What are we like in the eyes of outsiders?

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That's very important insight. Aspies are constantly given advice they can follow, namely learning social skills. We have to be told THIS kind of stuff, even if we won't be able to learn to do it. We have to know what the real issues are separating us from NT society, and deal with the frustration if we feel we'll never be able to act like them. Awareness of the real issues, at the very least, is empowering.

Please forgive my bad grammar and poor topic-maintenance, because I really wanna try to communicate and respond to two, recent posts (here).

I've read two of the recent posts (above - on this, 4th-page) slowly and carefully, twice, and...I don't want to exaggerate, but, honestly, after reading what you both wrote (your dialogue), now I feel kinda dumb (and I'm not after your pity...but I wanna, instead, express to you that I have strong emotions, now...- not because I don't understand your, two posts, but because I now think I finally DO and am now mad at myself...perhaps feeling SELF-pity and embarrassment [therefore: "self-anger"]...over the seeming truth that, during my 38 years of life ...[and, by the way, I have no, official, AS diagnosis -- in fact, it was only four, short months-ago when I, on my own volition and out of growing curiosity, bought my first "asd" book---and, since then, have been reading [lotsa stuff] "like mad" ----trying to quickly understand what "asd" is and have been feeling both exhilleration and surprise at how wonderfully well "asd" descibes me [and explains my past]) So, yeah, I feel kinda dumb that I'm just-now "catching on" to why I've never understood others, and vice-versa.

I haven't had hardly any natural, typical ability to understand how, on Earth(!), most everyone I know can care, so very much, about building and maintaining relationships (complete with politically-correct niceties and smile-all-the-time trivial, small-talk) to feel better about their lives. I just never have "got it". To me, everyone ELSE has been on "the 'wrong planet" (so to speak) and, again, I'm not trying to be "hyperbolic" (man, I H8 that word! [over-used]). I'm trying to explain this as honestly and simply as I can.

As long as I can remember, I've cared -- almost exclusively -- about fact-learning, art-learning and artistic (non-verbal) expression and performance (musical and creative-writing). I was the kindergartner who was so caught-up in his special-interest (watching an airplane out the window) that he failed to see that his classmates had all left the room. (I was frightened that I was suddenly alone... and then the teacher discovered me and punished me.) I was the 1st-grader who never missed a word on a spelling test and who was teased for strictly adhering to my mother's rule to never say any "'bad' words". I was the 2nd grader who the teachers couldn't get to quit doing book reports on encylopedias, almanacs and geography books. (In my seven year-old free-time, I memorized geography, wanted tested on it and authored several, drawn-to-scale map-books. I was the 3rd-grader who memorized all the multiplication tables with such ease that I was always fastest during "timed (multiplication) tests". I was the 4th-grader placed in a fifth-grade classroom who, for teacher amusement, would be given only ten-seconds to study and memorize a five-foot-long series of numbers and then asked to recall them, in order. I preferred talking to adults (rather than children) -- especially to senior-citizens -- except during the rare instances when I was celebrated at school, when my peers wanted me on THEIR team during group/class, trivia contests.

I'm now the 38 year-old grown-man who is currently boring you-all with all-these trivial, FACTUAL memories (which I -- unfortunately for you -- love to share) and am the man who slowly loses friends and wonders why. I'm the guy who detests eye-contact and who is always hurt when he catches two of his conversation partners/his "listeners" trying to secretly, humorously "'roll their eyes' at each other" when he's trying to share facts with them.

Random facts about myself: Once I begin a special-interest project, I won't want to sleep until it's completed and, so, I (like many who have "asd") strgfle with insomnia; My over-stimulated and disorganized mind easily gets off-topic and I was, thus, a slow test-taker; the incident which prompted me buy my first ASD book (four months-ago) was my very animated and emotional reaction to a certain, loud noise. On the other hand, I am a drummer, so, in no way do all loud noises bother me - just certain ones; like many on WP, i've been told that I look much, much younger than I really am; i scored in the lower 3% on a college-admissions "spatial reasoning" subtest (a type of deficit, from what I've read, often seen in "asd"). I have language-processing slowness/difficulties.

