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kotshka
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26 Jun 2011, 1:45 pm

Yes, I agree with you there. This is one of the areas he and I have fights about. He wants to be able to see his child whenever he wants, and he loves her dearly and is a very good father, but he doesn't want the responsibility of being a single parent. He insists that despite her issues, she is "a reasonably good mother" and the baby is safe with her. To be fair, his whole family lives in another country and he really would be on his own with a low-paying job and no one to watch her when he's working unless he moved back (which would create a whole other slew of problems I'm not going to go into on the internet). But I remember my childhood, and my mother was very similar to his girlfriend, and I worry about what will happen to that poor little girl as she grows up. Even if no physical harm comes to her, the psychological damage will be terrible. In fact, I'm sure that's a primary reason why the girlfriend is so messed up - her mother was pretty messed up too, and between the genetic factors and the terrible childhood, she probably never had much of a chance to be normal. In fact, I sometimes feel very sorry for her, because I'm sure it's not her fault she's like this (who would ask for that?). On the other hand, it's her choice how she deals with it - she could listen to her loved ones and get some help, but she absolutely refuses, and that's not acceptable.

The only written evidence I have that she ever threatened the child is a single text message on my phone from nearly two years ago where she was in the car with the baby and "on her way to an accident" while texting me. In the broader context it was clearly a suicide threat, but I'm afraid she could easily explain it away as a misunderstanding. I doubt if I could prove anything, especially since she's had psychologist friends "diagnose" her as sane and not dangerous, and my idiot friend would rather back her up on that than face being a single father. (Again, one of the areas we fight about.)

I don't know, I'm a foreigner living in a country where I don't speak the language that well, and generally speaking the police here tend to ignore "domestic dispute"-type calls from people who aren't a part of the family. I've tried to get involved in their family in the past and it blew up in my face. Maybe the Czech mentality of "don't put out the fire if it's not burning you" has started to rub off on me. But I don't feel like I personally can do very much in this situation. And for all I know, she is generally a good mother despite everything else. I don't know if I could live with myself if I tore apart their whole family, even if I think it's for the better. It's not my place. Not to mention the added stress it would put on my life to be involved with a legal battle like that. And if she *wasn't* locked away as a result, you can bet she'd get her revenge...

I think for now I'll just wait and see what happens. If she continues to keep her distance except for social events, I suppose I can just try to avoid her, keep my friends around for protection just in case, and try not to let myself get too stressed out over it. And if she starts up her old crap again, I can always try to get a restraining order.



liloleme
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27 Jun 2011, 3:47 am

Sorry coming in late. I would agree by some of your statements that this woman has some mental problems which have probably been made worse by her loosing the Father of her child. She probably is not on medication either or does not take it. Most mental illnesses are treatable. There must have been something about her that this man loved for him to willingly have a child with her.
I would also advise you to watch this guy because it sounds like he has you convinced that he is the victim....he has allowed her to go after you which is concerning in itself. Is she attacking any of his other friends and if not you need to wonder about that.
I understand that you are a woman and you are also Aspie and its hard to understand other people. Its even more difficult to understand men even though we seem to share more with them than other women (typically)....still their thinking can differ from ours. I have been manipulated so many times by so many people (female and male).....and a lot of them were men who were supposed to be my friends but I found out that they were not really a "friend" they wanted to be with me. I do not "catch" all those little flirty social cues. You have to be very forward or blunt for me to know that you are interested in me. One guy even claimed he was gay, even was dating a guy for awhile, but became crazy when I decided to move away. He told me that he was bi sexual and I was like a woman and a guy all at once and he wanted to be with me. It was very difficult for me as I never saw that and we were just like brother and sister, I thought. I still feel very strange about that even though it was about 13 years ago. I am always trying to figure out what I missed there. I also still feel a bit guilty like maybe I led him on? I didnt know, I wasnt aware of how he felt.
One of the reasons I avoid most people is because I seem to have a knack for attracting manipulative people. They see someone who is vulnerable and lacking in understanding of social skills and they take advantage of me. I have a hard time telling if someone is lying to me and I used to trust people because I thought they were honest as I was. Now I am very wary of people.
There are good people out there and I was fortunate enough to find my husband but I distance myself from other people. I have no interest in making new friends other than online where its simpler to just stop speaking. You are alone and you obviously need some social interaction which I completely understand but if I were you I would try to distance myself from both of these people. I understand that this guy is in your circle of friends and I understand that you would feel guilty leaving the friendship because you feel he has helped you so much.....but then again, he may know this and if he does then its manipulation. If he is sharing "secrets" with you that he doesnt want anyone else to know than this is also a form of manipulation, making you feel guilty that he is sharing "important" things with you. Just the mere fact that he would continue the friendship with you knowing that the Mother of his child is after you shows that he is very selfish.
I hope that you find someone else worthy of you. Someone to be a good friend, someone trustworthy and who would not allow you to be hurt.



kotshka
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27 Jun 2011, 7:07 am

