Husband may be Aspie - should I push him to get a diagnosis?

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Deleted because my husband is lurking. I wrote this when I was upset and I don't want you to misinterpret. I'll tell you everything I said later.

Last edited by tlaquepaque on 24 Nov 2010, 8:27 am, edited 3 times in total.

In my experience (albeit limited), solid communication in a relationship is the only way things work long term regardless of the relationship in question. Especially literal, vocal communication, in your case, as he may not pick up on subtle communication or even realize how you feel.

He needs to hear how you feel, know what issues you are having, and decide for himself what he will do from there, taking him to a doctor in itself wont fix much, however it may be a way to relay how you feel to him if you have trouble communicating it yourself.

People cant always easily change, and you may have to work hard to just accept certain traits or aspects and decide whether or not its worth that to you. Just bare that in mind in the near future as things either work out or they don't. Good luck.

I have to agree with him, a diagnosis will not help much, and if he does not want to fix certian problems, they are not going to be fixed. If he knows he probably has it that is enough.

I have to agree that literal vocal communication is the only way to go. Do not expect him to read between the lines, or understand your perspective, nor read body language.

In terms of inflexibility, it differs greatly, but the truth of the matter is if you are getting in arguements you are never going to win. You need to work on your own communication skills in terms of negotiating with him, and that is not an easy task. Quite literally there are certian issues which are better negotiated than argued over, and if they cause an arguement, they really should be taken off the table. One of the biggest problems NT partners and family members have with AS partners is thinking they can win points of arguements. There is a reality...you never can, once our mind is set on something we become fierce advocates. Don't expect apologies, and don't expect them to understand your perspective if you explain it in emotional terms. Don't expect them to read between the lines either. Quite litterally you have to put things out there through intellectual discussion, not emotional discussion. One of the problems that NT is approach things emotionally with people with AS, it doesn't work, it ends in heated debates, meltdowns, etc in which they will ALWAYS end up losing and never recieve an apology . Instead of saying "try to understand my perspective", you need to put forth "try to understand this potential outcome that may come from this particular series of events". You have to explain it logically, within reason, and without an emotional perspective. Yes we are emotional creatures, but we cannot be reasoned with emotionally, it has to be intellectually and rationally. The minute it gets emotional you need to pull out of the discussion and end it. Emotional arguements end up blowing up in the person who does not have an ASD face, it is called a meltdown for a reason, and it often leaves embittered feelings that linger within the person with an ASD.

The tie thing is understandable, people with ASD have sensory issues, this is something YOU need to understand. If he is inflexible on certian things, it might be for a reason.

If he knows he probably has it, he needs to take care of these things on his own. Don't push him into getting a diagnosis, getting a diagnosis does not help with underlying issues anyway. And the rigidity and inflexibility are kind of part of the package. Pushing him to do something is not going to help. In terms of his job, if he is comfortable with it, and is doing it well, and likes it, don't push him to do something different.

The best advice is the fact that you cannot change somebody with an ASD, they can only change themselves. You can make suggestions, but never ultimatums.

Also your husband sounds a bit like a Sheldon (Big Bang Theory), like most people on the show you may realize, sometimes things are not worth fighting over.

Lastly and this is important. In many ways it is not easy for people with ASD to adapt, instead we seek environments which are comfortable, or that already fit us. That is why his friends share similiar interests, it gives him a common level of communication. Don't disrupt this. Don't think you can. Learning where we can be flexible, and were we cannot is how we manage this. Don't expect to rock the boat to much, you may see him as unreasonable, but you need to learn were those lines of flexibility are and where they are not. Remember he has to adjust to the parts which are disabilities and the parts which are assets. Not you. You are not the one with a disability. Let me repeat that the burden is on YOU to adapt to the situation and recognize were there is not room for that.
Also the interests of a person with ASD shift with time, if you want some type of connection again, you need to learn to be that interest again. His obsessions are a gateway if you figure out how to share those, that may be a way to streagthen the relationship. Conflicts are not. You need to learn the areas which do cause conflict and meltdowns and avoid them like the plague. Don't pressure him because that will only backfire. Don't put him in situations in which he may meltdown. Try to actually talk to him and ask VERBAL questions about what situations cause problems for him, and listen. The diagnosis by the way is of no use, its just that, a diagnosis. If he doesn't want to change, he doesn't want to change, it is only when he wants to address issues himself will he try to address some of these issues. The truth is many of the aspects cannot be treated anyway, just managed. Some of us do a better job of this than others. But the burden to adapt is on you, a relationship with somebody with an ASD is not necessarily a two way street. It is more like complex regulatory law or advance mathmatics. Communication is different and situations need to be approached differently than NT relationships. You need to learn the language in which he is working within to communicate with him in the relationship, his language, his thought process.

