At a loss for direction

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Yes, and I think its this that I said ealier:


Its been one of my hopes to assert myself over my life in this sense and, it doesn't look like it'll be going as desired.

I think I feel that way, too. It's like I'm wrestling with 'if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?' and I'm the tree.

Ah, okay. Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same position with my writing. Admittedly, I have my children and being single my progress stalled. Truth is, it stalled years ago.

I may be trying to get back on track, but I've accepted that I ruined my chances when it comes to music and I'll likely end up having to self-publish just to feel like I've accomplished anything.

I used to console myself in the fact that at least I was doing it, whether I got recognition or not. I've stopped lying to myself, because recognition has been important to me all along. I simply have an inability to get myself out there effectively.

Was it that you were originally pursuing a career in music? Or is this a pursuit for pleasure only?

I don't belittle the pleasurable pursuit of music - Not at all; it's a powerful language and art form, and I think it's a great method of expression for those who have a tougher time getting our thoughts and feeling out in more "everyday/common" ways.


Letting go of a pursuit you love (loved) is a difficult choice. I don't think I can fathom that, even with all of the frustration my pursuits sometimes give me.

Somewhere inbetween. My goal wasn't necessarily to get big to the point of having an obligation to go out and play live or leave my day job and tour but I really wanted to at least get a few plates pressed for a major label. I kind of had the need to get the best of what's been in the back of my head out there in the truest sense to where it could rivet people.


I think the only way I could choose not to give it up or at least take another year of hiatus is if I found someone in the area who was giving synthesis and mixing lessons. The trouble is - everyone has guitar lessons, strangely for synthesis or mixing I just about think I'd either need to pay for a full degree or, I'd have to be in Los Angeles or New York. I'm not ruling out that there are things like that available somewhere but I'd never find them on a Google or Yahoo search. I'd probably need to try some of my friends who've had their ear to the ground to see if they know anyone or know anyone who knows someone. I really think I'd need some type of something though to bridge the gaps. Otherwise if I found out that my ears are just bent out of shape and that the same frequencies will sound different to me played five times over - it would be time to throw my hat in.

I know 3 recording engineers/producers in the USA. One of them is in NJ and he gives workshops for recording. I don't know where you live, but if you're interested in contacting him, send me a pm.

And I know one guy (virtually only) in Amsterdam who is a musician and records his own music professionally.


There's also a group I belong to on facebook for musicians. If you'd like to join it or are curious, let me know. That group has some very talented musicians and perhaps someone could offer some tips, or you might make a connection to someone who could help (?)...But if you've been doing this for 14 yrs, you may already know some people like this.


If you're a bit of a control "freak" like I am (I don't mean that in an insulting way; I personally can't give up control with my music) - then learning how to do this yourself is the best way.

I'm about a half hour outside of Cleveland, OH. The surprising thing is, even though not being one of the top 10 cities its still a big music city. I'd be shocked if something isn't hidden in some corner. The trouble is 'hidden' is probably the operant term.

I think the thing I'd need is to find someone who could teach it like guitar instruction; whether that's deconstructing other people's professional works and essentially cloning them to get the mechanics or whatever else.

The biggest challenge of all with electronic music is making sure that you start with and maintain a frequency base that has sounds that aren't too heavy in the lower midrange or low end. My problem is, liking deep/dark, I have to try and find ways to 'virtually' fill because if I can't the ranges fill in actuality and you end up with something that sounds great when your working on it and unravels on any other set of speakers essentially to mud. The pro's find a way to carve out certain frequency ranges where you can't hear them missing but the whole track is much more balanced and the top half is clear and present with the end result even if from the getgo it was a deep and muddy track.


I'd probably need to meet someone face to face and pay em. I've already spent lots of time reading forums, browsing Youtube tutorials, learning all kinds of do's and don't (some great, others conflicting). Unfortunately it doesn't seem like I'm too bad on the basic rules, just that where it seems to get more etherial/vacuous and where the rules start becoming more self-referential (ie. the mix kind of spins in a void and there essentially are no walls and you have to reference one sound off of another and the more you tweek the more of a mess you end up with).

The heart of the matter:
1) Sound engineering, especially for a really good baseline or something like that can take hours.
2) I've seen enough producers say they raked a drumloop with EQ's and filters for 10 hours to get it right before they even started the track.
3) When I have tried to make good baselines I can sometimes come up with a good result but the end result is so brittle that I can't really extend it to new behaviors, hence the track kind of dies as a set loop.

The sad part: Often enough watching the pro's on Youtube, when they admit to pet peaves, they're the same. To go in, have a really vivid idea of what you want to do, and spend hours mesmerized by the same sound you can easily have it fall apart because as you listen to the same aspect on end constantly you may lose all tangible sense of what it needed to sound like to begin with, ie. an hour in it sounds great but you've already taken it down the road of no return. I think the biggest blow was having a super-productive front half of 2011 and then the back half I had four consecutive tunes all out fail. Part of it was complete reliance on new gear and a new DAW (Reason changed to Ableton - which technically is an improvement) and new sound card.

I think this is why I'd need to pay someone for lessons though. Essentially I'd need to do the drudge work upfront, on days - say - where I don't feel like making a tune or don't feel particularly creative but could spend hours on an aspect of something and making some sort of prefab. Then on the days where my mind is on fire with ideas I'd need to have those prefabs on hand - all ready to go - to be able to just drop my thoughts in a row and have it come together like magic. The big challenge is I'd need to be able to engineer those sounds right to begin with, otherwise I still spend a night pouring my heart into something, a few more nights even a few weeks pouring my heart into perfecting the details, and end up with something afterward that's too faulty/embarassing to post.