So! As you can see, I am, in NO way, "brilliant" or "genius", or "gifted" (but I do enjoy the mental stimulation of chess).

Ok. Topic-shift -again -...and getting-back to the topic of "relationship troubles"...

...I can sometimes see SOME of the things I do "wrong", but it's sure "hit and miss". I don't value building (and maintaining) relationships (in order to feel safe and happy and part of various social, meaningful networks). To me, it's so aggravating that other people DO; that most-others don't think like me! I'm the classic case of "he would rather tell you that you are wrong -correct you - and not be your friend anymore, than let you go-on thinking you're right, when you're not. To me, "the truth" trumps "relationships" because people constantly change their minds (break vows to each other) and never know what they want and selfishly do anything they can for personal gain; they lie...but... facts don't. I'm a cynic (human relationships-wise), but am, on the other hand, a very happy person when I delve into fact-learning or art-appreciating, or sports-watching, or when caring for animals.

I'm helpful and polite when I see people in-need. (I'm not totally self-centered.) But, if I'm in the middle of a special interest, I DON'T want to be disturbed.

I'm straight-forward and don't like "small talk". I can jump from
topic-to-topic (obviously) in conversation and from special-interest to special-interest at the drop of a hat! I prefer performing art or telling a funny story FOR someone (i.e., talking "at" someone) -- trying to impress them with facts or with art-communication ---just as I am impressed by those, NON-deep-personal-relationship-building things.

I can't believe that I went 37 years and 357 days without catching-on that I might, possibly, have "asd"! !!

To improve my life and relationships (because it's lonely if I don't), I'm trying to quickly learn about NT values and relationships, and about others' relationship-manipulations (for their selfish gain).

NTs have confused me and hurt me. I'm a nice guy, but they lose patience with me.

Thanks again, SO much, everyone, for sharing your opinions. I'm on this website to learn and, also, to find others like me so that I don't feel as lonely as I used-to.

People have wanted relationships with me, just to find-out more about me, but they've soon discovered that my values were different.

These two, recent posts (the one by "Tarantella64" and the one by [I'm sorry, I can't quite remember your name. Is it "...cube..." or something?), have sure "shed some light" (for me)!

I'm so grateful to you, both!

And, I'm so sorry that this hasn't "come out" very...easy-to-understand (here) -- that it's jumbled-- but I AM tryin' to (both) be "real" AND learn.

Thanks.

Ps, kinda off-topic, yet very important to me: would you-all recommend me trying to get a diagnosis and/or counseling...you know, since this ("asd" revelation/explanation) is all so new to me and I have so much to learn and, from what I can tell, "asd" is a highly-probable explanation (for me)? Maybe I have other things going-on, too? My mother told me (a few months ago - when I bought her a book [about Asperger's] to read) (she told me) that both she and my father had long-suspected that I have/had "autistic tendencies", but, so as not to limit my potential, they chose never to talk to me about it. (I now think my mom has some "asd" traits.) (And, I did make-it through grad. school [can you believe THAT; ), but was, then, overwhelmed in the workplace/disorganized and had difficulty with coworker relationships [in an education/teaching-young-people profession.)

Hey, the way I look at it: i can either take NO risks and NOT push "submit" (here) and NOT ask these very personal questions/give personal examples, and not have a chance at receiving your intelligent opinions, OR... I can.

But, this (above) is all pretty embarrassing to share. And it's even more embarrassing that it's written in such a disorganized fashion. I could take the time to edit it, but I don't have much patience and trust you'll "get the gist".

No one likes to be told that they're doing something wrong or (to put it nicely) "different", but when I read what you-all wrote about the importance NTs place on relationships, it made me feel "different" - like, "Well why would they do THAT?" And, "Oh, maybe THAT'S why I don't understand them!" And, "I need to work harder at trying to build and maintain relationships to avoid giving away that I'm not "relationship-oriented". I don't like being "talked about" and excluded.