You need to learn to communicate on his terms, not yours. He is not going to communicate on your terms, no matter how much you desire that. Empathetic reasoning is not going to really work.

Some therapy might help with the social issues. I agree with the others in that you are going to have to learn how to communicate in VERY concrete, literal terms. The reality is that his brain simply cannot process the subtle, highly nuanced, emotional, non-verbal language of NT's. It's not that we don't want to, we just can't do it because we are not wired that way.

I'm not sure if you meant the Sheldon comment as a joke or not but thanks for the laugh. He is a Sheldon but not as severe and is able to appear normal socially with effort.

The advice on intellectual discussion vs. emotional discussion is a good one. Our communication isn't that great. We don't have that much time to talk anyway.

I appreciate your comments and thoughts. I do understand that there are things that he can't change. I accommodate him and his needs most of the time. My thing about the diagnosis is this: if he gets a diagnosis he will attend therapy sessions and may be able to work through some of his issues. I work with this population as a professional and I feel I have reasonable expectations but I don't believe that there is nothing that can be done to improve symptoms. I feel like if I am expected to change everything then he should at least go to a psychologist and make an effort. I'm not one to push for labels and diagnosis normally. It's just that I believe that there is help available for these things that are so difficult for him. Even though he can't connect with me emotionally he can make a choice to respect my feelings and make an effort.

Please don't take this the wrong way, if you feel this way you are in the wrong profession. One of the biggest problems with NT who "treat" people with ASDs is they often don't understand our perspective on this issue. Let me be quite frank with you, therapy can only help so much, there are limitations to it and it cannot be forced or pushed into. You cannot push him into it, people with ASD are notoriously stubborn. We have to get to the point where we want any type of therapy on our own. The fact is who he is is not something to be "fixed". I mean even to the point of "respecting your feelings" you are talking about emotional communication, something that really doesn't work very well with people with ASDs. You need to take the emotional aspect out to be honest, or you will be alienated. Having him understand your perspective, needs to be done without the "respecting your feelings". You may be working with people with ASD but you barely understand us. Think about it this way, our deficits are ultimately in emotional reasoning. In many cases our intellectual reasoning skills are fine. Your problem is you are seeking to have him "respect your feelings", when in fact that may not even be the real resolution to your issues. That is what I am trying to get accross, as long as you make this emotional, there are going to be issues. If you take out the emotional component, and and focus on non-emotional, non-conflict based communication that uses intellectual reasoning, you are going to have alot more success. "Respecting your feelings" is still trying to make him understand emotional communication, when in fact that is at issue. He doesn't speak that language very well, its in deficit, you need to communicate in a different form, in a language he understands. Therapy is not going to help this, because the change ultimately will have to happen on your end, it might actually help you professionally as well, because right now there is some fundimental problems with how you understand how people with ASD work. These are core issues, and they will hurt you professionally as well. If you don't understand how a person with ASD thinks and communicates, how do you expect to teach them to better manage their communication with the larger world. Right now I see a problem on your end, you are sounding like a typical NT woman who has problems understanding people with AS, not a woman who should be working with them as part of thier profession. You are missing core fundimental issues.

I tend to agree with starygrrl. It doesn't sound like he feels like he wants or needs help. Maybe he's comfortable with who he is. Maybe he finds it terribly offensive that you want to change him. If your motives were to get him help solely for his own well being, than that might be different. But expecting someone to change for your own personal gain is somewhat selfish and manipulative.