Yeah, that's what I've ultimatly wanted to do. I have tried to find like minds to collaborate with who perhaps had strongsuits where I don't but, no luck so far.

Probably the closest thing I saw to a viable option cost and travel-wise:

http://frostaudio.org/synthesis-sound-design

The good news - $535 for 5 days worth of instruction is incredibly good. The other side, traveling to Miami, would probably be the easiest long-distance city travel in the sense that I have a friend living near Boca Raton and I could probably crash at his place albeit I might need to rent a car to get to and from class.

I might luck out if the Rock Hall has something affiliated somehow, but other than that I'd need to go this route or something like it.

Is it good? Lol, it must be nice to have that much disposible income.

Essentially I don't, at least not if I care at all about my future or being able to put a down payment on a house, etc.. Its not to say that I can't do this specific thing without jeopardizing my savings, I just need to be extremely judicious about how I pick and choose things like this (and, if it sucks or if it turns out to be geared for movie scoring tones - then I really did something stupid so obviously I'd need to research this a lot more). Another trick I have up my sleeve - if you've ever seen True TV 'Balling on a Budget' - I'm kind of the aspie reverse of them in that I probably spend $100 to $200 per year on clothing, sometimes less, and still wear shirts from 2004/2005. Its amazing just how much of my income still goes out the window on general expenses (which I'm still pretty judicious on and have reviewed often), suffice to say I'm about a rental payment per month ahead of most people for living at home but I can't say much more than that.

Wow, you're way more advanced than I am...please promise me if I ever post my music in the music forum here that you won't listen to it *lol*.

The only musician I know near your area is a drummer, and I have no idea if he engineers/mixes his own recordings.


The Miami school sounds like a great idea! and the cost seems very reasonable. It's probably better to do in-person instruction than online instruction....especially if you can get the opportunity to ask questions and perhaps even bring a project with you. And, you can network with other people too....you never know who you might meet.


If I can be so bold to state: it doesn't seem like you've totally given up yet. With all of the knowledge you already have, and your audiophile ear, giving up now seems like that would be wasting talent and knowledge, even considering your current frustration level, but I'm not in your position, so I shouldn't really comment on this.


When I truly get my heart set on something, it becomes such an acute focus that very often, fate will open doors, or at least show a path. I think you are seeing a possible path, but it's your decision.

Something else I saw, I decided to look on Youtube to catch some more Masterclass videos to see if I could pick up anything to shake myself out of this and, while my genre is drum & bass and this guy is trance, he stood out as a name who I'm familiar with for some very high quality product. What had me bushing and doing a facepalm through most of it is - I think he probably did a better job of explaining how grueling the process is than I ever could have. I know another guy who is well within my genre as well as the sound I want to make, Icicle, has a Masterclass series on Youtube and he makes it look exactly as hard as it is :S . Then you have another guy, D Bridge, something like a twenty-year veteran stating in an interview that he absolutely hates mixing with a passion. With this interview of John '00' he does a great job of detailing, in part 1 but especially in part 2 the kinds of things that have me banging my head on a wall (don't worry - metaphorically) quite often. Keep in mind, John much like D Bridge is a major head in his genre and also himself I believe pretty close to being a 20 year veteran himself:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzQRilHzZ_w[/youtube]

I think what makes or breaks producers who are hungry enough to put this much brain damage into 'making it is that you have to have some tradeoff at some point, ie. enough positive breaks, to keep the motivation to keep going at it to the point where you can break through and even then I suppose you still struggle with enough of the problems that you started with (like having days where you're making tunes that sound like something you would have made in your first six months).

My guess for a lot of these guys; enough are dj's so, when they go out and play clubs, get positive reinforcements on their sets they have some motivational income that they can turn around on the studio grind. The other thing about dj's as well is they get used to learning every loop, bar, and inch of a tune in ways that unless you're compelled to by need is very difficult to attain (a bit akin to say trying to learn a foreign language without visiting a foreign country). Even as a very dedicated casual listener, when I try to listen to professional tunes for specific elements and actually map them out in my head as if they were my own its incredibly, I mean incredibly, difficult not to just let that go after thirty seconds or a minute, start zoning out into the tune, realize another couple minutes later that I forgot to listen more actively, and because of that a lot of things changed that I didn't even notice (and ideally I'd need to get my tunes so seemless as well that other people would have the same difficulty trying to disect them, otherwise you have either jagged changes or loops that are aggravating monotonous).

I guess that's why, at a minimum, I need to take a long break. Quite likely though, being that adults in general could both care less what anyone listens to, its not even a topic for conversation like it was as a kid, but also that I'd be continuing to pour what some people might see as superheated concentration into something that I may never have the right details to work out; I clearly can't hang my cultural or social identity on it, just like I also need to figure out how to get myself back into the world - essentially as a nobody - but learn how to be a 'in sorts' and evironmentally appropriate nobody where I can still be in fair enough standing for getting what I want out of life. In the later case though I have no core competancy or pro-athlete skill to lean on for the things I can't fix about myself so, it becomes quite a challenging scenario to sort out.

*Thinking out loud* - I just remembered something - I think DiscMakers was offering a free recording evaluation. But that's probably with an order of CDs from them....and Derek Sivers who used to own CDBaby seems like a cool guy, but I haven't seen an email from him in a while. Derek does by the way respond to emails (or at least he used to). I wonder if he might know someone or have more advanced advice (?)

http://sivers.org/

The majority of adults in general don't care much about any art in general, but if they were completely deprived of quality art, I think there would be a public outcry.

You may be correct that you need to take a little break.I know it's natural to get lost in the details - I do that too. The details are important and can be critical to a work, but the overall creativity and concept of the work is more important to the general population.