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Above or below the Wealth Median

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auntblabby
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28 Apr 2015, 10:32 pm

justkillingtime wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


I take from what you said that resilience and hard work play a large role. My daughter has those traits and does very well. I have seen people work hard and go nowhere. I think there are many ingredients and I just feel some people are in poverty through no fault of their own. I am looking at it from the failure point of view and you are looking at it from a thriving perspective.

and of the two "sides" it can be said, "... and never the twain shall meet." each side fails to comprehend the other, like two totally different tribes. like venus and mars.



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28 Apr 2015, 10:38 pm

justkillingtime wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


I take from what you said that resilience and hard work play a large role. My daughter has those traits and does very well. I have seen people work hard and go nowhere. I think there are many ingredients and I just feel some people are in poverty through no fault of their own. I am looking at it from the failure point of view and you are looking at it from a thriving perspective.


But I have been on the failure side too, often people who find their success or happy place had to go through periods of failure to get there, so they do understand that side.


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justkillingtime
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28 Apr 2015, 10:41 pm

what was the tipping point? what did you do that put you on the right path?


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btbnnyr
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28 Apr 2015, 10:48 pm

justkillingtime wrote:
what was the tipping point? what did you do that put you on the right path?


Taking chances, going way out of my comfort zone to get opportunities, working really hard, and of course some amount of luck. But luck alone wouldn't have done anything. I don't think that I got anything by luck, even intellectual ability had to be developed and displayed. Also it is a fantasy that smart people have it easy, since smart people have higher eggspectations placed on them by others, often compete with equally smart people and choose to do much harder things that most people do.


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28 Apr 2015, 11:29 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


It would seem some people also think that when someone is doing badly or not succeeding, they simply aren't trying hard enough. People who really are trying and still struggling very much with various aspects of life and trouble functioning get sick of hearing how they're just lazy, giving up too easy, or not trying hard enough. That does not necessarily justify assuming anyone doing better got there through luck alone or anything like that....but I can see how a frustrated individual might see it that way and lose sight of the fact a lot of people have gotten where they are by genuine effort and hard work. Also some people do run into a lot of luck, and some people are actually born into wealth they didn't particularly 'earn' so its not entirely inaccurate to say some of the well off have more or less had it handed to them....doesn't mean all though.


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btbnnyr
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28 Apr 2015, 11:44 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


It would seem some people also think that when someone is doing badly or not succeeding, they simply aren't trying hard enough. People who really are trying and still struggling very much with various aspects of life and trouble functioning get sick of hearing how they're just lazy, giving up too easy, or not trying hard enough. That does not necessarily justify assuming anyone doing better got there through luck alone or anything like that....but I can see how a frustrated individual might see it that way and lose sight of the fact a lot of people have gotten where they are by genuine effort and hard work. Also some people do run into a lot of luck, and some people are actually born into wealth they didn't particularly 'earn' so its not entirely inaccurate to say some of the well off have more or less had it handed to them....doesn't mean all though.


Ackshuly, what you said is not what I think at all. I generally don't fault people for not succeeding by traditional definitions of their personal definitions or my definitions. Often people want to attribute those opinions to me if I say something about myself trying and working hard. What I mean is that for me, most things I did were not due to luck, but that hard work, persistence/resilience, and taking personal responsibility were major contributors. I refuse to accept the idea that what I worked for was mostly luck.


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28 Apr 2015, 11:48 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


It would seem some people also think that when someone is doing badly or not succeeding, they simply aren't trying hard enough. People who really are trying and still struggling very much with various aspects of life and trouble functioning get sick of hearing how they're just lazy, giving up too easy, or not trying hard enough. That does not necessarily justify assuming anyone doing better got there through luck alone or anything like that....but I can see how a frustrated individual might see it that way and lose sight of the fact a lot of people have gotten where they are by genuine effort and hard work. Also some people do run into a lot of luck, and some people are actually born into wealth they didn't particularly 'earn' so its not entirely inaccurate to say some of the well off have more or less had it handed to them....doesn't mean all though.


Ackshuly, what you said is not what I think at all. I generally don't fault people for not succeeding by traditional definitions of their personal definitions or my definitions. Often people want to attribute those opinions to me if I say something about myself trying and working hard. What I mean is that for me, most things I did were not due to luck, but that hard work, persistence/resilience, and taking personal responsibility were major contributors. I refuse to accept the idea that what I worked for was mostly luck.


I don't mean you think that...but there are people who do, which can causes bitterness towards more well off people. I mean if someone is used to wealthier people looking down their nose at them and acting 'superior' they might not be as receptive to the idea some people who are more well off really did work for that and got there through their efforts and choices rather than just having been born into it....or stepping on people to get there. In your case it very well could have been more the things you mention than luck.


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btbnnyr
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29 Apr 2015, 12:01 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I think that when some people see someone else doing well or succeeding, they might attribute the other person's success to luck or higher quality frontal lobes whatever that means instead of the person's own efforts to do what they are doing and trying to deal with difficulties that they may also have, including EF problems, social problems, sensory problems, etc. There seems like an insistence sometimes that people are lucky, won genetic lottery, have rich parents, lesser autistic traits, etc, even when the person says that they worked really hard for what they have, had to deal with as many or as strong autistic traits as many others, didn't have economic advantage, etc.