Ultimately, in a marriage, if something in the relationship is not working out, the only real control you have is over your own actions. If there's trouble with communication, then you need to work on finding more effective methods. You can't expect him to seek help for your problems as it sounds like it's a one way street on the subject.

Usually by 10 years in, a couple has come to some sort of acceptance agreement with each other and the 'change your ways' nonsense is out the window. Does he accept you for who you are, the good, bad and the ugly? Do you truly accept him for who he is? Has the new AS discovery changed the game, or do you think of him the same as you did before knowing? I obviously don't have these answers but they're good questions to ask yourself.

As a sidenote, the diagnosis itself can come with unintended consequences so it should be carefully thought out first. Sadly, he's probably right about getting discriminated against at the job. There can also be insurance ramifications.

You keep saying "us" like he has joined your autism spectrum club. Well, he doesn't even have a diagnosis. Maybe he's just OCD with a side of social phobia. I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis like this. If I didn't understand a little bit about what the world was like for you and him then I would just say he's an a**hole and move on. I get it, I do. I do not bring emotions into my communications with my clients. Sometimes I work on interpreting facial expressions and tone of voice if that is a goal of an individual. Heck, I'm even an extremely liberal therapist and I don't try to teach eye contact because it's not important to most of my clients. I think you need to understand that this is my husband. Of 10 years. I know him and his capabilities and his IS capable of understanding "if my wife feels x then I should do x to make her feel different". I'm not saying he is able to understand my emotions but you are selling yourself short if you don't think you are capable of comprehending a "first/then" scenario. Even my non-verbal clients understand that with a visual aid. He is capable of making a choice of doing something to make someone else happy even if he doesn't want to do it if it gets him something that he wants. And I know that he wants me to be happy. This is what I mean by "respecting my feelings". Note that I did NOT say understand my feelings and empathize. If he gives it a try maybe he could get something out of therapy. Maybe he would go willingly, I don't know. I haven't approached him with a direct request that he schedule an appointment and go see a doctor. I've been trying to decide on if it would be beneficial for him or not. I was making the point in my first post that he doesn't need it for work unless he wants to try to get out of the "initiate a social interaction" goal. I don't care where he works and he doesn't have to tell them if he doesn't want to. I don't care if he has 7 pairs of the exact same pants, I don't care if he eats chicken and a baked potato 4 nights a week. These are things that I've let go of long ago. I was just thinking last night that wouldn't it be nice, for the both of us, if he didn't freak out when something doesn't go the right way. We have two kids, one of whom quite possibly could be aspie himself, and kids don't always follow a schedule. Sometimes he might have to cancel a game night to take care of sick kids because I have to work. Wouldn't it be nice if he could learn some strategies on how to adapt in these situations? I'm not ready to accept that there is NOTHING he can do to make things easier for us because he hasn't even tried. The reason I asked here is because I wanted a perspective of if this was something I should enable him to do. Apparently it's not.

But the thing is, if I just sat back and waited for all children on the autism spectrum to initiate communication then several of my clients would still be sitting in a corner of the classroom playing with toys and being confused by the activities around them and the things they are expected to do. If you asked them and if they could answer they would say that they like themselves the way they are and see no need to change anything. Instead, now after therapy, each of them are able to tell me and their parents amazing things. And with visual aids and communication devices they can go on a field trip with the class and not panic. They can ride the bus independently and participate in the classroom. I have boy with classic aspergers who is applying to colleges right now and after I suggested it we are working on interviewing skills. My point is that sometimes it takes another person to enable them and give a little push. I was wondering if this was one of those cases.

To number5 - he is my husband, of course I love him for who he is. But that doesn't mean our lives can't be better with a little help. Since I've started to learn about AS I've actually demanded and expected less of him. Yes, it may be selfish but I might be to the point where I need to do something a little selfish to save our marriage. I need to know the consequences of taking this selfish road if I proceed. What are the unintended consequences of a diagnosis? Work doesn't have to know or will they find out from the insurance? And what does insurance companies do with the information?

