Undiagnosed Aspies, autistics and borderline characters

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By the time I came across the General Discussion thread addressing undiagnosed aspies (not really Aspie), it had grown to a gazillion pages. I didn't respond because people were already repeating my own thoughts ad infinitem.
But I still think about that poster's charge that all the so-called fakers were posting about "Aspie Pride" and neglecting discussions about "overcoming" autism/Asperger's. I think anyone who has been here more than a couple of weeks can agree that there are indeed many discussions, debates and musings about improving one's lot. There are also "community" discussions where the topic isn't about improving anything per say, but garner a consensus opinion. For instance, the discussions about the VT massacre and its impact on the autistic community, or community at large.
There is a lot of anecdotal observation too. We have the DSM-IV descriptions of Asperger's and Autism. Then here we have a plethora of "do you do this . . . ?" "oh me too!" discussions. I find these commonalities reinforce my belief that ASD is a lifelong difference, regardless of whether someone is "high functioning" or not. (I don't no longer really believe in high and low functioning)
This topic belongs here because I'd like it to be maintained by people who have succeeded to some degree at being who they are despite of, in spite of and because of being on the Spectrum.

There is some difficulty though.
We see the similarities, and tend
to begin to adopt things that maybe
we haven't done in a long time.

I know that exposure to this
site, and seeing all of the common
traits made me relive and reinforce
some of my past symptoms. In ways,
this is not bad. But, I'm afraid of losing
those things that I fought hard to be able
to do.

I think part of what I do is I see a thread that starts out.. "do you (fill in blank)" go to it and take a peek and go Oh jeeeze i do that too. But, out of just the 10,000 plus here, someone is going to relate to it, even if it has nothing to do with AS at all. Just happens to be something a lot of people do. Where I have to be careful with my own DX is, is it really valid.

At this point I still find it refreshing in understanding what it was I did or do, but try not to fall into the trap of using it as some kind of excuse. It's that feeling that I think I've had for a while that has allowed me, at times, to get through life a little better. Sure it has beat me in the face, still does, but somehow, I pick myself up and head towards the wall again, only this time I use a ladder.

yeah, sometimes it's obvious like the eye color, height and hair color stuff. But other habits, tics and mental habits are less clear. Usually I figure the "pervasive" traits that troubled us when we were younger are more likely to be rooted in AS; sensory issues, allergies, eating habits and learning difficulties that really set us apart.

well, I know that I have had that 'a HAH' moment twice in my life where I will go to my grave swearing I am on solid terra firma and once was when I self diagnosed as an alcoholic and the other time I self diagnosed as an Asperger's Syndrome experiencer.

Even if I eventually get an 'expert' diagnosis, it really doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is how I handle it. Knowing has helped me understand myself and really, isn't that all that matters?

oh, yeah, and finding you all, too!

Merle

____________________________
"in vinculis etiam audax"
(in chains yet still bold(free))

Self-diagnosing amongst my husband and I have led to a lot of "aha!" moments too. Many of his social and learning issues were blamed on PTSD (and abuse/neglect) and thus, not talked about. Now that we have realized that they are autistic traits, we can help our son and be prepared. My husband is a lot more open about his past. Weirdly enough, he was opening up when we met, so we are just continuing the trend. Traits he associated with punishment are now being seen as neurological differences and they're "okay".
Things that my parents screwed up in, I can fix. For instance, my parents were obsessed with socialization and having the "right attitude". They would read into my every facial expression, or lack of, and accuse me of all sorts of felonies and misdemeanors. I have absolutely no reason to "go there" with my son.

Melantha hasn't posted since February. I hope she doesn't mind me putting this in here, but I think its very good and relevant to this topic.

i only have dial-up so youtube is too slow for me to watch.

i'm sure there's plenty of personality disorders and non-autistic people hanging around here, there always was and always will be, any oddball/outsider can think they have autism, but it's the little things that tell you whether you really do or not, the commonalities, the I thought I was the only person that happened to experiences.

i once had doubts that i had AS and i participated in a schizotypal website, it cleared things up for me. it can be difficult to know which of the many invisible disabilities one may have. the only problem i have with it is if obviously non-autistic people who have somehow convinced themselves they have it, decide they want to be spokespeople or prominent in some way. now that could be a problem.