It would seem some people also think that when someone is doing badly or not succeeding, they simply aren't trying hard enough. People who really are trying and still struggling very much with various aspects of life and trouble functioning get sick of hearing how they're just lazy, giving up too easy, or not trying hard enough. That does not necessarily justify assuming anyone doing better got there through luck alone or anything like that....but I can see how a frustrated individual might see it that way and lose sight of the fact a lot of people have gotten where they are by genuine effort and hard work. Also some people do run into a lot of luck, and some people are actually born into wealth they didn't particularly 'earn' so its not entirely inaccurate to say some of the well off have more or less had it handed to them....doesn't mean all though.


Ackshuly, what you said is not what I think at all. I generally don't fault people for not succeeding by traditional definitions of their personal definitions or my definitions. Often people want to attribute those opinions to me if I say something about myself trying and working hard. What I mean is that for me, most things I did were not due to luck, but that hard work, persistence/resilience, and taking personal responsibility were major contributors. I refuse to accept the idea that what I worked for was mostly luck.


I don't mean you think that...but there are people who do, which can causes bitterness towards more well off people. I mean if someone is used to wealthier people looking down their nose at them and acting 'superior' they might not be as receptive to the idea some people who are more well off really did work for that and got there through their efforts and choices rather than just having been born into it....or stepping on people to get there. In your case it very well could have been more the things you mention than luck.


You mean that some people make negative generalizations to include all well off people from certain well of people who treated them badly before? Then they think that all well off people didn't work for what they have? That seems like fantasy world building to deal with one's own emotional problems in a maladapative way. This is the kind of thinking that I reject. It is like putting down others because one has been put down by others before. I think it is really putting down others to say that others did well just by luck.


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29 Apr 2015, 12:05 am

I think it is a sweeping generalization or stereotyping. Maybe, it is related to black-and-white thinking.


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btbnnyr
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29 Apr 2015, 12:59 am

One thing I never found helpful to me in anything was resenting others for what they have that I don't have or any other reason either. I just find it useless thinking pattern to me, and I don't understand what people who do this get out of it that helps them.


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29 Apr 2015, 1:05 am

btbnnyr wrote:
One thing I never found helpful to me in anything was resenting others for what they have that I don't have or any other reason either. I just find it useless thinking pattern to me, and I don't understand what people who do this get out of it that helps them.


I sort of agree with that...I don't really care about what people have, its more when there are resources to provide everyone with a semi-comfortable livning, yet you have people with enough wealth to last them 10 lifetimes, while there are people barely getting by in the same society...so it makes it apparent there is a very real division based on this.


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29 Apr 2015, 4:05 am

I am fortunate to have access to the NT side of my family, which hobnobbed more with the jet set, as well as other sources, and I think that people often get ahead in business by cheating when they can. Sometimes it is insurance, sometimes taxes, sometimes taking advantage of vendors, sometimes stealing at work, as long as it is quite safe and unobtrusive. In tests, people seem to accept 15% padding on a bill as a normal self-gratuity. Those who don't cheat may make up for it in reputation in a few fields, but overall, it seems like a major handicap.



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29 Apr 2015, 1:10 pm

Dear_one wrote:
I am fortunate to have access to the NT side of my family, which hobnobbed more with the jet set, as well as other sources, and I think that people often get ahead in business by cheating when they can. Sometimes it is insurance, sometimes taxes, sometimes taking advantage of vendors, sometimes stealing at work, as long as it is quite safe and unobtrusive. In tests, people seem to accept 15% padding on a bill as a normal self-gratuity. Those who don't cheat may make up for it in reputation in a few fields, but overall, it seems like a major handicap.

humans make an ugly world, no? I guess that's why in the good book it talks about how the spiritual person should be in this world but not OF it.



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29 Apr 2015, 1:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
One thing I never found helpful to me in anything was resenting others for what they have that I don't have or any other reason either. I just find it useless thinking pattern to me, and I don't understand what people who do this get out of it that helps them.


I sort of agree with that...I don't really care about what people have, its more when there are resources to provide everyone with a semi-comfortable livning, yet you have people with enough wealth to last them 10 lifetimes, while there are people barely getting by in the same society...so it makes it apparent there is a very real division based on this.


I don't really focus on the few wealthy people, most of the people I know and interact with make low to moderate salary. Older people make more, but what looks like high salary isn't so much in Southern California, where the cost of living is so high.


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29 Apr 2015, 7:07 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I reject the idea that what I worked for is primarily attributed to luck and genes, I think that I had a good genetic basis for intellectual potential, but I also had strong autistic traits from birth, and these are likely also genetic. I attribute most of my successes and failures to what I did and choices I made.


I agree choices I made and actions I took were crucially important factors. However to those, in my case, I would add two other factors:
1) luck
2) being found by a great mentor at a crucial stage of my career - which was also a form of luck in that I met her when I did and she was dedicated to mentoring me in superbly helpful ways.

I would never, ever claim that it is "just about willpower". Personally I don't think willpower alone gets you very far - you need planning, foresight, timing, the ability to match your primary talents to ways of expressing them, goals, and (I reiterate) luck.



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30 Apr 2015, 1:18 am

Action is the most important.
If someone feels motivated about something but doesn't take the actions to follow through, then the result is the same as if the person is not motivated at all.


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