To starygrrl: This is the kind of information I need. Not a judgment on whether I'm a suitable speech therapist because I get emotional with issues relating to my own husband. You have no idea of how I perform professionally since all I have presented to you is my relationship with a person who may or may not have aspergers. Understanding the perspective of a person with this disorder is something I aspire to but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that my husband may be a part of this.

It is easier to address kids issues because they can be taught how to manage situations, even then there is limitations though, as an adult we become a little bit more set in our ways because we know what works for us. This is less likely that is going to happen as an adult. Truth be told he probably already knows his limitations and what he can and cannot manage. Alot of things we do are coping strategies and ways that we manage what we have. Sometimes when people throw a wrench in our routines and obsessions it can have very negative impacts. You want the best possible relationship with your husband, understand this. Those things he may feircly defend and may be places he is demonstrating no flexibility maybe part of how he manages his life ways to decompress. Trust me, the more you get a feel for those things which are ways he manages his life and decompresses, the better off you will be. The key to being with somebody with an ASD (or OCD for that matter) is learning how to avoid conflict and approach things non-emotionally.

There is are reasons while Female AS/Male NT works out frequently better than Femal NT/Male AS. There is more social pressure with a female nt, than a male nt. For example if I ask to skip out on a party because I cannot handle it because I am having sensory issues, there is no problem with my partner. But I went into the relationship understanding my limits and negotiated them early on. AS men are less likely to do so, and also more likely to have conflicts over those limits, conversely NT women are much less flexible on social issues and dealing with thier partners coping mechanisms. Things like "family obligations" such as family parties may be a place of constant stress for a person with an ASD and may risk a meltdown, but they be something which is forced in the relationship itself.

Let me go into this deeper, I have been to therapy recently as an adult for issues related to ASD. It is helpful at identifying situations that may cause a meltdown and identifying successful ways to manage. Basically recognizing when I may be in trouble because of overstimulation issues and need some time to decompress. It helped me communicate the issue to my partner, and be able to address it before it got more severe. It also helped me identify no-go situations that it is best for me to stay out of entirely. That is what therapy helps with, it helps better communicate when I have issues and manage my life. It also helped me deal with areas of extreme stress and to change the situation where I could avoid that. It does not help respecting my partners feelings or improve situational empathy. The reality is I have a veto over situations which are problematic for me because of certian limitations I have at that point in time. Therapy helped me better communicate when there may be a potential problems, and let me explain why I have to opt out. I am not sure this is the change you are going to be looking for, because largely it is made to help make life more manageable for the person with the ASD, not make life easier on the NT partner or make the person with the ASD better understand the NT partner. It is a way to avoid conflicts and avoid meltdowns. That is why I said the key is conflict avoidance with people with ASDs, don't expect them to "understand" you because quite frankly that may never happen. Instead of I can't do this, it really just says I can't do this because it would be the wrong environment to be in and may cause a degree of overstimulation today that may result in a meltdown if I am not careful. I have an option to opt out of nearly every social meeting with my partner if I am not in a good place. By the way there is no such thing as family obligations (family obligations are rarely ever actual obligations, rather optional events they choose) to a person with an ASD either, the opt out provision is literally pretty sweeping, family parties, funerals, etc, are all optional. Thankfully, it is part of the reason me and my family do not talk is because they were part of my problem, they were causing unneeded anxiety and stress, so I have no family "obligations". Part of the way I managed was ceasing communication with my mother, father, siblings and all extended family. It took that much for me to finally get rid of that stress, I have problems being around strangers I share nothing whether they are blood relatives or not (hint I don't go to other peoples family parties either). I know this may sound weird, but I am one of the happier, stable and more successful people with an ASD, partially because I managed to reduce the issues of anxiety and stress in my life, and am able to go to social events when I am up to it, and opt out when I am not. I know my boundaries and they are set in stone. There are limits to therapy with people with ASDs, ultimately we percieve and think about the world differently, therapy just helps better manage this, nothing more. We have to work on our own terms, if he already does things to help manage and make his life more manageable, be it his job or his game nights, it is better not to mess with those routines than interupt them no matter the circumstance. The truth is living with a person with AS is not easy because the terms of the relationship are very different.

