person.
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Krex:
I'm with you on the job thing. I cannot do things that I consider "bad" on a job or elsewhere. Which is why it's hilarious to consider me as a troll. And I don't care for most religions either. Or a lot of organized groups that end up alienating other groups.
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By the way, this is in reply to posts back around May 8th. I'm so tired right now, have been cleaning and it's still not done and I have to take a shower and I don't feel like it.

I'll post this now.