I'm the guy who goes into work and enjoys relaying facts of a history special (complete with dates)...because I found it fascinating...yet my hypothetical co-workers, instead, enjoy laughing about how they "played each other" in a group video game (the night before). I wonder how they could waste their time and they wonder the same about me.

I appreciate everyone-here's effort to try to help both sides "get along" better (better-understand each other).

And I guess I'd feel kinda foolish if someone here didn't at-least try to offer-up some thoughts on what I've written (here). (I'm VERY SORRY this is such a long post, but, at the same time, I've said everything I want to.)

Thank you for listening. It's liberating to finally share.

WFU, my heart goes out to you. I'm sorry it's such a shock, but you shouldn't feel bad about this. It's not something that people talk about, normally, in any such laid-out fashion. I think I only really started understanding it after I had a child, because the world's so richly interconnected around children -- it really is impossible to raise a child alone, and even if you're inclined to live as a perennial adolescent, you get brought into a very family-relational, community-relational world. The more so if you're also the person supporting the child and have to maintain business relationships. And -- particularly in the world surrounding children -- the sense of other people wanting *all* the children in their network to do well is so strong that it'd be hard for me to miss how strongly they reach out to me, trying to make sure that my daughter will do well. (To them, of course, it may feel like nothing much, not much effort. But to me it's a surprise.)

Anyway -- people for whom this relational stuff is normal, like air...you know, they don't describe themselves like this. In some ways having AS is like being a non-Christian in America. If you live in an ocean of Christian religion, mores, stories, and attitudes, and you've grown up that way, the idea that there's anything to explain, or that indeed there's any other way to be, just doesn't come naturally or easily to most. Most people don't wonder how it is that they're able to walk and talk, either. They just do it. So they don't explain it, and if you're not wired for it, you don't notice it. Then it's just silence and mystery around the whole topic.

I would imagine that you have some trouble with your profession partly because that world is...well, it's one of the most intensely relational I've seen. K12 isn't famous for getting the facts straight. I'd venture to say that a very healthy chunk of the teacher/admin population doesn't actually think they're all that important, though scoring well on the tests is regarded as crucial. (And it is, for funding.) What a good grade school does, though, is teach the kids to get along. I've seen some amazingly deft relationship-handling among teachers and guidance staff. Things I'm really impressed by and grateful for -- things I could never do myself. And a good staff will really nurture the kids, too, tend to their emotional wellbeing. It's especially important now, with the economy so rotten, so many kids' parents divorced and recoupled, and, sad to say, so many kids' parents in jail. A warm, caring teacher makes all the difference in the world.

My kid told me last night that she wants to be a teacher. She's been hovering around that idea for a couple of years, and seems to have landed pretty well now. And she's the right type. She's very smart, but the last thing she'd do is break a relationship over a fact, and frankly she doesn't really care that much about facts. Ethical arguments, social situations, relational problems, ways of helping people learn while helping them feel good, smiling at the cuteness of little children -- yeah, she digs all that. Won't go near an atlas, doesn't care for learning languages.

On the other hand, I work in a university science department where people care *intensely* about facts and have trouble maintaining eye contact. If I vanished for two weeks, I doubt anyone but my students would know. There are some very odd ducks in that place, and it's tough to fire people. In some ways it's intensely social -- the demands of the students can be intense, and if you choose to engage in the politics or you have something you want to do that's new, if you're entrepreneurial, you're going to spend a lot of time meeting with people. But you can also retreat at will, more or less. I don't think I'd last long in K12, but so long as the politics aren't too ugly, I could probably live in my department for a long time. (An unfortunate thing is that when the politics do get ugly, they're very ugly indeed -- partly because the empathy quotient is so incredibly low, and because it's impossible to get some of these people to see that there are valid viewpoints other than their own.)

