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paolo
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31 Dec 2008, 10:18 am

Livni is the probable next prime minister of Israel. She must win over Netanyahu in the next general election. And this is one reason for the tough stance. All important politicians in Israel have a background of Mossad work. Livni has been 4 years in Paris to participate in the hunting down (killing) of Palestinian "terrorists" or, if you prefer "freedom fighters". In one occasion she invited at a restaurant an Arab who was killed by poison during the meal (it was the aim of the meal). Now she supports the bloody crack down in Gaza. She has two children: when she comes home she probably hugs or kisses them. How can she reconcile her maternal affection with this sight?
http://electronicintifada.net/artman2/u ... aug483.jpg
And if she was her child?
This problem probably concerns many politicians, warriors and world leaders, so to put this questione is a little naïve, though for a mother? Or a woman? They organize massacres, then go home and embrace their kids and caresss the dog. You expect tenderness from mothers. What happens in their brain? I cannot well figure out this situations. But I am a fool.


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YowlingCat
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31 Dec 2008, 8:46 pm

Paolo, some of us aren't maternal at all. We're just human, and some are capable of anything that a human can do. I've no doubt that female warriors have wreaked havoc of the worst kind.



Apatura
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31 Dec 2008, 9:06 pm

While not all Jews believe this, it is part of Jewish doctrine that non-Jews are not as fully human as Jews. There are four levels of life in Judaism: inanimate objects, vegetation, animals, and humans. Non-jews are considered on the level of animals.

For instance there are arguments in the Talmud about whether or not a Jew needs to wash his hands after visiting the grave of a gentile. Ritual uncleanliness is acquired from touching the grave of a Jew, but not of an animal. If the non-Jew is considered on the level of an animal, the ritual uncleanliness is not transmitted, so no need to wash hands.

There is even an allusion to this in the Bible-- when the gentile woman tells Jesus "even the dogs gather the crumbs from under the children's table." "Dog" here means gentile and the "children" are Jews.

Even if not all Jews actually believe this, the "lesser" status on non-Jews is deeply endemic in Judaism, it is an apartheid worldview. Liberal Jews will exhaustively attempt apologetics for this apartheid but no matter how it is sugar-coated, it is apartheid and racism. There is even a passage in Sanhedrin (in the Talmud) stating that saving a single Jewish life is tantamount to saving the entire world.

So the simple meaning is... the lives of the non-Jews don't matter as much as the Jewish ones (according to this worldview). So dead Arabs are chaff to be swept aside for the chosen people. This is how you can have a woman imbibed with racism and apartheid willing to smash and take lives for her people.

I write all the above as someone who converted to Judaism, and who technically still is Jewish... though I stopped practicing when it hit me what a racist religion Judaism is.

(And I am fully aware that Judaism isn't the only religion with problems.)



sartresue
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01 Jan 2009, 9:26 pm

Apatura wrote:
While not all Jews believe this, it is part of Jewish doctrine that non-Jews are not as fully human as Jews. There are four levels of life in Judaism: inanimate objects, vegetation, animals, and humans. Non-jews are considered on the level of animals.

For instance there are arguments in the Talmud about whether or not a Jew needs to wash his hands after visiting the grave of a gentile. Ritual uncleanliness is acquired from touching the grave of a Jew, but not of an animal. If the non-Jew is considered on the level of an animal, the ritual uncleanliness is not transmitted, so no need to wash hands.

There is even an allusion to this in the Bible-- when the gentile woman tells Jesus "even the dogs gather the crumbs from under the children's table." "Dog" here means gentile and the "children" are Jews.

Even if not all Jews actually believe this, the "lesser" status on non-Jews is deeply endemic in Judaism, it is an apartheid worldview. Liberal Jews will exhaustively attempt apologetics for this apartheid but no matter how it is sugar-coated, it is apartheid and racism. There is even a passage in Sanhedrin (in the Talmud) stating that saving a single Jewish life is tantamount to saving the entire world.

So the simple meaning is... the lives of the non-Jews don't matter as much as the Jewish ones (according to this worldview). So dead Arabs are chaff to be swept aside for the chosen people. This is how you can have a woman imbibed with racism and apartheid willing to smash and take lives for her people.

I write all the above as someone who converted to Judaism, and who technically still is Jewish... though I stopped practicing when it hit me what a racist religion Judaism is.

(And I am fully aware that Judaism isn't the only religion with problems.)


Human strain topic

Balderdash. What you wrote is not a practice of any religion. But this is why many humans are atheists, agnostics and nontheists, confusing feelings of personal supremacy with genuine religious principles and practice.


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graemephillips
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11 Feb 2009, 10:07 am

paolo wrote:
Livni is the probable next prime minister of Israel. She must win over Netanyahu in the next general election. And this is one reason for the tough stance. All important politicians in Israel have a background of Mossad work. Livni has been 4 years in Paris to participate in the hunting down (killing) of Palestinian "terrorists" or, if you prefer "freedom fighters". In one occasion she invited at a restaurant an Arab who was killed by poison during the meal (it was the aim of the meal). Now she supports the bloody crack down in Gaza. She has two children: when she comes home she probably hugs or kisses them. How can she reconcile her maternal affection with this sight?
http://electronicintifada.net/artman2/u ... aug483.jpg
And if she was her child?
This problem probably concerns many politicians, warriors and world leaders, so to put this questione is a little naïve, though for a mother? Or a woman? They organize massacres, then go home and embrace their kids and caresss the dog. You expect tenderness from mothers. What happens in their brain? I cannot well figure out this situations. But I am a fool.


So? I don't assume that all men who take part in secret service assassinations are childless either. If I were a father, I would willingly sacrifice my own life for my own children, but if I were in the secret services, I would have little hesitation in carrying out assassinations of terrorists who kill innocent people if I were given the orders to do so from above.



Greentea
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17 Feb 2009, 11:38 am

Well said.

Although I voted Netanyahu.


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graemephillips
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17 Feb 2009, 12:25 pm

Greentea wrote:
Well said.

Although I voted Netanyahu.


I've just been doing some reading on Tzipi Livni. Her assassination work took place before she married and had children, thereby rendering the statement about the contradiction between her Mossad and maternal instincts invalid. However, a strange contradiction is that she took part in these assassinations, but she has been a vegetarian since the age of 12. Maybe she is a vegetarian because she doesn't like the taste of meat, but many vegetarians become that way because they don't like the fact that animals die to make meat for human consumption.