The kids issue may be another one entirely because that does complicate things.

I just got back from my husband's work Thanksgiving dinner. It's a company wide meal. I show up and everyone is talking and mingling. Of course, I didn't even look for him among that group. I knew he was hiding in his office until I got there to facilitate the social interactions. He needs me to be that social communicator for him. That used to annoy the hell out of me but I'm okay with it now. My son was with me and the two of them basically just keep to themselves. It makes it awkward for me because I want to talk to people but I feel like I'm dragging dead weight behind me. If someone initiates a conversation they will respond but they aren't going to seek it out. I can see what you mean though about children being more pliable. I've been working with my son since he started talking on pragmatic skills and I'm hoping he'll have an easier time as an adult but the fact is he'll never be the social butterfly that his sister is. I'm completely fine with that since I secretly adore "nerds" anyway. There is no need for a diagnosis for my son right now. He's functional at school and we've been able to work through our issues so far. But he's only 6 so who knows what will be necessary in the future.

I know what you mean about the social pressure for a female NT. It's true. We do have couple friends but they are all people that he was friends with first. It has never worked out for us to be friends with a couple when I make friends with the female first. The husbands always think my husband is too different. That hurts me sometimes that people can't see past that. My husband is incredibly intelligent and interesting and I wish more people could see that. It leaves me feeling isolated a lot. I don't have a mother, female friends are hard for me to make because my husband is "different" and my husband's mother is likely aspie too. And we live next door to my in-laws. We built our house next to theirs because I watch my husband completely relax when he's at his parents house. They are predictable and consistent and they don't expect anything out of him. So, here I am an extroverted person who needs that emotional connection and I'm surrounded by all the AS! The isolation didn't really hit me until I had kids. My husband says he wants to be that person for me but honestly, it's not worth putting all that on him since I have to tell him how I want him to respond.

So, yeah, this post is mostly about trying to meet my needs in our relationship but I spend such an incredible amount of time and effort taking care of this family of people that I don't think a help for me is that much to ask. We'll see how it works out. My husband has gone to the doctor for medication for anxiety in the past. It didn't work out for him (the side effects were too much even though the meds helped the anxiety) and he just gave up. Maybe he'll want to go back someday.

Last edited by tlaquepaque on 26 Nov 2010, 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I hope you don't mind, but I'm gonna be straight with you.

IMO, this is where the epic failure begins. You cannot command respect if you are unable to be respectful. I've read a whole bunch of nothing but me, me, me, and you have yet to acknowledge his feelings about himself and who he is (AS or not, it really doesn't even matter). You seem to be exhibiting a total lack of empathy for your husband, which only serves to prove that lack of empathy is not solely an AS trait. It's really just a stereotype that often does not apply to people with AS. You seem to have a lot to learn about AS and autism in general, so I sincerely hope that you stick around and read what others have to say around here.

You seem to be addressing the issue with your husband as if he was a child. He's not. Nor is he a client. He is a grown human being who has gotten quite far in life (job, marriage, kids). He has likely come up with his own coping mechanisms that work for him. You mentioned that he has issues with schedule changes, but what exactly does that mean? Does he yell, kick, cry, and scream? Does he just sort of shut down? Does he become overly annoyed and agitated? Are the kids negatively affected? If you're hoping to get him to happily agree with changes, that's very unlikely to happen. It might be possible to help him find alternative ways to deal with it, but you must first acknowledge and accept that change is very hard for him. Your motive must be to make it easier for him first, and this is what will ultimately result in improving your marriage. I mentioned this in more depth on another thread, but in a marriage, if you want to receive more love, you must give more love. If you want to receive more respect, you must first give more respect, and so on. Selfishness will never improve a marriage.

You also mentioned that you have a son who may have AS. I believe this is where your focus should be. As starygrrl mentioned, kids are much easier to teach than adults. AS kids often need help in different areas, but the main one being to help open doors for them. Have you addressed your son's possible AS? Is he still very young? There's a wealth of information about kids on the spectrum, as well as ADD, OCD, etc. in the parent's forum. You should check it out. This is actually how I found this place as my oldest son has AS. From his diagnosis, I learned that I myself likely have AS - hence the bluntness. Apologies if any of this sounds harsh as that's not my intention.