I do think you should seek a diagnosis, because at some point it may be helpful or necessary to go on disability, a word that needs replacing because it's wrongly loaded with shame. In other places it's called a "social benefit", which is what it is. This country's very cruel about these things. A therapist -- not always the same as a diagnostician -- can also help you sort through and understand what AS has meant for you and in your life.

I understand your parents' thinking, too, in not mentioning autism to you. There were several good reasons not to do it. One, not knowing how you might take it, and if you seemed to be all right with yourself and getting by, then why mess with that? Two, 30 years ago social attitudes about autism were very different from what they are today, and the likelihood of your having been warehoused or simply written off would've been...well, if not high, then not insignificant. Districts didn't have autism units back then, and if you'd had a rough patch at school, your mom might've gotten a call with the principal telling her that they're not equipped to handle autistic kids, come pick you up, make some other arrangement for your education. And then your isolation would've been profound. Or you'd have been sent to a catch-all "special school" for kids with autism, mental illness, mental retardation, whatever the schools couldn't handle. Or your parents would've been pressed to put you on psych meds. As things were, you were just a weird kid. So I think they did right by you. And three...you'll often see people on here trying to dissuade well-meaning types from announcing to parents and partners that they have AS. It's really best to come to that sort of recognition on your own, if you can.

Being that WFU and I are near the same age, and knowing that my parents knew very quickly I was "different" (though I'm not sure if "autistic" or Aspie was ever brought up or considered - I will have to ask them), I have to wonder if they did the same thing WFU's parents did because of this very thing you mentioned - as a means to protect me. In the 80's you were one of two things; normal or "ret*d"; whether it was down's, autism, CP, or some other mental/physical handicap. NT kids are cruel even to each other, and downright nasty to AS kids because "we don't look ret*d, but are freakin' weird". Only the cruelest of kids would overtly pick on/mock a visibly handicapped child. Being placed in a "special" class with kids would probably have been far more traumatic and stunting that having to "tough it out" amongst the NT kids. At least some kids could learn to respect you if you were smart (or in my case and probably in WFU's case, "use you" because you were smart).

I remember my parents telling me that my 3rd grade teacher would not give me higher-grade material because "it was against school policy", even though my 1st and 2nd grade teachers were giving me 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and even 5th grade materials. She told my parents that if they wanted me to get higher grade materials to move me up a grade because she wasn't going to give me material above my grade level (she was from the "old school" where kids were all taught the same - good, bad, or indifferent). My parents flatly refused because I was already getting picked on because I was smart and a chubby kid, and I was towards the backend of the cutoff for my grade anyhow (meaning I could've been in the grade behind me) so I would've been really behind the grade in front of me in terms of development and maturity. I think it would've been less cruel to be with the "special kids" at that point.

So even though my school years were relatively painful and I went through a lot of hell (well, at least I think I did, anyhow), I know I'm in better shape having received a regular HS diploma through "normal classes" rather than suffering through "special classes" because I was "different". Given the timeframe and the expectations/atmosphere of the time I grew up in, my parents did right by me and I never have faulted or will fault them for their decision, and I hope WFU feels the same. I'm sure if I was growing up in the world today, I would be in a class more suited for Autistics/Aspies, or at least have an IEP more suited to my needs. I know this because I worked in education for nearly 5 years and saw the personalization of education for non-NT kids. But that's a testament to the evolution of education and the realization that "high-functioning special needs kids" required a more tailored education than the average NT child which, IMHO, is one of the few progresses made by education in the past 30 years. I'll save views regarding educational regressions for another time.

Wow.

Some real intense, in-depth discussion going on here.
Thanks for sharing, I know it isn't easy.

@WIFU:
You're not 'dumb' for not figuring it out sooner.
I probably wouldn't have ever known had I not seen a documentary about low-functioning autistic children, recognized a lot of their symptoms in myself (though less severe), and mentioned it to a psychologist I was seeing about a year later.
She diagnosed me with Asperger's Syndrome, which I hadn't even heard of.

