On independence.

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The ‘In-Depth Adult Life Forum’ is more focused than the ‘General Autism Discussion’ Forum; that is discussions orientated toward older Asperger adults are too often rarely, or decisively discussed elsewhere.

Yet, in-depth discussions on maintaining, and even boosting independence are too often “lost in the shuffle.” My post ‘What if “self-advocacy” alone is not enough??’ is an example.

Discussions must deconstruct the concrete and tangible aspects of what supports are both necessary, and appropriate regarding Asperger adult independence.

The topic of Asperger adult independence needs to be reclaimed and maintained, complete with the gravitas (for lack of a better word) that both boosts Asperger adult awareness, as well as encouraging specific action plans in defining (and redefining) what it means to be independent!

I am in the spectrum. The reason for calling it a spectrum is the variety of people populating the description.

Writing a tutorial on independence covering all these diverse folks would be daunting and possibly larger than space would allow in this format.

When asked what autism is like I compare us to redheads. Using my silly definition the tutorial could be on independence for redheads.

Each case, each person, needs a unique plan fitting their unique strengths.
My path to indepence was manual labor. I am strong with excellent coordination. Not all are.
I cannot do sit down work. Some find it their only.

Specific questions on specific situations fit the format, when advice has to fit too many situations at the same time it ends up vague and without detail.

That said, are you having a particular difficulty with independent living? Having spent all but 4 years independent I have been through many experiences I could comment on.

I think those discussions are helpful, but there never seems to be definite answers or resources available in a lot of instances. There are a lot of personal stories on how people have developed their own strategies for coping, but there seems to be little in outside constructive support in place if you're on the less severe side of the spectrum. I think if the answers are taken in as a collective, people might find some answers or ideas to help in their own particular situations.

A common thread on independence for Asperger adults involves advocacy, advisors, financial agendas, etc.

- My post 'What if Self Advocacy Alone is Not Enough??' http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt223533.html -

- The AASCEND agency www.aascend.org is one of the few agencies "ahead of the curve" regarding support resources.

Looks interesting, thanks for the link.

The lack of in-depth discussions on maintaining, boosting, and defining (or redefining) the concrete and tangible facets of independence for Asperger adults is not only stunning, but outright dissapointing!

The classic case of collective sentiments becoming a (counterproductive) self-fulfilling prophecy applies. Yet, why are these very sentiments (mostly from our natural "blind-spots") continuing to prevail in all places; an Asperger Forum that has done an awesome job of raising awareness on Aspergers, as well as helping people involved with, or living with Aspergers progress?

Good examples are discussed in my dicussion thread 'What if 'Self Advocacy Alone is Not enough?'' http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt223533.html

Thank-you

I am a 31 year old aspie, and I agree that the lack of discussion is disappointing, but what I find more disturbing is that there doesn't seem to be a desire or belief that we can be independent. This may be an enormous leap in logic, but it might have something to do with the younger generation. I've noticed a pervasive sense of entitlement with this group. Another thing I hear over and over again is something to the effect of "it's too hard!". I've lost friends who were people that constantly give reasons why they CAN'T do something instead of opening their minds and trying before they throw in the towel. Maybe this is my own flaw; I can't accept people who give up so easily or whine all the time. The tone of this message board says it all.

I've spent my entire life fighting for my independence and only recently had to move back in with my father due to financial reasons. (Economy, out of work for months), but now I'm in a stable job and plan to be independent again by next winter. I won't give up this fight.

I understand that some aspies aren't high functioning enough to live on their own - it can be a challenge for me, too. I guess I have some fundamental drive to live on my own.

I agree with the last poster,,Ive been independent most of my life,,my home life to me was worse then dealing with the nts..I agree,there is that sense of entitlement in the younger aspies,,perhaps..that is what having a label does..I grew up without a label..was expected to succeed,,and I figured out ways to do that,,nowadays,,it seems,,im an aspie,, im disabled..might as well give up,, Im glad I DIDN'T get a label back then.

I also didn't get a label until I was 29.

Thank-you for your responses. A discussion thread devoted to boosting independent living needs that gravitas (for lack of a better word)!

Many Asperger adults wisely feel they must further boost independent living savvy!

- My post 'What if Self Advocacy Alone is Not Enough??' is an example: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt223533.html

- The AASCEND agency www.aascend.org is one of the few agencies "ahead of the curve" regarding support resources.

Best Wishes,

Asperger adults can boost independence (in the eyes of their families); both through self-advocacy, as well as judgment as to when to enlist trustworthy advisors/advocates to assist with those "more complicated agendas!"

For example, has anybody found the purchase of an automobile a daunting task (even when you have the necessary funds); that is the understanding of paperwork, contracts, and face-to-face experiences with auto dealers / auto-sellers?

In short, Asperger adults can boost their advantage amongst NT agendas by enlisting advisors/advocates to be present during the process of negotiating, and purchasing "big-ticket" items such as automobiles, and even assistance in handling property transactions.