Oh, and with the diagnosis, it could become an issue with insurance as it could possibly be perceived as a pre-existing condition, or grounds for higher premiums wrt life insurance policies. We don't really know for sure where health care is going, but it could mean a high-risk pool with higher premiums in the future, in the US anyway. If he becomes classified as a person with a disability, then he's entitled to certain accommodations under the ADA, but that's a bit of a double-edged sword as many employers avoid people with disabilities like the plague because there's no special right to employment clause, or anything like that. There could also be legal issues if the marriage ended in divorce and custody battles ensued. He would have a big strike against him as a parent with AS to an ignorant judge. All things to consider before jumping in.

Just read you other post (I was still typing mine while it was posted). Sounds like you just need a break. Nothing wrong with that, all moms do from time to time, myself included. I'm not very social so I don't have many suggestions, but maybe you could take a class, or join a club. I used to have a neighbor that loved going on weekend girl retreats with everything from scrapbooking to strippers. She always came back with a huge smile. She was also a social butterfly while her husband was not so she just left him at home with the kids for a much deserved break. He was just happy to not have to go anywhere. Maybe something like that would work out better in your situation.

Yes, the kids and my husband love "Daddy day". They sit around in their jammies and play games and have a great time. That time to myself does help some.

I will read more about children and aspergers. I know the average age of diagnosis is older than my son is so I'm not in a rush. The school psychologist is taking him now for testing for the "gifted" program. I'm waiting to see if he notices any of his other quirks. He's a brilliant student academically but, well, you know. He did receive early intervention service for speech/language and OT but was released from services after preschool.

Also, I don't think I would ever tell a mom, especially one who is in grad school and spends the rest of her time taking care of the kids and the husband and house, that she is being selfish and needs to spend MORE time taking care of others and less time thinking about herself. Give me a break here. People with AS do not have the exclusive rights to meltdowns and freak outs. It happens to the best of us. I was just hoping I could have help from a therapist in taking care of my husband's state of mind. I just don't know if that can happen without a diagnosis.

Let me be very clear, anti-anxiety drugs usually do not work because they were primarily designed for NT patients. They have done studies on folks with NVLD and AS and have found in many cases that it did not do much to help since anxiety is often a circumstance of our perception and sensory issues. Learning coping mechanisms and life management helps a great deal more.

I have to also state the issue with insurance, in the next couple of years that may not be an issue because of the new law. For people with disabilities, especially ASD the new law was a big win, as it ends discriminatory practices that prevented many of us from seeking treatment.

I've had good results from 25-50mg Seroquel doses, though. Not a traditional anti-anxiety drug, but it helps.

Back to the diagnosis thing - you might have to put the marriage on the line to get through to him. Are you ready for that? He's lived all his life adapting to the impossible and that builds up a lot of momentum.

I'd been through the decay and destruction of my child-rearing relationship, and the one that came after that was on the line before I twigged.

I just wanted to chime in. Theres no reason her husband cant make any effort to make things work if he is capable, and nothing tells me yet that he simply isnt. If he is not capable to accommodate what she wants then theres no reason they cant communicate that together and work it out step by step, as long as they can communicate effectively, and decide what the best course of action is. Just because he is the one with the 'disability' does not absolve him from trying or even talking about it, imo. A scenario where he could improve in certain respects is not unfathomable. Not that I am saying it is his fault or anything either, but relationships are two sided regardless of which one you are in. It is unfair to tell someone that an issue they are having with their spouse just needs to be dealt with and accepted when they feel their needs are not being met when none of us know the exact details of the situation, at all.

Lets please not point fingers in situations we do not understand fully.

tlaquepague: WrongPlanet tends to be unique in a sense that many are likely to say things exactly as they are thinking them, nothing more or less. Dont take anything personally said here by anyone. It helps to read with that perspective and an open mind.