@tarantella64:
Thanks for the excellent description of something I've often suspected, but have always had trouble accepting or believing, let alone wrapping my head around enough to fully articulate as you have done here.
It does, from my perspective, seem a bit sci-fi like, almost as if allistic people are living in a world parallel to mine that I'll never really be able to understand.
Wrong planet, indeed.

I have some questions about these relational networks you've described as being so important to the allistic:
How would one even begin to go about understanding this relational network you've described as the norm for the allistic?
One must assume that the allistic are automatically putting one in the context of their relational networks, so is there a way to understand where it is in their relational networks one is being put?
Is there a way to know what exactly that means in terms of the behaviors and interactional parameters expected from one due to this positioning?

I'm not sure you'll be able to answer any or all of them, or that I'd understand the answers if if you could, but I'd be very interested in reading any insights you might have into my questions, no matter how trivial they may seem.

To all of you ('Tarantella64', 'mongo_nc' and 'bodyles'): thank you, a lot, for taking to time to both read (my long post) and comment on my situation. I appreciate your honesty and concern. I'm going to reflect on what you've (each) said. I'll keep reading your posts and will comment, again, whenever the time is right.

Yikes. These are very good questions, but I'm pretty sure I can't answer them well, if at all.

Understanding: I'm afraid this is going to make the picture even more SF, but here goes: Imagine that every person is attached to 30 or 40 others by elastic, vibrating bands. Some of the bands are strong and tough, others weak, but there are vibes going in all of them, back and forth, pretty much all the time, though not always at the same intensity. For the person at the center to feel good, the vibes have to be...yep, good vibes. Bad vibes propagate through the network. People learn that to be polite, to be a good friend, you're careful about the kind of vibes you give off. Best vibe: love. The most traumatic thing is for a bond to rupture. Or: forget the bands and imagine, instead, force fields that have the same effect.

That's horribly simplistic, but maybe a little helpful.

Understanding where NTs place you: wow. That's a really good question. Maybe I'll come back and try that one tomorrow.

Tarantella, again I grasp where you're coming from. I look at it like a computer network with different bandwidths, upload and download speeds. NTs are like an N router and Aspies having B wireless card. The wireless card can't go to N networking speeds so what happens is the N router has to slow down for the B wireless card.

oops, iPad just ate most of my reply. But: thing is, my analogy isn't really a good one, because it doesn't give any sense of how the people are influenced and changed by their connections. They're not static nodes. And there are intense senses of affiliation and group membership.

One of the most striking AS/NT differences I see is how people describe their own relationships with others. NTs will lose the focus on themselves very quickly and talk almost exclusively about the other person, because that feels natural to them. They'll just go describing the person's virtues. And people with AS will very quickly turn to describing how the other person affects their own life, their own feelings. The difference seems to me strongest in conversations about children. You will never hear NT-mom conversation that's primarily about how the children make them feel or what the children do to their lives. The conversation is all kid kid kid. In AS talk about kids the kids themselves vanish pretty fast -- I seldom get a sense of who these children are, what they like to do, their strengths, their problems...I don't read cute kid anecdotes...yeah, I don't know who any of these kids are.

If an NT mom were worried that she wasn't a good enough mom (and every NT mom is worried), her friends would reassure her, then go probing for whatever it was she thought she might be having trouble doing for her kid, and if there were anything at all to her worries, offer heaps of practical suggestions on how to do better and how to check in with the kid to make sure things were improving. In general what I see on WP is rather blithe reassurance that the kids are fine and will love the mom for her virtues (which she'll teach by example), and then the conversation moves on.