The following resources can serve as guidance in locating advisors/advocates:

* Asperger meetup groups can be searched on www.meetup.com

* Many major Metro-regions may have something like an Aspergers society.

Get specifics on how, and where can such trustworthy people be found - what specific agencies recommend people (on a volunteer basis) to assist as advocates/advisors? Are many services affordable to most Asperger adults?

It’s possible that such trustworthy people would most-likely have careers in non-profit, and public service occupations e.g., Educators, as well as those who help special-needs people?

I think a major issue is that of money and this has been my struggle.

In my opinion, Americans equate independence and worth with "having a career".

My health issues prevent me from having a regular career and income so I am basically invisible in my society. The first thing people ask when they meet you is, "What do you do?" meaning "Where do you work?" Adults spend a lot of time discussing their jobs with each other. Even when I was working, I didn't want to talk about it in my spare time.

Now, I have to rely on others for my necessities. American society teaches us that this is wrong, even if we are relying on family members. It's a complete 180 degree view from my other heritages, which are Japanese and American Indian. But I don't currently reside in Asia, so that doesn't help me right now.

Even our "welfare" system tells people like me that we're worthless. "So, you are disabled through no fault of your own? Then you shall live in section 8 housing which is in the most violent part of the city and try to survive on your $600 per month disability benefit. Have a nice living this way until death finally claims you."

Because WP is a forum where the content is posted voluntarily by the members, there is no onus on anyone to post any specific thing relating to AS or anything else. If you are disappointed that there aren't enough of those threads to suit you, then start one. If people post in it, great. If they don't then they don't. You can't force the issue on people, you can only put the information you feel is important out there and hope that those who need it will find it.

Maybe you could compile a list of many different resources for people who are having trouble living independently and post it in one of the sticky threads if it's appropriate for one, or ask that it be made a sticky. That doesn't mean it will be made one, but if enough people are interested in your ideas or if they think it's information that needs to be up here, they will do it.

To tell you where I'm coming from, I wasn't dx'd until my 40s and by then I was married with kids. I grew up thinking I was weird, awkward, shy, all sorts of things like that but I never thought that there was something inherently wrong with me that made it much harder for me to learn to act like everyone else and do the things they did, so I worked very, very hard at it and I learned it. I do think that if I had been told back then, that I had AS and told how it effects people and what it can prevent you from doing, I would have felt defeated to begin with and never even tried, and especially never worked as hard as I did. I would still be living at home with my mother with a bunch of cats and no husband or kids. That's how my mind works, and I don't know if it's the AS that causes that or just my being pessimistic by nature, but I would have understood it that I would never be able to learn these things well enough to fit in, let alone to blend in completely with no difference and pass as NT. I'm telling you this because while I know it's very important to have the information out there for people who need it, I think it's just as important, or even more important, to emphasize that many times we can learn to adapt and fit in and adjust and change to a much greater extent than we think we can, or that others expect of us.

Of course because it's a spectrum, that means that some will be effected to a much greater extent than others and some will not be able to function independently no matter what, while others will be able to do it with little or no help, and all degrees of difference in between those two extremes. I guess I'm saying that I don't want people to see it and automatically assume "Oh, I have AS so I need every one of these services, I shouldn't try without them because I can't because I have AS" or "I shouldn't try to learn to adjust my issues to the wide world out there before I ask that they adjust their environment and behavior and expectations to me". Of course when someone needs that adjustment to be made, it should be made, right away and without complaints, but I'm afraid that this generation of people coming of age with AS is being taught the mindset of "They have to accommodate you and you don't have to put yourself out to change for them if it's uncomfortable" I certainly don't think this is true of everyone, but I see quite a few who seem to feel like they should have to make no extra effort nor any attempt to work harder than others to achieve the same results.

I'll get off my soapbox about that now. As I said earlier in the post, you have this thread started, maybe people will respond. It might also be good to put your information up on this thread too about what may be needed and where and how it can be gotten.

Good luck.

Thank-you for your responses in this thread. I sense it's best to refrain from debating (and splitting hairs) regarding the content of my posts in this thread.....'On Independence.'

What would probably boost the discussion of assisting Asperger adults with independence is for agencies such as GRASP.ORG, AASCEND.ORG, the Aspergers Society, and many others is to have an active presence on WrongPlanet.

Specific agencies that are "ahead of the curve" on helping Aspergers adults in providing advocacy and advisors represent what is concrete & tangible; hence discussions (and action plans) to boost independence would have that gravitas (for lack of a better word) in reassessing independence here on WrongPlanet.

The discussion 'How to Thrive as a Special Needs Family and Community' on the main WrongPlanet.net page is an awesome thread that "hits the nail on the head" regarding support services!

Again, can specific entities, advocacy, etc. please contribute to discussions on just what would boost the special needs community?

Thank-you

Five, just reading the threads that you reference, this would be difficult to assemble. The skill sets you're looking for, particularly with anything involving managing people's finances, are not all that common, and have liability issues.

That said, I would love to have a discussion of how to market the skills of Aspies.