Hey, Bazza? when you post a video, can you give a little synopsis of what it is about for those of us that don't have video capabilities (not to mention no sound) on their computers?
just a sentance should do it,
Thanks!

Merle

Lady thinks shes got it, but at 28 doesnt need a DX.

Says DX criteria are written by psychs to apply to those that they wish to have as potential patients(dysfunctional). At 28, shes done alright, overcome most her difficulties. So a DX doesnt really apply to her. Futher more, the lack of a DX has lead her to struggle to adapt, whereas someone diagnosed from an early age often uses it for a crutch.

My summary is terrible. She really hammers the point home here. Excellent arguments and points made. An enjoyable watch. Roeper and Ebert give it two handflaps up.

I think the labels don't matter that much - the key is getting better lives whether or not you have an offocial diagnosies etc: behaviour patterns experienced by people with AS tendency or things like it hurt them and those they love - therefore find ways out of those behaviour patterns.
For me the Baron-Cohen hyper-systemising theory was key to recognising that systemising going on in my mind - and then to shutting it down. Feels so good to be out from AS tendency at last.
All best
JC

For meself, the biggest frustration is THE JOB. I was PM'ing one of our frequent posters here, and she put it quite eloquently. "I feel like one of those women who keep choosing abusive boyfriends, and can't get away from that behaviour. Except it's abusive bosses, and job situations I choose." Boy oh boy, do I do THAT ! !! This is the biggest sore spot I have. I've gone from one abusive job to another. One jerk boss to another. I've an NT friend who will no longer listen to me talk about this. He is saelf-actualized, and 'attracts wealth'. He always asks when am I going to shape up? When am I going to learn my lesson and move on?

Wish I had the bloody answer ....

There are some underlying things I'm starting to observe in the community at large. Not all do it, I found myself doing it and wondering the why of it, looking through my past to see the root of it. The one I'm looking at now is, validation. Even though you might be self dx'd, officially dx'd and all of the what ever dx'd, we come here to seek a kind of self validation. I have done it all my life. Parents would yell because I didn't do well in school, I wasn't validated. Teacher make an example of me as what not to be, I wasn't validated. I brought an artifact to Dad and asked is this really what I think it is? After several of these bringings he said, you know best. That was validating me. I come here and I can get what they now call positive reinforcement. Those that go to the doctors and get an official validation got their validation. It’s their degree, if they need that fine. Doesn’t make them any smarter then me nor does it give them a crystal ball. I must get mine elsewhere for whatever reason. In my case the doctor will have none of my thoughts, so to hell with him. I'm the one that needs to know, not him. His problem, not mine.

I too have another self AHA!! That aha moment of I'm a drunk, an addict. That path often leads some to AA/NA to get that reinforcement to head down the correct path for them. AA/NA wasn't my road, I found another, but not before paying them a visit and picking out the parts that could work for me. But the basics are the same, I don't choose to get reinforced with booze or a fix anymore and I can say no. That lesson in life goes a long way in other things. There is an inner power to me. That one is important, that’s the one that was abused so badly. That’s the one I needed to reinforce so I could move on. I’ll do that again here and elsewhere. I can see it better now, I know the roots of it and it’s not my fault. It’s not my fault, I was born with it and it‘s not my fault, that others abused me. It is only my fault if I choose to take pity for myself. Let the disease reinforce itself. That would be my denial. I won’t do that and that is why I’m here. Well, that and the people are wonderful.

So if it's possible for anybody to make sense of what I wrote. Of what value is it? My wife validates me sometimes and sometimes she doesn't mean to not do it. She can't know the scars on my mind. I can now say to her in terms of an expression or a sound that she might make, what that means to me. She's not validating something that is trivial to her, but isn't to me. I'm still shy from the times in the past. I got hurt, others got hurt, hell life itself hurts. The thing that is so great to me here, many actually, I can see things to use for tools to communicate to others. What’s really happening inside, if it's on a needs to know basis. People that I meet I'm learning to be able to get my point of being across to them better. The fact that I might have toe walked is of no real value to me, but to someone else it's a form of validation. It has to be different for everybody, there is no upc code on me. I may have a label, but all it's going to say on the ingredients is "mystery meat". But to me, I'm not a can of spam, I’m in there, I just need the tools to self validate, a little better and figure it out. If I get lucky I might be a mirror of sorts to someone else.