And I think that's symptomatic in AS-NT talk. I do not get a sense, in AS talk, that there's an awareness that the other person is, hour-by-hour, affected by the relationship, or that this relationship affects her other relationships. Example: I'm having stress at work dealing with unpleasant people; they send me crap email on weekends; I wind up so stressed that I snap at my daughter. Obviously I don't want that, so I start looking for how I can change things at work so I don't have to deal with those people and won't be so stressy at my daughter. Or: she got moved to a new school last year and had a horrible teacher; not only did it make her miserable, but her behavior at home got so awful that I moved heaven and earth to get her back into her old school. I just couldn't handle the stress of both work and her outbursts, and I didn't want to start reacting to her as a horribly stressed-out mom, because that would've been terrible for her. We arrange our relationships not just so that they feel good to us, but so we can treat other people in our networks well. Communal tending to good vibes, in other words.

Someone asked about how NTs will position people with AS in their networks: I think the above is a good example of why aspies often find themselves on the outside. If you're causing a lot of stress -- through rudeness, meltdowns, disorganization, or what have you -- and they don't have a way of putting you in a low-impact area of the network, they'll push you right out in order to preserve themselves and their relationships. My guess is that a lot of AS kids wind up having to leave home because their behavior generates so much stress and tension in the relationships among the other family members, not just in the family members themselves. If they all wind up arguing or fighting because they're so bruised and stressed by the AS kid's behavior -- even if it's something that seems as innocuous to the AS kid as "I'm 26 and live in the basement and show no signs of leaving the house to look for a job, and maybe once a month I throw a fit, and I don't remember hygiene too well but will shower if you remind me several times" -- then eventually the kid will lose to family harmony.

Maybe if these protected, low-impact areas are built in, it's easier. And I think some families do this without working it out consciously. In a big family like my friend's, for instance, he doesn't have to be in contact with everyone all the time. The family members who get him best and most enjoy him can be the point of contact, and they can take turns when they need to, so he always stays connected, even if he can't be very active in maintaining those connections.

Tarentella, if you don't mind will you please give specific examples of what you're talking about? Can you find some examples on this board?

Thank you for your efforts in explaining these things, Tarantella, they are very much appreciated. I have to admit that I didn’t understand much of your posts here, but your last post where you made comparisons between AS and NT were much more helpful for me. I would very much like to know more differences by comparison because that’s the only way I can understand this, the only way I can learn, and I so badly wish to understand what escapes me. Your posts made me wonder what that node thing really meant and how we are by comparison. I was reluctant to ask you once again for more but since Cubedemon already have I add my voice to that request. Can you please give more examples of how we are and you are? They are so helpful!


Can I say one thing though? You said you don’t get the sense that we get that people struggle with this hour for hour and that it impacts their relationship. If they don’t say anything about those relationships I might not take that into consideration, true, unless it’s something about the situation that makes it obvious to me. But if it’s someone I care about I do absolutely get that it’s part of their life all the time and that it affects them. Often I don’t know how to respond to that but I get it. But if it’s just something I read about, someone I don’t care about on a personal level, then I don’t take it into account.


By the way, about how we describe just as much how people impact our lives as the people themselves. I wasn’t aware of that, and I asked the person who knows me best and she claims I don’t. I will have to make a note to see how I talk about others, but I actually do think she’s correct in most cases at least.

What you said made me think of a situation where it generally seems to be opposite. When I have talked about my pets I talk pet pet pet (Nemo did this, Nikita ate that, Viggo did such), but it seems that NTs seem to talk about what the pet does for them (like making them get out and move about, always someone to come home to, always happy to see them etc).


Thanks again for all the effort. I hope you'll keep posting about these things. We need people who can do this for us if we are to understand about these issues.

That is the call my mother got 50 years ago although I don't think they used the word autism. They put me in a private religious school with smaller classes. Perceptive choice for 1965

One of my friends opened up and told me that she thought I was bitchy when she first met me because I was quiet and didn't say much and kind of seemed arrogant (aspie arrogance at work). Other people have told me that they thought I was a b***h initially. Which is so wierd because in my mind I do not want to say much when I meet people just because of social anxiety and not because I believe in my own inherent superiority or something.