I only have a few minutes, but just very quickly - yes, she goes after everyone he cares about, including all his friends, male and female, and his family members. I get more crap from her than most of his other friends only because 1. I am female and 2. when I first met her I made the mistake of telling her I was autistic and often uncertain about whether I am behaving in an appropriate way. She took that and squeezed it for all it was worth, constantly trying to convince me that I'm the one behaving inappropriately (like being angry that she tried to get me deported). My friend is indeed a selfish person and I'm well aware of that. It's another of those things that we fight about. And recently I've been avoiding him almost completely because of this "secrets" nonsense. I told him that he cannot simply tell me everything after I tell him I don't want to know, and then order me not to tell anyone. I told him that if I feel it's appropriate to tell other people, I will, and if he doesn't want that, he needs to keep his secrets to himself. As I've said repeatedly, we are not very close anymore (he calls me his best friend but I no longer consider him mine and I don't see him very often). But the original problem I was trying to address here is that even if I try to distance myself from him, she still assumes we have some kind of secret relationship and comes after me anyway, regardless of whether she has any proof or justification. In the end, it doesn't matter if he and I are friends or not. She assumes we are and acts accordingly.



liloleme
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27 Jun 2011, 2:10 pm

She may find this a sort of game now. She may enjoy the power she has over you and the fact that she can turn her bad feelings onto someone else. She hurts so she wants to hurt others. I think its good that you are thinking about taking action and maybe just your standing up to her and telling her you are not going to tolerate her harassment anymore will work. I can imagine you are nervous as you have said this woman has become physical with other people. I would be too, Id be completely panicked....I can relate to being afraid of people and Ive had people in my life that have frightened me. Part of the reason I mentioned the fact that sometimes we leave ourselves open to manipulative people was in reference to her as well as him. She is manipulating as well, just in a different way. Like I said I hope this situation resolves itself and you can be around people who deserve you. These types of people are dishonest and basically garbage. Anyone who threatens another person should be held accountable but this can be difficult no matter where you live and I know what its like to live in another country when you do not speak the language very well. That in itself can be very frightening. I am also from the US but I moved to France about a year ago. I have my husband, who is French, but I still have a lot of issues here because of the language barrier.
Just hope that you work things out!



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27 Jun 2011, 4:44 pm

She's too crazy for him to stick around, but she's sane enough to raise his child?
You are being PLAYED. :lol:



kotshka
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27 Jun 2011, 4:44 pm

Thanks for the kind words. I hope things work out too. I do think that I get better at dealing with her as time goes on. I have learned that if she gets a reaction, she will keep on doing what she's doing. If she doesn't get a reaction, there's a good chance she will attack my loved ones in an attempt to get my attention back. However, if they don't react either (which they're all finally learning to do - I don't think anyone answers phone calls from her anymore), eventually she gives up and diverts her attention elsewhere. She is a master at stepping on raw nerves and pushing buttons to make people upset, but I think I'm learning to control myself more when she's around and not react. If I can master that, I think everything will be okay anyway. And worst case scenario, it's comforting to know I have legal options now. I do hope it doesn't come to that though. Lawyers are expensive and court is never fun for anyone.



kotshka
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27 Jun 2011, 4:49 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
She's too crazy for him to stick around, but she's sane enough to raise his child?
You are being PLAYED. :lol:


He's an idiot, and he's selfish and lazy. He has good qualities, but I won't argue those three. I don't think she's a good mother, but I can't exactly go around calling the police on every parent I think isn't doing a good job. I had serious issues with my mother growing up, but it wouldn't have been right for some random friend of my father's to call the police and try to get me taken away from her. I don't want to make myself responsible for their family. I have enough on my hands just being responsible for myself.



Mishmash
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24 Aug 2011, 11:11 am

kotshka wrote:
I don't want to make myself responsible for their family. I have enough on my hands just being responsible for myself.


I know you have the best intentions with this situation, however think you've hit the nail on the head there, hun; detach yourself completely from the situation, save your energy for yourself. Use this energy to blossom and grow and nurture yourself and your life and let this bloke and the chick get on with their own messy affair. It's sad to lose a friend you once held dear, but I have learnt in the last year that some people can be very "toxic" and it's best to just back away from them completely to keep their poison from infecting your life and affecting your psychological well-being and self-esteem.

I agree with the other posters who say that keeping a journal of any harassment and upsetting/intimidating incidents is a good idea - I did this with someone once with pleasing results. It's stressful to keep the log but well worth it in the end.
P.s. In the country I live in (the UK) it's illegal to harass someone by phone, text, computer or other technological means; it's called The Misuse of Telecommunications Act. I know you are in the Czech Rep and you said they don't have many laws against this kind of thing, but it might be worth investigating?



mntn13
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25 Aug 2011, 11:31 am

1.turn the tables on her. repeat every single thing she says to you back at her. do not use any emotion in your voice or expression. if you can afford pay a friend to accompany you to social events where she is likely to show up, and let everyone around know that this person stalks you and that you need help to keep her away from you. turn this situation completely public: it is the privacy and autonomy in which she has power over you. do not let her be with alone. if there is an agency that deals with child abuse in the country tell them and show them documentation of her behavior. if she treats you like this then her child is certainly at risk.
2. move far away and drop all contact with your previous circle of people.