I just see it as a very basic underlying theme here, in many forms, from many angles. It probably is just so obvious to everyone else it took me a while to see it, is all. Another of my mini rebirths, a very small aha moment to me. Lol, I just looked at my hands as I’m trying to finish this ramble. If they weren’t wringing and clinging themselves together so much they would surely fly off my arms, I just know it. Can’t sit on them either, need to type, gads!! I just self validated myself by typing the truth. I feel better just by being able to say that. It’s a common enough trait in it’s various forms. Add the sum totals of the others, toss in a little on line test and I won’t deny being me. And I still need to finish this so I can sit on them. I’ll still pace for an hour or so before I decide if I should put it up or throw it away. Maybe writing isn’t a good outlet for me.

I'm glad you posted. I can relate to much of what you wrote. Lately I’ve been recalling incidents from my past that make sense to me now (assuming I have AS). Luckily for me, my Mom is alive to take me down memory lane and remind me of my embarrassing moments. That’s not sarcasm, because for once, I actually can’t wait for Mom to bring up all the times I fell forward as a pre-schooler, flat on my face, without putting my arms out to catch myself. Or complain that I always had a stoic expression and would never smile for the photographer, and to this day she has no photo of her baby daughter smiling. Today could be the day when she brings up how gullible and naïve I am…how I allowed men to take advantage of me, or how horrible I was at sports. For me, this is validation now, instead of embarrassing criticism.

post-paleo, you have given better words for our descriptions. Self-validation, validation. Some call it Aspie Pride, embracing autism, et al. But really, it's about acknowledging the secret something we had all of our lives and saying, "See, that's what it was!"
Some people use the knowledge to go back into themselves, retreat. Some people use it to flee the scene and "get better". I think most of us that stick around try to learn from each other and see what works best to get what we want. Getting assurance that stimming is okay, homeschooling might be better than public school, finding balances between destressing and participating, looking for better job opportunities.

All of our lives we have had to play on the NT playground and learn their rules, suffer their consequences. Now we have our own corner of that playground and can apply our own rules, games and outsets.

Ok I zeroed in on one of your comments. Forgive me a little, this is how I have delt with it. But you have the over all very healthy attitude, you'll do just fine

"Today could be the day when she brings up how gullible and naïve I am…how I allowed men to take advantage of me"

Let me do it before she does. I'll be gentle I promise.

That is a form of self medication. That's why we needed this space for our own. The young one's are still trying figure out how to get laid the first time. (That didn't come out the way it is really intended, getting laid isn't easy for some here and remains a task into much later years.) I self medicated with sex. I can say that here, I would and did say it elsewhere, but here others can come out and say it easier. No kiddies to pick up on it and throw it around or ask if you did it to music or in your socks. It's ok, it's all good, any port in a storm. I/You were just trying to get a little closer to that love, warm feeling, reinforcement that the other world seemed to be denying us. It isn't as uncommon as a lot of people think. People that did that, like we did, tend to get another hurtful label tacked on. Women especially get that abuse. Some even turn it into a life style and have for a long time. Now what do we do with that info? Me I just consider it water under the bridge and shrug. I can't allow it to play guilt trips on me. As I have thought back on it, I see many of my past partners that were doing it for the very same reason. How you deal with it up to you, you can now better understand the why of it. No need to beat myself up anymore. I am what I is. I did what I had to in the moment. I drank a lot, if I hadn't I would have ended it a long time ago, figured out how to stop and then I moved on. I am not embaressed in the least I did it, nor will I ever apologize to any one for having done it.

You'll see the pity partys here, be careful. They really aren't asking questions, there really is unhealthy reinforcement here, that's called denial. My AS is better then your AS, load of crap. My life is worse then yours is. Ok, fine, good keep it, I have better things to do.

I had forgotten how many times I have been called stoic, lol. Thanks for the reminder. I needed that vaildation today And I just added 2 more to yours. But I wouldn't trade this AS gift for anything. Couple parts I'm going to toss, a few more I don't want to part with, they have served me well. As a general rule you'll see me flirting around having a good time, I haven't dropped all my old coping skills. I can be just as uncomforable here as I can in any other part of the world and that's ok too.