This is just my own perspective as an NT who has contact with a few aspies and occasionally other people on the spectrum who I don't know as well.

I'd say that answer is going to vary a lot between the specific NTs and the specific person on the spectrum. Very high functioning aspies are't likely to trigger much conscious thought - perhaps just a feeling that this is someone who is quite introverted and bookish and they don't particularly enjoy socialising. Unfortunately, this is probably already enough for bullying idiots to use as ammunition.

Further into the spectrum NTs are likely to start getting a bit uncomfortable. We're used to the world working a certain way and it usually does for us so when we come across someone who doesn't behave in that way it can be disconcerting. If someone appears to be behaving strangely, some people may avoid them since they are scared that they might be dangerous or may put us in a difficult situation. Not all NTs are extroverts and socially confident so being put in an unusual situation socially can be scary for us at times too, especially when we're used to being able to read people and relate to them and suddenly come across someone who we can't. Fear of the unknown can cause people to react in a number of different ways, not all of which are pleasant. Ironically, it is possibly the same kind of feeling that aspies feel the whole time (of social anxiety) which scares NTs and can cause nasty responses. Unfortunately some people's reactions to fear are to attack or to deny that it exists, which I think explains a lot of why many NTs can be quite nasty to those on the spectrum.

The good thing is that this fear disappears as NTs gain greater understanding of the individuals and how the spectrum works. I'm fairly introverted, so I tend to avoid certain autistic people who I can occasionally come into contact with because I'm not comfortable with them coming up to me and giving me a hug (ironic, I realise given that it is that kind of thing that aspies can complain of). If that does happen, I tend to go very red in the face and not know quite how to react. Other NTs will seek them out and go and give them a hug proactively since they know that is what they want. Aspies are fairly easy for me to deal with though. I understand the very logical approach and I'm very aware of the need to spell some things out in detail and be aware of what assumptions I'm working on since I'm used to this mindset as a computer programmer and it translates well when I come across aspies (who also tend to appreciate my very literal sense of humour).

Another problem is treating autistic people as children. Few NTs understand that aspies especially are usually very intelligent people and that the area of difficulty is often entirely social. I suspect that even those of us who are familiar with the concept may find that we occasionally unconsciously fall back into thinking that we're talking to children and talk down, which is unfortunately quite condescending. The problem is that we usually have more experience of dealing with children than aspies and the experience can come across as being similar when interacting with less higher functioning individuals, triggering a similar reaction from us. This is compounded by the problem that it can be difficult in direct verbal communication to see that there is an adult intellect behind that childlike socially confused outward facet. I confess that there are times when I come across aspies who are so sincere and childlike and anxious that I feel that I want to pick them up and give them a big hug and say it will all be ok to stop them worrying.

NT woman here. I have a few friends on the spectrum, including an ex (who, in a strange turn of events, is now one of my polyamorous partners). Aspies I've met tend to be unflinchingly honest. What you see is what you get, which is incredibly refreshing. There is little subtext in their communication. They tend to have strong interests and an area of knowledge that they specialize in.

I've found that it's significantly easier for me to accommodate their communication style rather than vice versa. Accordingly, I am extremely direct and straightforward in their presence in a way that I probably wouldn't be if I were only around other NTs. As friends, they're great once you go through an initial adjustment period. As romantic partners, there are various inconveniences... e.g. I had to teach my ex (and current polyamorous partner) how to hug, kiss, etc. with lots of highly specific direction and feedback. To his credit, he picked it up fairly quickly. He's still not particularly vocal in his affections (which is what my NT partner is for!), but his actions suggest that my pleasure is important to him. My understanding is that, for an Aspie, taking any action to please another person is a reliable indicator of affection.

I had it explained to me once that I look a lot like a dog with a brick tied to its tail. Perpetually happy to see anyone they like, miserable to see anyone they don't, honest, confused, bright eyed, staggeringly smart, but constantly tripping over their tail.

I thought it was cute